Social and cultural upheaval

With the help of AI and social media people can invent there own video's and pictures, and posts that have nothing to do with factual info. The cloud is filled with info that is fiction. Jesus said "What is truth?" 2000 yrs ago. Now it is an accepted reality for many. I think we need to turn off our belief button. :)
 

VaughanJB said:
Oh, I see. It's another one of those conspiratorial things, is it? I'll add it to the list.

So, no-ones saying it. No-one is doing it. No-one has ever said they want to do it. There is no evidence they are doing it. So therefore, they clearly are. They're doing it secretly. Because, you know, that's how winning elections work.

Guns? Same thing. No-one has put a policy out stating they want to take them away. No guns have been taken away. No-one is putting it forward as a policy for the future. And since the very beginning of the United States it's never been done. So OF COURSE that's their secret agenda.

OR - these things are used by people on the Right to keep others scared and in fear of the other side. By throwing out outrageous statements, with trigger words and threats attached, those among us who prefer the knee-jerk reaction to a more reasoned approach will feel attacked and they will panic and throw aside common sense. It's simply a way to control a group of people. Nothing new about it.

As for enlightenment, well, for some the term only applies if what they think they've found is some conspiracy or other. There are simply too many conspiracies going around these days, I demand at least a spec of evidence and believability. YMMV.

I"m afraid on this one, get back to me when someone actually has it as a policy. I'm not much interested in insinuation, speculation, and what ifs.
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And there it is right there....
The Left always want 'evidence that supports their agenda' only.
You will not accept anything that doesn't come from CNN, MSNBC, or other Left Wing media outlet.
Like others, you choose not to educate yourself in anything other to validate your beliefs.

I could take exerpts out of Saul Alinskys books, or Karl Marx, and paste them here. But your response is; "ya, but Saul is dead".. What does that have to do with anything.
No, I refuse to educate you, that is not my job. I talk facts, you talk only what your filter lets you believe.
Sad actually, there are many folks not wanting to be educated outside other than validating what they are told by the biased media.
That is what Americans is fighting for, the soul of the country, while others are ok with letting it be tore down by putting blinders on.
 
Sippican said:
And there it is right there....
The Left always want 'evidence that supports their agenda' only.
You will not accept anything that doesn't come from CNN, MSNBC, or other Left Wing media outlet.
Like others, you choose not to educate yourself in anything other to validate your beliefs.

I could take exerpts out of Saul Alinskys books, or Karl Marx, and paste them here. But your response is; "ya, but Saul is dead".. What does that have to do with anything.
No, I refuse to educate you, that is not my job. I talk facts, you talk only what your filter lets you believe.
Sad actually, there are many folks not wanting to be educated outside other than validating what they are told by the biased media.
That is what Americans is fighting for, the soul of the country, while others are ok with letting it be tore down by putting blinders on.
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What is this "Left" nonsense? Boy, oh boy. Weren't you the guy who claims to be in the middle politically? You're having a giraffe. You're clutching at straws in an effort to denigrate ab opposing view. It's a well known practice, and it's never convincing.
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
You must never follow any news but CNN and The Washington Post. ATF just tried to pass a rule that would ban firearms people already legally owned and did you entirely miss that horrid woman that just decided to ban all guns in Albuquerque? You just choosing to bury your head in the sand. Fun fact: Hitler took their guns first.
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I must follow? I've already stated, I don't watch ANY TV. Not for the news, not for the comedy. I don't even own a TV, which I've stated previously. So, if your assessment is that I "must" watch/read mainstream news on CNN and/MSBNC, then you're 100% wrong. I also note, it's unlikely to be a coincidence that both you and Sippican use the very same channels as a put down. You guys having a chat outside the forum, are we? :D



Here's my message in response to the both of you.

When it comes to this topic, we're done here. Nothing new is being introduced, you guys are just circling the drain. I have stated the facts of the matter - yes FACTS - from both the medical community and issues with mental health. As is usual with these types of things, you have failed to address any of it, instead giving opinions which you claim to be facts. They're not.

But here's what is in my mind. Senior Forum is a place people come to have fun, and to exchange opinions. Back and forth posts, over a short period, can be both entertaining and informative. But as soon as it simply becomes a tit-for-tat with nothing new being added, they can be tiresome. I think this discussion between the three of us have indeed, worn out its welcome. I can't imagine others want to be reading this stuff.

