Skriking in front of officials or lawyers, (,..., let's stick to what turned into happy tears)

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
South of Manchester, UK
Anyone been guilty of "Skriking", (essentially weeping, or uttering incomprehensible sounds due to emotions overflowing), in front of an official or lawyer?

(I have recently btw, emotional fellow that I am, though you might not realise it!!!).

Probably best to stick to what turned into "happy tears", to avoid this thread becoming too traumatic for anyone. :)
 
Yes, I've made a fool of myself on many occasions! Can't think of exact moments right now, but yes.

I thought you were an emotional guy, I did realize it before. Me too. Maybe we're born this way, our paths are set.
 
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JonSR77 said:
best of luck...
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Do you think I'd better get all my ducks in a row, and be ready to kick up a stink to get my way, (or will I just be shown the door doing that,...., I'm too polite to attempt it perhaps, though there is some serios mickey taking going on here, with a large bill attached :eek::oops::cautious::censored: !).
 
grahamg said:
Do you think I'd better get all my ducks in a row, and be ready to kick up a stink to get my way, (or will I just be shown the door doing that,...., I'm too polite to attempt it perhaps, though there is some serios mickey taking going on here, with a large bill attached :eek::oops::cautious::censored: !).
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never trust lawyers or politicians or government officials.

And I absolutely do not mean that in any joking kind of way.

do as much research as possible, be prepared for anything.



if you want to offer a complaint, best to do it through a large, existing organization. And not place yourself out a limb where some nasty official might try to be retaliatory towards you. In my experience, plenty of these people are petty, corrupt and vindictive.

By all means, be very careful.
 
JonSR77 said:
never trust lawyers or politicians or government officials.. And I absolutely do not mean that in any joking kind of way, do as much research as possible, be prepared for anything.
if you want to offer a complaint, best to do it through a large, existing organization. And not place yourself out a limb where some nasty official might try to be retaliatory towards you. In my experience, plenty of these people are petty, corrupt and vindictive. By all means, be very careful.
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"Still in the game" I'm able to report, (though a very close run thing and very far from out of the woods yet!).
My mates have been called upon, to give a bit of advice, and not entirely sure how uch influence they've got either, but I'm asking them to do whatever they can to assist in that regard too! :oops::oops:o_O;)
 
Legal job isn't going anymore smoothly, especially as 24hrs ago I was given an ultimatum to come up with a considerable sum (I do not believe can be justified at all, and want reviewing by another legal expert), or else my lawyer will jettison me as a client!!!

At the very last moment I telephoned their accounts department and suggested making a smaller payment than the one demanded allowing more time for this review, and the young woman on the other end of the telephone said she would take the payment, though could not guarantee it would persuade the lawyer in charge to grant an extension to the time limit, and in those circumstances I declined the make any further payments, so she put the telephone down upon me would you believe, (and wouldn't wait until I'd tried to contact the senior lawyer)!

If you ever wondered how much you're valued as a client by our legal representative who keeps telling you how much your interests mean to them, then you now know all they really care about is the Dollars, or other currency you may generate for their businesses,! :rolleyes:
 
The goings on yesterday needs more thought, with the accounts lady unwilling to listen, or even try to think of alternative ways forward, other than my complying with what I truly believe is a completely unsustainable position taken up by experienced lawyers, (as has happened before, even in my limited or fairly recent experience with another firm of lawyers, who only backed down after five weeks of stonewalling once the top man at the large firm was involved!).

Another day of legal mayhem ahead hey, or more stonewalling by a second firm, (where is a Perry Mason figure when you need him? :) ).
 
I had a message from the experienced lawyer above I feel I can post for you word for word, (all anonymised of course).

The only explanation for the rambling nature of it I can come up with is overindulgence on a Friday afternoon "business meeting", (you know, the kind once held at a famous address in central London, that's caused so much trouble recently! :) ).


I'll be back, (as Arnie once said).
 
Here goes, I hope you can make sense of what is being said abd by whom):

I note that you have not confirmed that you are in a position to pay the outstanding fees nor make the payment on account as requested by me in my email dated 20 April 2022. You have requested an extension of time but you do not confirm if that extension of time is to allow you to make the full payment requested by me.
(I do not yet know how long another lawyer I’ve approached needs to assess the bill you say is due, and you are incorrect in the assertions or assumptions about my financial position so they have no need to raise the issue, and I provided them with some evidence to them recently of my previous lawyers saying in their belief I always paid bills reasonably presented to me!)

Further, I understand that you telephoned a member of the accounts department staff yesterday afternoon.
(True)

You said you were phoning to pay **** (approximately $1,000) towards the amount due.
(True, but under certain conditions)

However, you said that that was on the basis that I phoned you to discuss matters.
(False, not under this condition, merely that the lawyer I’d asked to assess the bill be given the time they said they needed to do so)

Our accounts dept staff member advised you that they could not guarantee that I would call you.
(My recollection is I said I would try to telephone you, and I asked whether the accounts staff would remain at work to take payment, should the experienced lawyer grant the extension of time I’d guessed might be adequate – i.e. one week)

You then stated that you had spoken with your bank and the police.
(True and False: I stated I had spoken to my bank, and asked whether they could approach you to ask for an extension of the time permitted to assess your bill, and never mentioned the police at all, nor can I imagine why I might have wished to!)

