Soft drugs, hard drugs, national policies & programs

Me : Is marijuana in the United States considered a Schedule One drug by the FDA or DEA?
Pi : Yes, you're correct. Marijuana is currently classified as a Schedule One drug by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), which means that it is considered to have no medical value and a high potential for abuse. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has also not approved marijuana as a medicine.


Me : So it would be legal for the DEA to arrest people for marijuana possession.
Pi : Technically, yes. Since marijuana is still classified as a Schedule One drug at the federal level, the DEA has the authority to enforce federal laws and regulations related to its possession, use, and distribution. This means that the DEA could potentially arrest individuals for marijuana-related offenses, even in states where it is legal under state law.
 

In the name of compassion we are enabling people to ruin their lives. Neither tossing every user in jail nor allowing open use of dangerous drugs is a policy that makes sense.
 

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As far as any nation being drug free is a myth. Name a drug, and if you've got the money, it'll be delivered to your door in hours. Drug cartels are better run than Amazon.com. Plus anybody can come up with their own chemistry set. The point being we are attempting to stop something from happening when it's already alive and doing well. I don't know if drastic drug sentences do anything other than ramp up the violence. And it costs big bucks to keep a huge portion of the nation behind bars for many decades. What we're doing, obviously isn't working. The answer is way beyond my pay grade.
 
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fuzzybuddy said:
As far as any nation being drug free is a myth. Name a drug, and if you've got the money, it'll be delivered to your door in hours. Drug cartels are better run than Amazon.com. Plus anybody can come up with their own chemistry set. The point being we are attempting to stop something from happening when it's already alive and doing well.
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I agree. The reason I posted the OP was to learn if other members had knowledge about effective harm-reduction (individual & social) in countries other than Canada & the U.S. I'd like to learn.
 
JBR said:
I agree. The reason I posted the OP was to learn if other members had knowledge about effective harm-reduction (individual & social) in countries other than Canada & the U.S. I'd like to learn.
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Does this help?

THE GLOBAL STATE OF HARM REDUCTION 2022​

INTRODUCTION​

The Global State of Harm Reduction is the only report that provides an independent analysis of harm reduction in the world. Now in its the eighth edition, the Global State of Harm Reduction 2022 is the most comprehensive global mapping of harm reduction responses to drug use, HIV and viral hepatitis.

THIS EDITION INCLUDES:​

  • Forewords by UNAIDS Executive Director, Winnie Byanyima, and Ukranian community representative, Anton Basenko.
  • Data on the availability of safer smoking kits & stimulant pharmacotherapy, for the first time.
  • A chapter on the ongoing impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on harm reduction.
  • Data on the number of people who inject drugs and the number of people in prison for drug use globally.
  • Key legal/policy developments related to harm reduction and drug policy.
The Global State of Harm Reduction 2022 - Harm Reduction International
 
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In Canada we legalized pot and hash and edibles.

The Sun still came up the next day. It's been legal now for a long time, but I still haven't tried any of it. I prefer a cold light beer.
 
The OPs talks about weed legalization and then expands that to more general drug policies to...about how well the policies of other nations are working out."

The fact is there are majority numbers of we modern humans with little self control or common sense, that have relatively boring, uninteresting, unsatisfying lives. Outside of working most of their life to make enough money for them and for many dependents to survive, they don't amount to much. Just average Joes and Janes. Many are just boob tube watchers, food addicts, fattening up their bodies continually for the sake of food pleasuring, playing inane video games, regular seks, and reading, hearing, and watching famous others live their lives.

What else? Of course many drink booze and smoke nicotine cigarettes that to be honest is very much part of the same drug question. And even larger numbers daily dose themselves with coffee, tea, and caffeine soft drink beverages, and use prescription mood and neural drugs. Among those living in affluent Western nations, the numbers of totally drug free people that don't fit into the above categories is a minority.

