Student loans and repayment

T

TennVet

Member
In a group of co-workers we were all shocked when a young woman told her story. She was complaining about her tax refund being confiscated by IRS because she was delinquent in student loan payments. She went on to boast about the amount of debt she had incurred over a three year period in a nursing program that was never completed. She had a pretty good job, drove a fairly new car, and her clothing didn't look like hand me downs. The consensus in the group was that she was simply a deadbeat.
 

Not really surprising to me that wanting to get out from under a loan at the expense of others is wanted. What I'd like to see researched is how many incurred a hefty loan for courses that are not going to benefit them job wise.
 
I believe it. When I was in college I was broker than broke. But I was OK because at least then I had hope and I thought I was moving forward.

I went to school with this one woman. Nice, a bit air head-y. She dressed way nicer than me and I don't think her husband worked. I'm not 100% sure what the issue was.

I also worked with another woman who got through school all on student loans. She had been working in a veterinarian office and she stated "they didn't hire anyone part time." I didn't say it but I thought "Well Target, Taco Bell etc. hires part time."

I worked part time through college and had minimal dept at graduation. Quickly paid off long ago.
 

My husband & I paid for own college without taking out loans. We both worked full time & took classes when we could so it took a while, but we managed it. Hubby finished his 2-year & years later finished his 4-yr. I took classes that benefited me at work so I could put in for other assignments, but I didn't finish a degree.

Our kid paid for everything as she went going to a local community college & has a 2-yr associate degree that can be transferred to a 4-year college when/if she wants to. All of her basics were done at a much lower cost this way & she ended up with zero debt.

Anyone who takes out a loan to go to school should face the fact that it's their debt that they chose themselves & it's their responsibility to pay it back in full. If you can't pay it, don't take it out.

Is anyone going to reimburse any of us for the money we spent towards college? Nope.

People like that woman in the OP should suck it up & pay their debt. I have no sympathy for them.

I'm just tired of others wanting to take my money & give to deadbeats like the woman in the OP.
 
My only assistance in college was the GI Bill, and it was really needed by us. I also worked on a dairy farm milking cows. Let me tell you cows don't take days off, weather is no excuse, and just because I had a tough exam those cows were there. At the same time we had two little boys at home and they wanted daddy to play with them. We made it through and it paid off. My first job as a cost accountant was $11,400 per year, and we felt like we were rich. Things got better and ended up raising four good children. After 57 years together it's good to look back and it was worth it.
 
The problem with student loans is that so many young people try to get a degree in careers that pay little more that flipping burgers at McDonalds...and then they are stuck with thousands of dollars debt that they can't afford to pay off. Most of these careers are in the "Liberal Arts" arena, and have little or no importance in the general economy.

50 college majors that earn the least money
 
In our state a lottery was finally legislated on the premise of its contribution to making higher education available to more. It did that, but colleges responded by building more high cost infrastructure and in some cases bloating salaries. When the student populations leveled out the schools were carrying a much higher fixed cost burden and responded by increasing tuition dramatically. I'm not sure this example of the ends justified the means. Incidentally it has increased the debt level incurred in the form of student loans.
 
We’ve had similar schemes that sound great but are short on results.

Like most well intentioned government programs they often benefit the people that administer them more than the people they were intended to help.

I don’t have any good answers but I know that sending a dollar to the government and getting back fifty cents in benefits isn’t the answer.
 
It's a shame that trade schools aren't talked about more. My high school taught auto mechanic, auto body & cosmetology to students in their junior & senior year if they chose that route.

Now we have a joint vocational school that around 25 schools can send students to. This has really grown over the years from when it first started. The teach Advanced Engineering (welding, precision machining, robotics/automation, engineering), Agriculture (agriculture/livestock production, animal care/management, diesel power tech, vet science), building construction (electrical, heating/air, heavy equipment operator, construction carpentry, architectural design), Information Tech (computer coding/web apps, drones/GIS tech, computer repair/tech support, computer networking/cybersecurity, Transportation (auto collision, auto services, auto technology, aviation maintenance tech), Human Services (cosmetology, culinary arts, early childhood ed, hospitality services), Public Safety (firefighter/EMS, criminal justice), Health (biotechnology, dental assisting, health occupations, med lab assisting, pre-nursing, sports medicine) & Business (business ownership, medical office management, sports management/marketing, pre-law/legal studies).

Adults can also get their GED there & certificates trade programs (STNA, phlebotomy, welding, culinary arts/hospitality/tourism management, robotics, dental assisting). They are seperated from the kids at the school.
 
Lilac said:
It's a shame that trade schools aren't talked about more.
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For Sure. There are all sorts of Blue Collar jobs that are waiting to be fulfilled....and many of them pay substantially more than someone with a Liberal Arts degree will ever make. There is a Community College in a nearby town which offers all sorts of good paying degrees. The primary requisite for students there is that they need to be willing to get their hands dirty, instead of just sitting at a desk all day.