You said that they considered that you were a “vulnerable adult” and that they (the bank and the police) were looking to claim back all the monies that you had paid to our firm of lawyers.
(True and false again, obviously the mentioning of the word police is a figment of the imagination of their accounts dept staff member, and yes I was put through to a bank person in Scotland who assists vulnerable adults because of my age they told me and maybe because I’d mentioned blubbing when I met the experienced lawyer as described in OP, and the possible reclaiming of monies bit only comes into effect so far as the bank is concerned have ceased acting for me, and then only crtain circumstances, such as when I claim the experienced lawyes started doing work I had not asked them to do etc.)

The accounts dept staff member then stated that, given what you had told them, they would not take the payment of which you apparently wished to make.
(False, they stated they would take payment but not on condition there was an extension of the time limit, and in those circumstances I withdrew the offer to make any payment at all because there was no point, given they kept asserting the full outstanding amount must be paid regardless of anything else)

It seems clear to me that do not intend to make the payment as requested by me in my email dated 20 April and, in fact, you may be seeking to recover monies already paid in respect of fees incurred and paid to our legal firm.
(It seems clear to me that this experienced lawyer, and the team around them only appear to hear whatever it might be they guess I think or have said or they might speculate upon, and do not listen generally)

In these circumstances, I am not prepared to agree the extension of time as requested by you.
(I see)

However, in order to allow you one last opportunity to arrange payment of the requested amount in full (approximately $10,000)) we are prepared to extend the time for payment to 5pm on Monday 25 April. If payment is not received as requested then I am afraid that our firm will cease acting for you in respect of this matter.
(Oh, I see you do wish to make an extension of time, but giving another deadline (the third), that those reputable professionals trying to assess your bill/bills, and assist me in understanding everything that is both unrealistic and unfair, and smacks of a “constructive dismissal situation”)
 
On the legal front my next steps are likely to be these.

1). I am going to lay out my position to the experienced lawyer in some detail, (whether they desire this or not?)?
2). I am going to suggest setting very short deadlines for payments in full to be made, and demanding it is only them that I speak to should I have object to a bill looks like "constructive dismissal" in my view, and is unreasonable.
3). No one from their company apolologising for any of the failings I've had to try to put up with, and they have partially acknowledged by making very small amendments to one of their many bills run up in a relatively short period, is a serious failing on their part, and they will be told this.
4). Going behind a clients back to a former firm of lawyers, and never fully explaining why there was the need to do this when they did, could be interpreted as not just a mistake but something more serious, (and showing no curiosity to discover the whereabouts of seemingly missing documents is slightly suspicious too).
5). No one from their company being made available to discuss my objections to their bill is more than unhelpful, and no one choosing to try to speak to me in anything other than a hectoring manner is unhelpful and unjust, as I do not seek to evade cost properly incurred.
6). Running up a bill crafting instructions to get proceedings going that are for maybe five times the amount it costs for the guy they're supposed to be instructing to do their work is ridiculous, and every other avenue should have been persued before allowing this to happen, (like following the clients simple instructions, or issuing a set of instruction I'd crafted myself and sent to them in January for example).
7). I may inform them their behaviour has been the subject of an anonymised discussion between good people over fifty across the world!! :)
 
"Big day", (yet another!), is here, and I do think sending my lawyer a link to this forum (/thread), is in order!
I've had another possible offer of assistance from someone trained in accountancy, (through my local church), so this is heart warming obviously.

I've still got another firm of accountants I've been introduced to by an old rugby union playing teammate to go yo if necessary, and there's time to get to speak to them, and get their response to this outstanding bill. :)
 
Can I ask why I'm failing to generate any interest on this thread, or is it maybe too hot a topic to handle in some way. :( ?)?

Oh, and before you ask, I am okay, (my "miracle" being I had to visit the local hospital yesterday, meaning I couldn't address those legal issues hanging over my head, though the stress of them almost undoubtedly played a part the doctor said).

The medical trouble, well as its not very nice to talk about I wont, though all fine again now, so I don't need to go into details anyway, (the doctor saying these things come with age to give you a clue, and of course advised me to get a review through my local doctors surgery, as I'm due to do anyway).
 
Hope you are okay now Graham. I was going to comment on the "Karen" reference made by a poster earlier on, which, as with any derogatory name calling, I find offensive but, I decided not to bring that up as I don't want to derail your thread because, of course, I am always a polite and respectful poster. :)

Hey, see what I just did there ;):D
 
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Getting back to your legal woes. You instructed solicitors to represent you in a legal matter, things did not work out so you transferred your case to another solicitor who then obtained information from your previous solicitors which you had specifically asked them not to do and which you intended to disclose to them yourself and this led to a situation of mistrust and protracted dialogue and, as a result, you appear to have become a complainant rather than a client and now your solicitors have presented you with what you consider an unreasonable bill. Is that correct so far?