I do not believe you are adding anything new, you're right-fighting. We disagree on this topic, and I'm okay with that. I think it's been well established.

So - if you want to continue a back and forth, please take it to PM. That way we can continue, without clogging up the forum. If you choose not to do that, then know I won't be posting to you on the topic again, on the public forum. Not because you've achieved anything, but for the good of the board. I'll see you in PM's, or not.
 

Paco Dennis said:
With the help of AI and social media people can invent there own video's and pictures, and posts that have nothing to do with factual info. The cloud is filled with info that is fiction. Jesus said "What is truth?" 2000 yrs ago. Now it is an accepted reality for many. I think we need to turn off our belief button. :)
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A religious belief relies on "faith". It requires a belief in the supernatural, but not in the literal meaning, but instead in the sense of say, Lord of the Rings, with wizards, ghosts, and magic. You're correct, many people subscribe to such a belief. I've always thought that if one can believe in God, then there isn't much you can't believe. Taking the Bible in its totality, just about every but of the Marvel franchise is covered. :D

ps: I do not intend to mock peoples belief, I know for many their faith is very very important to them, and I do try to respect that.
 
VaughanJB said:
What is this "Left" nonsense? Boy, oh boy. Weren't you the guy who claims to be in the middle politically? You're having a giraffe. You're clutching at straws in an effort to denigrate ab opposing view. It's a well known practice, and it's never convincing.


I must follow? I've already stated, I don't watch ANY TV. Not for the news, not for the comedy. I don't even own a TV, which I've stated previously. So, if your assessment is that I "must" watch/read mainstream news on CNN and/MSBNC, then you're 100% wrong. I also note, it's unlikely to be a coincidence that both you and Sippican use the very same channels as a put down. You guys having a chat outside the forum, are we? :D



Here's my message in response to the both of you.

When it comes to this topic, we're done here. Nothing new is being introduced, you guys are just circling the drain. I have stated the facts of the matter - yes FACTS - from both the medical community and issues with mental health. As is usual with these types of things, you have failed to address any of it, instead giving opinions which you claim to be facts. They're not.

But here's what is in my mind. Senior Forum is a place people come to have fun, and to exchange opinions. Back and forth posts, over a short period, can be both entertaining and informative. But as soon as it simply becomes a tit-for-tat with nothing new being added, they can be tiresome. I think this discussion between the three of us have indeed, worn out its welcome. I can't imagine others want to be reading this stuff.

I do not believe you are adding anything new, you're right-fighting. We disagree on this topic, and I'm okay with that. I think it's been well established.

So - if you want to continue a back and forth, please take it to PM. That way we can continue, without clogging up the forum. If you choose not to do that, then know I won't be posting to you on the topic again, on the public forum. Not because you've achieved anything, but for the good of the board. I'll see you in PM's, or not.
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Wait, you think its just two of us?
Look at the responses to your 'opinions'...its not just us.
You are right, it is tiresome to try to talk rational dialog with someone that refuses to educate themselves on a topic.

Please, do not respond.....well, it won't matter, I won't see it.
 
VaughanJB said:
A religious belief relies on "faith". It requires a belief in the supernatural, but not in the literal meaning, but instead in the sense of say, Lord of the Rings, with wizards, ghosts, and magic. You're correct, many people subscribe to such a belief. I've always thought that if one can believe in God, then there isn't much you can't believe. Taking the Bible in its totality, just about every but of the Marvel franchise is covered. :D

ps: I do not intend to mock peoples belief, I know for many their faith is very very important to them, and I do try to respect that.
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And you said you were done, yet here you are again.....:ROFLMAO:
 
VaughanJB said:
A religious belief relies on "faith". It requires a belief in the supernatural, but not in the literal meaning, but instead in the sense of say, Lord of the Rings, with wizards, ghosts, and magic. You're correct, many people subscribe to such a belief. I've always thought that if one can believe in God, then there isn't much you can't believe. Taking the Bible in its totality, just about every but of the Marvel franchise is covered. :D

ps: I do not intend to mock peoples belief, I know for many their faith is very very important to them, and I do try to respect that.
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If you aren't intending to mock people's beliefs by comparing their most holy book to Marvel comics I wonder just what you are intending. It really doesn't make much sense anyway. Marvel came thousands of years after the Bible so if there's any similarity it's because Marvel is copying, but I can't think of any similarity. Where are the super-heroes with stretchy arms and the ability to fly in the Bible?
 