The first time many such people have other pleasurable drug experiences, they are likely to consider changing their lives for the worse. That is what has in fact happened during my lifetime as policies and laws have eased. The easier laws and policies make access to such chemical substances, the more such people will become to more or less degree dependent on or worse addicted to. There is no way to stop demand. The only way to stop consumption is to block supplies. In this complex modern world as it now exists with world wide travel, global commercial shipping, open borders among myriad independent nations, that just ain't going to happen.

So is this situation fair? Is it good for humanity? Is there any hope that those many with some kind of monkey on their backs might be able to change? Does it even matter?

No, No, No, and No, that ship sailed long ago.
 
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I think one of the most overlooked causes of "illegal drugs" is the huge demand of the users. Without users, there would be no one to sell drugs to. You can't pass a law to make wanting drugs a crime. Also, I feel that "illegal drugs" isn't just gangs, but it is a business. There are actually 'brands' of drugs. One of the most respected brands is the 'smiley face' brand, :) . If there's a smiley face logo on your baggie, it's most probably good s**t.
Without demand, there's no drug trade. And the idea of keeping drugs out of the country is a quaint, outdated concept, because drugs are already here, and it's a thriving business. While there are anti drug laws, and drugs take a horrific toll, but people are human, and they do what they want to do. Law or no law.
 
Well, all I've wondered about is how is a country (or province, or state) is creatively & realistically managing their situation. How are pragmatic programs being put in place to minimize deaths, injury, theft (etc) & social damage. How have they evolved? Is there anything citizens of other countries can learn from?
 
Paco Dennis said:
Me : Is marijuana in the United States considered a Schedule One drug by the FDA or DEA?
Pi : Yes, you're correct. Marijuana is currently classified as a Schedule One drug by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), which means that it is considered to have no medical value and a high potential for abuse. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has also not approved marijuana as a medicine.


Me : So it would be legal for the DEA to arrest people for marijuana possession.
Pi : Technically, yes. Since marijuana is still classified as a Schedule One drug at the federal level, the DEA has the authority to enforce federal laws and regulations related to its possession, use, and distribution. This means that the DEA could potentially arrest individuals for marijuana-related offenses, even in states where it is legal under state law.
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21 U.S. Code § 878 - Powers of enforcement personnel

But the feds are not concerned about a person possessing a joint, etc.
 
Jules said:
When the sale of cannabis first became legal in 2019, the lineups were long! Basically, your average citizen wanting the products. For the many it meant no more dealing with back alley dealers and no confidence with your purchase. For the heavy experienced users, they continued on as usual. Stores on Indian Reserves sell for lower prices but the product isn’t controlled. Lots more cannabis stores were gradually opened and they are still in business. There’s a demand.

BC began their trial period of decriminalizing some hard drugs starting in Jan. 2023.
“allowing adults to possess small amounts of certain drugs — opioids, crack, cocaine, methamphetamine and MDMA — for personal use.”

Police weren’t interested in arresting people with small amounts prior to this, so this solved nothing. It had been a tool to deal with suspicious events. Users now openly carry and consume.

Another law was passed so drug consumption couldn’t happen in places like parks or near schools, etc. A judge overruled this. In theory, this was so users wouldn’t be stigmatized. The number of overdoses has gone up continually.
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Does Canada, I assume you are there, have the infrastructure to support drug addicts? If drugs are de-criminalized, do people have safe places to go when they are strung out?

Did CN base their drug models on any European models that are working well?

In CA, many illegal substances are de-facto legalized. Open use in certain parts of some cities with rare arrests, and if they are arrested the penalties have been relaxed to only misdeamenors. Those addicts live in tents. That's partly why there are 170,000 homeless people in CA. I think the estimate is that 1/4 to 1/3 of them are active addicts.

I don't want to support people in their drug addictions, but the real problem in 'Murica is that we don't support people when they are well either!!!! Being poor is not a crime, but 'Murica treats it like it is. No subsidizing housing available. Live on the street in a tent with the addicts.