Assuming it is, have they provided you with an itemised bill of costs showing how the charge was calculated?

If they have, have you gone through it and are you able to off-set any of it as time spent dealing with your complaints rather than your actual case?

P.S. Try not to weep or utter incomprehensible sounds when dealing with an official or a partner, it's just not a good look:(
 
Thanks for the above, and yes to most of it, and while I'm thinking what to say in response more than that there has been a seemingly positive development, as the top man at this firm of lawyers has become involved, and says a review is being carried out from their side, (so they have not yet dispensed with me as a client).

Okay, stop blubbing, not a good look etc., but when you're as soft as me "what can you do"!:)

However, not giving in over said bill, when almost all individuals from this firm of lawyers had been seemingly doing everything in their power to force me to capitulate to their will, shows a certain amount of strength doesn't it, (maybe a bit of my mothers "grit and dogged determination", my mother once told a farming neighbour she was full of, when dealing with the obstacles in her life :) ).
 
Lawyer speak: "The accounts dept staff member then stated that, given what you had told them, they would not take the payment of which you apparently wished to make."
Graham speak: (False, they stated they would take payment but not on condition there was an extension of the time limit, and in those circumstances I withdrew the offer to make any payment at all because there was no point, given they kept asserting the full outstanding amount must be paid regardless of anything else)
Em speak: What else could you reasonably do? It's them saying "We'll take whatever you can pay now, but it won't make any difference because the full amount must still be paid by our deadline." That is not negotiating in good faith. Not knowing the circumstances makes it difficult to respond. I do question whether you have any assets they can take (or are worth their trouble to take) if/when they sue you.
In the USA, if you have nothing that they can legally take, you can walk away from the debt. It will ding your credit rating and you may have to pay taxes on the forgiven/written off debt. But, if this applies to you, it would probably be far less stressful. (I am not a lawyer, so take what I am saying as opinion, not fact!)
 
Em in Ohio said:
Lawyer speak: "The accounts dept staff member then stated that, given what you had told them, they would not take the payment of which you apparently wished to make."
Graham speak: (False, they stated they would take payment but not on condition there was an extension of the time limit, and in those circumstances I withdrew the offer to make any payment at all because there was no point, given they kept asserting the full outstanding amount must be paid regardless of anything else)
Em speak: What else could you reasonably do? It's them saying "We'll take whatever you can pay now, but it won't make any difference because the full amount must still be paid by our deadline." That is not negotiating in good faith. Not knowing the circumstances makes it difficult to respond. I do question whether you have any assets they can take (or are worth their trouble to take) if/when they sue you.
In the USA, if you have nothing that they can legally take, you can walk away from the debt. It will ding your credit rating and you may have to pay taxes on the forgiven/written off debt. But, if this applies to you, it would probably be far less stressful. (I am not a lawyer, so take what I am saying as opinion, not fact!)
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I've not incurred debt I can't cover, so the issue here is whether the lawyers stubbornly refusing to accept my position as to what they were being asked to do, means the subsequent sorting out of the mess they'd created is fully my responsibility or not, (or even partly my responsibility you could argue, though clearly I must have done something wrong, if it were only choosing the wrong firm of lawyers, and therefore showing bad judgement)?
They did make minor adjustments to a previous bill of about 10%, and they say there is a 5% or 10% reduction to this one, but excuse confusion about this as an even larger amount was asserted I owed in last message from experienced lawyer. This is a message I have not responded to yet, though will have a go today, strengthened by the top man getting involved, and maybe some advice from another firm I telephoned yesterday, (who may assist me FOC to start with I hope).
 
grahamg said:
Thanks for the above, and yes to most of it, and while I'm thinking what to say in response more than that there has been a seemingly positive development, as the top man at this firm of lawyers has become involved, and says a review is being carried out from their side, (so they have not yet dispensed with me as a client).

Okay, stop blubbing, not a good look etc., but when you're as soft as me "what can you do"!:)

However, not giving in over said bill, when almost all individuals from this firm of lawyers had been seemingly doing everything in their power to force me to capitulate to their will, shows a certain amount of strength doesn't it, (maybe a bit of my mothers "grit and dogged determination", my mother once told a farming neighbour she was full of, when dealing with the obstacles in her life :) ).
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Going on your postings here, you seem an intelligent person which is probably your best tool when dealing with adversaries. It does indeed show both strength and determination.

It is good that someone higher up has taken an interest in the situation and hopefully that will lead to a good resolution for you. (y)
 
Trish said:
Going on your postings here, you seem an intelligent person which is probably your best tool when dealing with adversaries. It does indeed show both strength and determination.

It is good that someone higher up has taken an interest in the situation and hopefully that will lead to a good resolution for you. (y)
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You think so, (I'mas thick as a brick really, though my mother used to say "my brains are never wasted, when I didn't seem to be using them too well - though I dont think she meant it in the way I've recorded it, and hopefully I am maybe doing a bit better with "my brains" than previously!! đź‘Ś).
 
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