We have a great granddaughter who is going to start her career at this school, in a few days, She has a full scholarship, and will be studying to become a dental hygienist. If things work out for her, she will graduate with No debt, and get a starting salary of at least $25/hr.
 
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Local community colleges are great resource & kids have an opportunity to get a degree or certificate without going into debt. @Don M., your great-granddaughter is making a good choice for a career. There are some jobs that will always be needed & pay good. I've haven't ever looked down on anybody who is a tradesman. They are hard working & keep most everything in the country going.

I always told my daughter that electricians, plumbers & heating/air people will always be needed. A list of those jobs could go on & on being listed here.
 
We have a grandson who chose not to go to college, although the means for him to do so are there. He chose to pursue training in auto mechanics, and knowing his aptitude to understand functions of equipment and diagnostic tools it's choice that can be very rewarding for him. Another grandson will be moving into his dorm room this weekend at Duke University choosing to pursue a degree in economics and business entrepreneurship. For him this is also a good path based upon his academic success to date. These are individual decisions and not easy ones.
 
Immediately out of Lane Technical High School (Chicago), I entered Wright Jr. College and went full time year round and got my Associates Degree in business. After, I went to DePaul University nights and every JC credit was transferrable. From there, I finished up at the University of Louisville and all of the accumulated credits were again transferrable.

I fully realize it was "back when" in the early 1960s, but Wright was extremely reasonable, and I actually spent more money on books than the cost of admission.
 
TennVet said:
In a group of co-workers we were all shocked when a young woman told her story. She was complaining about her tax refund being confiscated by IRS because she was delinquent in student loan payments. She went on to boast about the amount of debt she had incurred over a three year period in a nursing program that was never completed. She had a pretty good job, drove a fairly new car, and her clothing didn't look like hand me downs. The consensus in the group was that she was simply a deadbeat.
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I'm torn on this.

Education is the bedrock of the individual, but also society. We all gain, as a whole, from having well educated people working in market. So, as a society, we should encourage education without a huge penalty of debt. If everyone opted to go without a higher education, where would get the Doctors, lawyers, the architects from? So, isn't a public investment in education a good thing?
 
VaughanJB said:
I'm torn on this.

Education is the bedrock of the individual, but also society. We all gain, as a whole, from having well educated people working in market. So, as a society, we should encourage education without a huge penalty of debt. If everyone opted to go without a higher education, where would get the Doctors, lawyers, the architects from? So, isn't a public investment in education a good thing?
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That is a very good point for sure! But here is the problem.....how many art historians, English literature, or similar degrees do we need? But we sure could use some more good teachers, scientists, medical personnel, and so on.

AND, let's not forget the technicians - the mechanics, builders, and the like.
 
I get concerned when I hear the alarm go out that we need to send everyone to college. Yes education is important, but aren't we ignoring the foundation area? Public schools report lower and lower levels of achievement in the building block subjects. We continue to lag behind other countries. That doesn't even begin to address the subject matter that is being taught. Maybe it's time to go back to the basics.
 
A shocking number owe money because of scam schools (Phoenix University, etc.). What these "students" wanted was an easy rubber stamped golden ticket, not putting in the work and going on to a meaningful career. Look at how many graduated with "degrees" in Video Gaming, Photography, Dance, Women's Studies, Underwater Basket Weaving, etc. and large loans they must repay.

I agree that the problem begins before college though. We need more honest testing for aptitude, then rap some knuckles hard by practicing tracking. This "equal outcomes" crap is destroying society.

There was a time when every Dick, Jane, and Harry wasn't automatically passed on into High School. It had to be earned. Alternatives like vocational training and apprenticeships could become prominent again.

Fail the exams for the academic and vocational tracks and... go into honest labor. Fast food, housekeeping, janitorial, laundry, patching potholes, there are lots of jobs that need doing.
 
TennVet said:
I get concerned when I hear the alarm go out that we need to send everyone to college. Yes education is important, but aren't we ignoring the foundation area? Public schools report lower and lower levels of achievement in the building block subjects. We continue to lag behind other countries. That doesn't even begin to address the subject matter that is being taught. Maybe it's time to go back to the basics.
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I worked in IT. When I started, you had to have an aptitude for it. As the years went on, some bright spark decided that certification programs were needed. Essentially, a curriculum of subjects had to be covered, and you pass/failed a test before moving on. For Engineers it was 7 tests. For programmers, a different path, it was four tests. Despite having been in the industry for years already, I was constantly asked if I was certified.

