Study analyzes the impact of minimum wage hikes in CA

[againstthegrain]

2 effects that stick out to me:

1) My granddaughter worked at McDonald's and her roommate worked at Taco Bell. Both had their work hours cut after the raise. My g-daughter went from 24hrs/wk to 18 and her roommate went from 24hrs/wk to 15. The g-daughter said 4 other employees lost hours and those hours were given to employees who'd worked there longer.

While looking for other jobs, they got behind in their rent. Two months later they hadn't found other jobs yet, but found a pay-or-quit notice on their front door, and they moved back in with their respective parents.

2) The food went up in price....way up. On my way home from doing errands one day, I went to a Wienershnitzel drive-through to get a couple of corndogs....just 2 corndogs, no drinks and not a meal or combo. I was charged $11.

Perhaps the expectation to feed, house, and clothe 2 people on 48 hours of "fast food" work a week was just too much to ask. How have they fared since? Did they find more hours or a different job?

 

[Paco Dennis]

Another BIG variable that is affecting the job market is automation. It is predicted that 85 million jobs will be lost to automation by the year 2025. Think what 2026 will be like. Here are the most susceptible jobs....

• Assembly-line and factory workers.
• Bus, taxi, and truck drivers.
• Phone operators, telemarketers, and receptionists.
• Cashiers and registers.
• Fast food drive-thru.
• Bank tellers and clerks.
• Packing, stockroom, and warehousing.
• Pharmaceutical work.
• Information gathering, analysis, and research.
• Journalism and reporting.
• Bartenders and baristas.
• Stock traders.
• Postal workers.
• Doctors, anesthesiologists, and surgeons.
• Pilots, soldiers, and security guards.
• Travel agents.
• Chefs and cooks.
• Diffusing bombs.
• Typists and secretaries.
• Switchboard operator.
• Bowling pinsetter.
• Film projectionists.
• Home and garden.
• Hotel staff and room service.

What Jobs Are Being Taken Over By Robots and Computers?

 

[againstthegrain]

^^^Bowling pinsetter LOL

 

[HermitHogan]

Another BIG variable that is affecting the job market is automation. It is predicted that 85 million jobs will be lost to automation by the year 2025. Think what 2026 will be like. Here are the most susceptible jobs....

• Assembly-line and factory workers.
• Bus, taxi, and truck drivers.
• Phone operators, telemarketers, and receptionists.
• Cashiers and registers.
• Fast food drive-thru.
• Bank tellers and clerks.
• Packing, stockroom, and warehousing.
• Pharmaceutical work.
• Information gathering, analysis, and research.
• Journalism and reporting.
• Bartenders and baristas.
• Stock traders.
• Postal workers.
• Doctors, anesthesiologists, and surgeons.
• Pilots, soldiers, and security guards.
• Travel agents.
• Chefs and cooks.
• Diffusing bombs.
• Typists and secretaries.
• Switchboard operator.
• Bowling pinsetter.
• Film projectionists.
• Home and garden.
• Hotel staff and room service.

What Jobs Are Being Taken Over By Robots and Computers?

They left off computer programmers and software testers.

I would guess that software engineers are already using A.I. to assist them. Just feed it a description of what a function or method is supposed to do with parameters passed and values returned, and in many cases, A.I. can do the rest! I've used A.I. to write a few Python utility scripts that I use on the PC. It saved me a good 10 hours. Granted, it took several attempts for A.I. to get it right, but it finally did.

The day will come when requirements will be given to A.I. and from that will emerge an entire program in just a few minutes or less.

 

[HermitHogan]

^^^Bowling pinsetter LOL

I think that list was generated by A.I.

 

[dilettante]

The day will come when requirements will be given to A.I. and from that will emerge an entire program in just a few minutes or less.

I have no idea where this wacky idea keeps coming from. It's been debunked uncounted times.

A huge part of computer programming is defining the problem in enough detail to implement a solution. Turning that into code is easy enough, we've had assemblers and compilers since the 1950s. Then comes the hard part: defining and carrying out tests to catch as many flaws in operation and performance as possible.

There might be some replacement of rote coding by humans, but the vast majority of low-ball coding was already eliminated decades ago with the move toward "packaged" software for well-known problems and common business needs. Thus all of those annoying adds for "NetSuite" and its ilk.

 

[Murrmurr]

Perhaps the expectation to feed, house, and clothe 2 people on 48 hours of "fast food" work a week was just too much to ask. How have they fared since? Did they find more hours or a different job?

My g-daughter found another job, but it's part-time, so she still lives with her parents.

I agree that young people shouldn't expect to support themselves independently on entry-level wages. Even with a roommate, it's tough if they're also entry-level earners. While you're getting work experience at your entry-level job, you need to be going to a career school or a training program to make yourself desirable for higher paying jobs.

In any case, higher wages does not solve inflation.

 

[dilettante]

Another BIG variable that is affecting the job market is automation.

Nothing new here. Ag automation picked up steam (no pun intended) by the mid-1800s.

A big part of emigration from Europe to the US was that "serfs" were needed less and less. There were cabals formed between the churches and land owners to recruit and finance the deportation of "undesirables" while promising them opportunity and land. Boston, Philadelphia, and New York "agents" made a killing selling this idea to European power brokers and facilitation mass migrations.

Some also got pushed off to places like South Africa and various European colonies. Some got dumped in Australia.

It freed up a lot of land and resources that turned into large estates.

