I don't know if I made something clear. My Cenegenics physician is the family relative whose medical expertise and academic dedication I trust. And I am taking somewhat of the attitude that I failed miserably at diet and exercise despite all that I know as a physician. I think I provide excellent care to my patients. But, that does not spill over to making rational choices for myself. I knew that I should not have eaten the bottle of Marsmallow Fluff, but ...
I'm fairly certain you had mentioned that earlier, but thanks for re-stating it - transparency is a GOOD thing.
... and that Fluff will get you every time - I used to be addicted to Fluffernutters.
layful:
... a tidbit that came to mind for you to reflect on (maybe too far out there for this discussion). If my body will naturally age and hormones, etc decline,mid that what is "supposed " to happen, should we be altering it? Osteoporosis is a normal part of aging. Is its role to stop us from doing the physical activity of youth? Are they aches pains and fatigue also nature's way of making us slow down because that is how mankind is designed? Are we supposed to be slowing down so that we gradually turn over the world to the younger? Have we been upsetting the balance by finding ways to have people love longer?
I appreciate your tackling this because it's a big thorn in my side, not just for Cenegenics but with much modern healthcare in general.
I'll take your last statement first: modern prolongation / healing techniques HAVE I believe upset the "natural balance" of society. We look back at the Black Death, cholera, and high rates of infant deaths and we puff out our chests and congratulate ourselves for having brought them under control. But what is the end result?
Roughly 7.2 billion people.
Of course, not all of those people are healthy - in fact, to this day, in many areas of the globe there are entire societies that are going without food, water, education or healthcare. Yes, we very cleverly opened Pandora's Box, but we weren't prepared for what was inside.
Are we smart enough to prolong life? Not from the technical aspects - we certainly have enough fully-convoluted gray matter to do the job. But are we ready to deal with the multitude of problems that are bound to attend to such life extension? We can't even handle what we have NOW - how is adding a few hundred million "healthy" old people going to help?
I'm not a religious person, but I AM a spiritual one, of sorts. I believe that there is a natural order of things, an order that Mankind has been violating since his first appearance on this planet. Extending his brief stay on the planet by even a few years throws a monkey wrench into the works.
Now, remaining healthy for your natural lifespan is fine, and of course the question is what is that span? Whatever it is, for each individual, I cannot agree with adding a few milligrams of youth to an elderly person - that isn't the Way of Things. Health, yes. Prolongation of youth, no.
DO NOT TAKE THESE STATEMENTS TO REPRESENT MY BELIEFS! I am just pushing the discussion to an extreme point.
Not extreme at all. I think the mental and spiritual aspects of such programs need to be explored as thoroughly as the physical ones.
The he testosterone blood normal ranges that my internist did are considered reference lab normals for adults. I do not know if it is broken down more precisely. My familiarity with testosterone is in children, adolescence and young adults. Normals are different for pre pubertal, each of the 5 stages of puberty and the adults. I am sure 2 different 70 year olds could have 2 different T levels and their physiologic and functional status could parallel that. Is the one with higher T, better BMI, muscle strength, etc normal and the other one in need of treatment or do we say each is appropriate and that there is no norm for 70 year olds physical and physiological state?
I would be inclined to agree with the latter - that there IS no norm. There are averages and there are deviations, but no norms.
Let me jump to a recent Endocrine Society paper on the use of T supplements. It says essentially that if a person has low T on blood testing, and it is confirmed on a repeat, AND if there are symptoms of low T, then it is reasonable to try giving T to see if symptoms are reversed. That's my interpretation of a much more detailed explanation. That does not answer if the low T and symptoms are normal for aging.
Having danced along the sharp edge of the "publish or perish" phenomenon myself years ago I am all too aware that papers reflect, often unwittingly, the prejudices and beliefs of the authors. It becomes a game of "You show me a
pro position and I'll show you a
con". I realize that, especially in the medical profession, papers and symposiums serve as the cutting-edge of knowledge.
... but a cutting-edge consists of two sides.
There is the standard question, which you allude to and I cannot answer. If low T and the resulting diminished physiological and physical functions are "normal" with age, should they be treated solely because it makes people feel better, stronger, more active, happy and makes their lives "better?"
One point of view is that we get old and our bodies deteriorate. That is normal and we should accept that. Another is that deterioration is NOT normal, and that if we can slow or reverse that, we should. If living to 100 is common in some families, does that mean that humans are really designed to be capable of that and do deteriorate younger is abnormal? If people lose hearing with age, should we try to prevent it or accept it as normal.