So, does CN just hand every user a tent to live in?
 
VintageBetter, I wish I could supply a better, more accurate answer than I'll give here. This so far it's a constantly unsettled & changing situation. There are some gov't support systems in my province, but housing is a problem for indigent people. In fact, like most parts of the developed world, landlords are typically doing much better than renters. There are people who've long worked for a living who've wound up on the streets because their rent rate (along with food & other costs) has become too much.

Some low-cost housing is being built, but if a person has no steady work, few skills... and then is addicted too? Well it's pretty rough. I happen to live where there is no tent city, because a rural area like ours doesn't present the advantages that forming a tent camp near a large town or city presents.

I believe that a fair proportion of Canada's social safety net has been influenced by European models... I don't know to what degree the word "modeled (on)" would apply. But I'd guess that, worldwide, social-democratic academic & political types do pay attention to what's going on in other countries.

I was fortunate during my work life to have always had a roof over my head and food to eat, even though things were meager & it was sometimes difficult for me in my earliest employed years.
 
EmptyCup said:
Sadly, I have known people who have this exact thought every day. Not even counting many homeless who put this thought above all others.
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I'd guess those are physically addicted, so for them it might look like a choice, but in fact they're compelled to get drugs.

Paco Dennis said:
It's a complex/nuanced issue without perfect solutions.
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It is. I struggle with this, because if you truly think of it, the complexity is mind-bending.

On a base level, drugs are coming in from Mexico, much sourced from China. The US has a huge illegal gun business going the other way. In effect, the US is enabling the drug gangs to take control of vast regions, while Mexico ships back huge amounts of drugs.

The demand for drugs is just crazy. I'm talking taking a substance for recreation. There is a never ending and insatiable demand. From people who use alcohol, to weed, and on. Fully 10% of 16 to 59 years of age have taken recreational drugs in the past year (not including alcohol). Between 16 and 24 it jumps to more than 17% in the UK. And let's not forget, the weed of today is not the weed of yesterday - it's magnitudes of difference.

Now, in the US you have one key issue - there's no safety net. You crash in the US, you crash hard. You can have everything one day, and nothing the next. Be it a health crisis, losing a job, or some other incident, it can end your life economically. The number 1 and 2 reasons for personal bankruptcies in the US are health and job loss. When thinking of job loss, don't think of some guy and gal doing something dumb and getting fired. For example, in Houston, TX. there are many oil companies (as you'd expect). As the oil industry goes through its ups and downs, so jobs are shed or created. It's not unusual for there to be mass layoffs due to some crisis in the oil chain.

Jumping forward, if you had nowhere to sleep, no money for food, and no family to bail you out - what would you do? And once you've decided what you'd do, imagine it going on like that for a year or more. What if your only choice was to live on the street, and everyone around you is taking drugs - would you ever be tempted? It's really tough.

Personally, I want to be both hard, and soft with these people. I go very pro helping people in this predicament, but then read of horror shows where it's not worked out. I watch the videos about what's happening in Philadelphia and can't see a way to help people so far gone. So many can't be helped. Yet I'm uncomfortable with a society that's allowing it to continue, whilst knowing there are no easy answers.

I just know that the war on drugs is lost. Just say no means nothing today. Casual drug taking has been normalized. Continuing to do what we're doing isn't doing anyone any good. But I too often read people who put the blame entirely on the person on the street, and that doesn't sit right with me. Self-reflection is needed, we need to think about how this can happen in our society, and how it continues. In the end, we all own a part of it, imo.
 
Oddly enough, I am not affected by most drugs of the opioid class. I am allergic to Morphine, big time and nothing else touches me much. While I can be knocked out during surgery, believe it or not I wake up in the middle of it. Not funny. So, I stay away from such things. My big go to is an occasional glass of Irish Cream and that's like a baby malted.