Della said:
If you aren't intending to mock people's beliefs by comparing their most holy book to Marvel comics I wonder just what you are intending. It really doesn't make much sense anyway. Marvel came thousands of years after the Bible so if there's any similarity it's because Marvel is copying, but I can't think of any similarity. Where are the super-heroes with stretchy arms and the ability to fly in the Bible?
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I intended it only as a contemporary comparison, not to mock. I was referring to people with special powers, impossible actions, wars, and amazing otherworldly abilities, and so on. Nothing more. I never meant to suggest the Bible got anything from Marvel. :D

I also specifically wrote: "I do not intend to mock peoples belief, I know for many their faith is very very important to them, and I do try to respect that." to avoid any misunderstandings.
 
chic said:
This is what's sad to me. We're so divided now over issues. I believe that was the plan all along because together, united, we would have the strength and numbers to change things for the better. :unsure:
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Unfortunately, this forum is a slice of life. Good, bad, indifferent.
With such division at the core of humanity these days, its no wonder that it spills over into all aspects of our lives.
I think our disagreements go beyond just 'issues', but to the fundamentals of how we go forward as a society here in the US.
I think education(or lack thereof) is at the root of where our problems began.
If we would just take some time and investigate beyond the evening news cycle and really dig into topics that affect all of us, we would be in a much better place as a society.
 
chic said:
This is what's sad to me. We're so divided now over issues. I believe that was the plan all along because together, united, we would have the strength and numbers to change things for the better. :unsure:
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Do you have any ideas on who is making the plan? I know of this theory, and I can't figure it out. The Bilderberg Group? The 1%?
 
Paco Dennis said:
Do you have any ideas on who is making the plan? I know of this theory, and I can't figure it out. The Bilderberg Group? The 1%?
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Personally, I don't believe it's something anyone planned. It's the birth of Social Media that is causing it. From the relative inanity, to the cliques and echo chambers that give the illusion of popularity, it's just far too easy to speak (write) without thinking, imo. Then you have pushes in all areas toward extremism, and you suddenly find yourself with no venue for intelligent dialog.

Does it matter that someone disagrees on a topic? On any topic? Yet some people personally invest and right-fight over things they have no control over. A whole lot of people are seeking affirmation for whatever they believe. At the end of the day, it's the internet, and more to the point the instant communication it presents, that causes a lot of it. IMO.
 
Paco Dennis said:
Do you have any ideas on who is making the plan? I know of this theory, and I can't figure it out. The Bilderberg Group? The 1%?
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Yes, you are right. Division amongst citizens has always been the plan for certain political parties. The goal is to be able to point to certain group to blame when situations become difficult.
Race, Gender, Economic status,Religion, Political affiliation, poor, wealthy......separation to distract from what is going on behind closed doors.
 
Paco Dennis said:
AI is advancing at an astronomical rate. We will not be able to get away from it. I am not even trying. AI is benign. It is the actors who make it do what it does. He who controls the "script" controls the world. :)
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I don't think it is anywhere near as advanced as commonly portrayed in the press. Of course what already exists can do plenty of damage in the wrong hands, mostly from relying on it. How soon before politicians and political factions use it as a scapegoat for their own failings?
 
Paco Dennis said:
AI is advancing at an astronomical rate. We will not be able to get away from it. I am not even trying. AI is benign. It is the actors who make it do what it does. He who controls the "script" controls the world. :)
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I think this is the hearty of the issue. We tend to think of such things as procedural, step by step, doing what it is programmed to do. That's not what AI does, it's self-learning. There's a very dated movie from 1970 that covers it quite well (albeit, as I say, a Sci-Fi movie made more that 50 years ago). It's called Colossus: The Forbin Project. It tells the story of a system that becomes sentient. If you like old movies, it's a decent watch.
 
dilettante said:
I don't think it is anywhere near as advanced as commonly portrayed in the press. Of course what already exists can do plenty of damage in the wrong hands, mostly from relying on it. How soon before politicians and political factions use it as a scapegoat for their own failings?
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Well, look at what they do based on Social Media posts, and polling data already! When popularity replaces doing the right thing, you can get in a big pickle.
 
boliverchadsworth said:
Any folks, like me, seem to agree that there is a decided and obvious downturn in our culture since say the 50's by decade up until the present ?