So, I went and got certified. I did the 7 tests and got certified as an engineer, and I did the 4 to be a certified developer. I knew the whole time that, at least in my case, the certifications ran a distant second to my experience. But the certification program overrun the industry, and experience was devalued in favor of certification. It was very strange to me. As time went on, I passed more than 30 of those tests. Way more than anyone needed to do, but I was, in my own way, showing how pointless the whole exercise was. But hey, employers were far too eager to assume the certification program was vetting the good people from the bad. It was crazy.

This, I think, relates to your point. These days we don't trust our instincts, and we don't respect common sense and experience. In the West, everyone should gain a sufficient education to provide the skills necessary to work, and I'm not talking only at McDonald's. Schooling needs to be about learning, and as left wing as I am, they need to cut out the fluffy stuff. But sadly, we have generations of people who don't respect learning.

Do you need a college degree? Well, a well-earned degree can be invaluable, and you'll learn a lot. But there has to also be an avenue where hard work and commitment can also take you to the top. Judge ability, not a certificate. Sadly......... See, the thing is, once everyone has a degree, the degree means nothing.
 
My niece paid her own way for a couple of years until she found out how easy it was to get student loans. While she was at it she went ahead and borrowed extra to go to Europe. I assume she’s paid it all back by now but I suspect it was more fun borrowing it than paying it back.
 
VaughanJB said:
I worked in IT. When I started, you had to have an aptitude for it. As the years went on, some bright spark decided that certification programs were needed. Essentially, a curriculum of subjects had to be covered, and you pass/failed a test before moving on. For Engineers it was 7 tests. For programmers, a different path, it was four tests. Despite having been in the industry for years already, I was constantly asked if I was certified.

So, I went and got certified. I did the 7 tests and got certified as an engineer, and I did the 4 to be a certified developer. I knew the whole time that, at least in my case, the certifications ran a distant second to my experience. But the certification program overrun the industry, and experience was devalued in favor of certification. It was very strange to me. As time went on, I passed more than 30 of those tests. Way more than anyone needed to do, but I was, in my own way, showing how pointless the whole exercise was. But hey, employers were far too eager to assume the certification program was vetting the good people from the bad. It was crazy.

This, I think, relates to your point. These days we don't trust our instincts, and we don't respect common sense and experience. In the West, everyone should gain a sufficient education to provide the skills necessary to work, and I'm not talking only at McDonald's. Schooling needs to be about learning, and as left wing as I am, they need to cut out the fluffy stuff. But sadly, we have generations of people who don't respect learning.

Do you need a college degree? Well, a well-earned degree can be invaluable, and you'll learn a lot. But there has to also be an avenue where hard work and commitment can also take you to the top. Judge ability, not a certificate. Sadly......... See, the thing is, once everyone has a degree, the degree means nothing.
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Maybe the pool of those in competition makes it a little tougher, but I don't agree that a degree in an area that is in demand means nothing. It makes you work harder to excel and to me that profits everyone. I always felt like I did my best work and achieved more when I felt I was just a little over my head. It caused me to try harder and learn more.
 
AnneTeak said:
Maybe instead of choosing an expensive school, start at the community college level and see if that is your eventual path. I worked four jobs to pay off my student loan. No one offered to forgive it.
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I attended a two year school because that is what I could afford.

I don’t have a problem with finding a better way to provide education and training to give every kid a start in life.

I do have a problem with asking the people who rolled up their sleeves and went straight to work pay off or forgive the debts of the kids that did get to go to school.
 
I think higher education should be free, lots of my coworkers were from other countries where they got their college education for free. The companies that I worked for couldn't find enough qualified tech people without hiring people from other countries and I wonder whether free higher education here would encourage more people to go to college.

But I don't think we should require specific majors or interfere with young people learning whichever subject they find interesting. There are just too many examples of people with silly degrees doing great things. And we can't know what degrees will be valuable in the future. When I was young I found myself sitting next to an IBM recruiter once and that person told me that they looked for music majors to hire to train to be programmers. This was back when programming was so new colleges didn't have degrees in it yet.

And then there was Steve Jobs attending a calligraphy class because he found it interesting, and because of that computers started having interesting font types.

And it seems like a lot of the basis of modern science was started by British people, and although I don't know what their curriculum was a few hundred years ago, it seems like it was heavily in dead old languages (Latin, Greek) and old philosophers writings. Yet somehow that produced good thinkers.

Or even those old monks, I would guess they mostly studied religious texts, but they made some good progress in genetics and chemistry. I think it is pretty cool that some monk grew a tree in a pot and measured the dirt before and after, and the water, and found the weight of the tree was more than those, and so somehow it showed that trees pull carbon from the atmosphere (I am kind of weak on the details of these stories, hopefully I'm remembering correctly).

Also, education isn't one and done. So just the mental training in getting education is valuable as they will need to continue learning throughout their careers.
 

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