My late daughter-in-law was much the same. Some genetic aberration I guess.
 
What always amazes me is that the US tried Prohibition in the 1920s. I didn't work. All the US did was create a criminal empire, disrespect for the law, and rot gut gin. Trying to save people from the evils of alcohol, Prohibition failed, because you can't save people from themselves. Now, we are trying to save people from the horrors of drug addiction, with our form of prohibition. It's not working. All we have created is a criminal empire, disrespect for the law, and homemade meth. You can't save people from themselves.
DUH!!!
 
I think we've all met people who have made a turnaround I their lives, saving themselves from themselves. Maybe on their own, maybe with the help of a 12-step program, or however. Intervention & assistance works sometimes, I'm sure.

If you ever watched the Ken Burns "Prohibition" documentary, the film's narrative pointed out there'd been a completely understandable longstanding movement among women to do something effective about alcohol & alcoholism. This was because of the collateral damage caused by a chronic-drunk husband/father... violence in the home. So the Volstead Act was passed as an attempt to solve such problems. And, hmm, unforeseen consequences.
 
So, is consumption of all non-medicinal drugs necessarily bad? For example is consumption of all caffeinated beverages a bad thing? How about drinking a minor amount of wine occasionally at social celebrations? Or a beer once a month?

Well what about using hallucigentic recreational drugs infrequently? Well what about hard opiates infrequently? How about the nervous person taking a Valium once in a blue moon before they have to give a public speech? Much more.

Ok, okay. Maybe. Key context is if whatever use becomes a regular habit with daily use always bad. What about occasionally taking drugs that actually improve at least temporarily one's abilities both physically and or mentally without long term consequences? Especially if doing so is not for the sake of numbing out pain, anguish, disappointment but rather in order to more greatly occasionally enjoy life and fun.

As this person at 9am Saturday sits in my vehicle at a Tahoe ski resort and in minutes will enjoy a fun exhilarating day skiing, yes my answer to the above is not so black and white. And I will be very happy to live my life so.
 
Lewkat said:
Oddly enough, I am not affected by most drugs of the opioid class.
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Like you, I have an issue with the enzyme that converts opioids to morphine in the body.

Should you care to know the details, it's here:

Opioid Metabolism

There is an abnomality in the CYP2D6 enzyme that prevents some people from being able to metabolize opioids. I found out when trying Codeine for arthritic pain in my knees. I was taking 10X the high dose in desperation, no effect whatsoever. Some of us are cursed.
 
VaughanJB said:
Like you, I have an issue with the enzyme that converts opioids to morphine in the body.

Should you care to know the details, it's here:

Opioid Metabolism

There is an abnomality in the CYP2D6 enzyme that prevents some people from being able to metabolize opioids. I found out when trying Codeine for arthritic pain in my knees. I was taking 10X the high dose in desperation, no effect whatsoever. Some of us are cursed.
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Interesting read, Vaughan. Much more than I already knew. But, my go-to drug of choice for most things painful, is good old Aspirin. I think it's a miracle drug for me and works well.
 
Lewkat said:
Interesting read, Vaughan. Much more than I already knew. But, my go-to drug of choice for most things painful, is good old Aspirin. I think it's a miracle drug for me and works well.
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I find a combination of things help. 2X Ibuprofen. 2X Aspirin with Caffeine and Paracetamol. That seems to work.

That and an acceptance that some level of pain is normal at my age. You can't block all pain. It's a matter of making what you have acceptable. I wish it were different, but the grim fact is, we wear out!!
 
VaughanJB said:
I find a combination of things help. 2X Ibuprofen. 2X Aspirin with Caffeine and Paracetamol. That seems to work.

That and an acceptance that some level of pain is normal at my age. You can't block all pain. It's a matter of making what you have acceptable. I wish it were different, but the grim fact is, we wear out!!
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I cannot take Ibuprofen and I refuse Tylenol. Aspirin is my miracle, Vaughn.
 

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