Freedoms - abuse of power - lying incompetent
leaders, politicians ..trusted entities etc - not just the U.S. -but other major and minor countries as well?

OR- is my tin foil hat on too tight today?-

It is difficult for me, to be enthusiastic about our chances of escaping and being better off-

George Carlin, ten or so years ago seem to have a pretty good grip on it. At least looking back on it.
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and now, seems like we are going to be pulled into an unimaginable - probably much bigger and dangerous for everyone on earth future..simply look ahead and the outcome is predictable - but to what extent? ..nuclear seems plausible to me. and Gaza like attacks on u.s. cities--( I assume they are already here) for starters!!!! -
other than that...every thing is, gratefully, splendid for me today.--tomorrow seems iffy tho-
 
boliverchadsworth said:
and now, seems like we are going to be pulled into an unimaginable - probably much bigger and dangerous for everyone on earth future..simply look ahead and the outcome is predictable - but to what extent? ..nuclear seems plausible to me. and Gaza like attacks on u.s. cities--( I assume they are already here) for starters!!!! -
other than that...every thing is, gratefully, splendid for me today.--tomorrow seems iffy tho-
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I don't think it's as bad as all that. The war in Israel right now was predictable given the circumstances. And it's not the first time Russia has taken (or tried to) a piece of Ukraine. Obviously both are terrible, but this won't be the last war in the Middle East.

What is prevalent today is intolerance, and the mainstreaming of extremism. Society used to be concerned when someone had been radicalized, and it applied mainly to despots and revolutionaries. Not any more. The internet has helped extremism seep into every day politics in countries you'd of hoped would be immune. This is especially playing out in the US, and elsewhere to varying degrees.

Truth is, globally, working folk are feeling as though they're under attack. The rich have gotten richer to obscene degrees. The gap between the rich and poor is getting ever greater, and it's accelerating in the US and elsewhere - but faster in the US. People are squeezed, they have less money and therefore less freedom. We all caused some of it (for example by allowing horrendous amounts of money to get into politics by way of lobbying), which subverts the democratic process. We allowed elected officials to benefit from events (Chaney retired from Halliburton prior to taking office and got a severance package of $34m. Halliburton then went on to make $40bn from the Iraq war). And it's not a topic that is unique to either side of the aisle.

Still, I can't blame the internet for all of that, clearly groups of people are susceptible to extremist views, losing focus on what truly makes the US what it is today. The methods radicals use to radicalize others are well documented, and you see it all over the internet. (Not so) slowly and gradually, large numbers of people within all the great democracies (or republics, if you prefer) have been radicalized. The internet has meant identifying easy targets for radicalization, and creating groups of them, is far far easier than ever before. That's the moist dangerous thing going on right now. One radicalized, it can be a long journey back.
 
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As bad as division is, a system where one group of extremists has run the board and completely suppressed the voice of its opposition sounds worse to me. Of course consensus would be best, but that requires compromises nobody will stand for any more. Not the successful encroacher, and certainly not the encroached upon.
 
dilettante said:
As bad as division is, a system where one group of extremists has run the board and completely suppressed the voice of its opposition sounds worse to me. Of course consensus would be best, but that requires compromises nobody will stand for any more. Not the successful encroacher, and certainly not the encroached upon.
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You can't get consensus all the time. So what you're left with is simple respect for the individual. Different opinions are a good thing, it's part of how we learn. If we all thought alike, we'd be a very different place. But right-fighting is useless, because it rarely achieves anything. There is also a difference between discussing something, sharing views, and "winning" an argument. I think the board is about the former. We exchange views, but ultimately, given any topic, ought to be old enough to be able to accept that our own opinion is just that, and others can have valid reasons to feel differently.

Still, some topics are obviously more touchy than others: Healthcare, Guns, politics, religion, and apparently now, abortion. This is my list of "never discuss with an American" topics. :D
 

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