As Shakespeare would say, "Aye, therein lies the rub".
I've been watching those television commercials with the Okinawan supplements - they make a huge deal of the Okinawans living to over 100 years and that these supplements contain the essence of the foodstuffs and herbs that are responsible. What they fail to tell you is that the average age of Okinawans has been decreasing for the past two decades and that there is far more involved than just diet. But they play upon the natural human desire for immortality.
As I mentioned in a previous paragraph, my own belief is that we are spitting at the gods when we try to prolong our lives past what is "natural". Of course, this can lead to circular argument and I don't think any one answer will serve everyone.
Next stretch of logic. In some, the heart ages and gives way faster than the other organ systems. In others, they will suffer or die because their kidneys deteriorate before the rest of the body. In some, the body functions well until death at 100. , but the brain deteriorated to poorly functional after age 95.
Perhaps, in some, the testes start to deteriorate earlier resulting in low t causing all of the symptoms that are deteriorating the quality of life.
For me, if it is safely done and monitored, I want to have all parts of my body functioning as well possible. It has me feeling great and is safe with appropriate monitoring. I can rationalize taking T because my T level is low, so that raising it to a level which is "normal" should do no harm. As an added effect, it gives me the energy and strength to exercise, which I think all will say is important to health. So, I do not see a reason not to do it except for cost.
Agreed, as far as it goes.
I believe aging is natural, meaning it is natural to get old. I think getting older is to be embraced. We accumulate knowledge, experience, wisdom and contribute to the lives of others. I don't think weakening, fragility, lack of energy, lack of intense sexual pleasure and the loss of physical ability needs to be cherished. And since we have discovered a cause of the loss, why not remedy it?
Ah, the center of the maelstrom!
I don't claim that the physical ailments of aging should be cherished; on the contrary, we should fight tooth and nail to make ourselves comfortable. But I disagree that we have discovered the cause of the losses, nor have we cured them. We have found a useful Band-Aid to apply to them that, at least for a short while, allows us to believe that we have cheated Father Time and Mother Nature.
But as the commercials from the '70's said, "NOBODY fools Mother Nature!"
I don't mean to belittle what you're doing - far from it: I admire it and wish you every success. But for me, at least with the testosterone supplementation (don't know if the program gets into HGH - that would be an entirely new discussion), I am still forced to say it isn't for me. The diet, the exercise, even the frequent blood work - all of those I could embrace. But I would never consider getting cosmetic surgery (though I make bridge trolls recoil in horror), I would never consider getting an organ transplant (at 55 my life is just about done - give it to someone younger) and I wouldn't want to rely upon weekly injections to sustain my "youth". I favor natural methods - well, as natural as can be, meaning no external stimuli to keep the body going.
I mentioned earlier that I am a Taijiquan practitioner. Although it has gained an almost mystical reputation amongst laymen the truth is that it is a lifestyle adjustment: you re-learn all the basics - breathing, standing, walking - and through those adjustments you discover better health. I walk every day and in my travels I see few others walkers - everyone is driving around in their cars. It's when they get OUT of those cars, usually to go into an eating establishment, that I see yet another way of prolonging my life naturally: by not buying-into the herd mentality. I am told I'm not a man unless I drive a powerful car - I don't drive. I am told that successful people start their day with an Egg McMuffin - I don't touch fast food. I am bombarded daily by adds that tell me how wonderful my life can be if only I get a prescription for this wonder drug or that - I don't use any pharmaceuticals.
Yet here I am at 55, able to lick my weight in wild caterpillars and keep up with my late 20's - early 30's lady friends. I have bad habits, sure - especially now that I have "retired" - but 43 years of following the Path that I have followed has stood me in good stead. It isn't due to good genetics - I have lived the longest of my entire nuclear family - and it isn't due to the wonder of modern medical care - I haven't been to a doctor in over 30 years. I like to think it is the daily exercise, the manual labor, the proper nutrition and the healthy mindset that allows me to function at the level I'm currently at.
Now, ask me again in 10-15 years and I might have a different story to tell. But part of my philosophy is that I have accomplished everything I ever wanted in life, and that I am ready to welcome my old friend Death at any time. You would not
believe what a relief that kind of thinking is, but of course it isn't for everybody.