Eugenics was big at the time over there. It really worked out in some places, for example the Netherlands. There average heights and blondness are beyond much of Europe and far beyond the relocated populations'.

The shoe is on the other foot now though. Kids moved into the cities in droves since the social model didn't support a large population, which restricted opportunity. These days the cities are at war with the farmers, preferring a wide variety of cheap global goods. What they don't realize is that the worm is turning. Globalism is on its deathbed as the US has lost support at home for playing Policeman for the World.

 

[dilettante]

I agree that young people shouldn't expect to support themselves independently on entry-level wages. Even with a roommate, it's tough if they're also entry-level earners. While you're getting work experience at your entry-level job, you need to be going to a career school or a training program to make yourself desirable for higher paying jobs.

This is a challenge.

Media and politicians send out false messaging that all work is equal, and if you feel like it just stay home and get basic assistance. Often decorated with a thick frosting of false morality.

I'm not sure anything is going to fix this until the barbarians are actually at the gates. Then the hand-wringing and "somebody should protect us" rings out but it'll be too late.

We may have to collapse and go through another Dark Age before we can claw our way back up after restoring the natural order of things.

 

[StarSong]

When I see "minimum wage" I think of this Chris Rock quote - he hit it right on the money (so to speak):

“I used to work at McDonald's making minimum wage. You know what that means when someone pays you minimum wage? You know what your boss was trying to say? "Hey if I could pay you less, I would, but it's against the law.”​

 

[StarSong]

1) My granddaughter worked at McDonald's and her roommate worked at Taco Bell. Both had their work hours cut after the raise. My g-daughter went from 24hrs/wk to 18 and her roommate went from 24hrs/wk to 15. The g-daughter said 4 other employees lost hours and those hours were given to employees who'd worked there longer.

While looking for other jobs, they got behind in their rent. Two months later they hadn't found other jobs yet, but found a pay-or-quit notice on their front door, and they moved back in with their respective parents.

I worked at McD's during college for gas, insurance and pocket money, not to pay rent.

Minimum wage shouldn't be slave wages, but neither should they be high enough that 40 hours will house, feed, clothe and fully support a family.

When/why/how did fast food and similar low-wage, low-skill employment transition from student or SAHM (whose kids were in school so the arent was free at lunchtime) that offered flexible hours, to "careers?"

 

[Murrmurr]

I worked at McD's during college for gas, insurance and pocket money, not to pay rent.

Minimum wage shouldn't be slave wages, but neither should they be high enough that 40 hours will house, feed, clothe and fully support a family.

When/why/how did fast food and similar low-wage, low-skill employment transition from student or SAHM (whose kids were in school so the arent was free at lunchtime) that offered flexible hours, to "careers?"

IMO, we're slaves to inflation, and there are no slave wages. One of my first jobs was at a Dairy Queen. I was paid the minimum wage at the time, which was around a buck fifty or so. The work didn't require any special skills. The manager provided a couple days training and that was all anyone needed.

It does at least seem like some young adults view low-skilled jobs as adequate for long-term employment. I don't know why, but I do know our schools are failing, that way too many parents abuse substances, too many families are on state aid and aren't motivated to get off it, and millions of kids sit around playing video games for hours on end.

None of that is conducive to getting young people motivated and prepared to work toward a smart, successful future.

 

[dilettante]

Why isn't farm work paying better yet? It's a lot harder than making fries from a precut bag of taters, yet around here it's roughly $14/hr on the average.

So double that and you start getting a more important job done at a living wage. In some cases it'll still only be $20/hr but experienced workers doing important jobs could climb to $35/hr.

Offset some of the cost through tariffs and restrictions on imported ag products. Clamp down on the production of crops for export. Let the cost of luxury goods rise. People should not be buying steaks as dog food anyway. Who the heck is swilling wine and insisting on Häagen-Daz?

 

[StarSong]

Why isn't farm work paying better yet? It's a lot harder than making fries from a precut bag of taters, yet around here it's roughly $14/hr on the average.

What skill set does farm work require? And what percentage of farm workers are migrants (who are typically paid very low wages)?

Michigan's current minimum wage is $10.33/hr, so $14/hr at a fast food place would be surprisingly high unless you're in an area with a much higher local minimum wage.

 

[Brookswood]

Why should fast food workers get a higher minimum wage than others? That makes no sense to me.

 

[Brookswood]

Nobody is entitled to a restaurant meal that's subsidized by the workers.

Thats why I don't eat out very much anymore. The workers can’t be exploited if they are not being hired to serve people like me who now rarely frequent restaurants of any type.

 

[dilettante]

What skill set does farm work require?

A lot more than fast food. These days much of it involves operating heavy equipment, and what doesn't requires more versatility than opening cans and boxes for reheating. Few low-end farm workers deal with a single crop the entire season.

It's hard to talk figures without the entire picture. Food prices and the cost of living generally vary across the country just like wages.

 

[dilettante]

Quarter Pounder. Now with E. coli!

 

[Murrmurr]

Why isn't farm work paying better yet? It's a lot harder than making fries from a precut bag of taters, yet around here it's roughly $14/hr on the average.

The average salary for a farmer varies depending on how well their crops do and changes in operational costs and equipment, but it's around $80K-$120K/yr. The average farm worker gets paid $30K-$40K/yr, depending on their experience. Seasonal and temp workers get about $25K per season depending on the type of job. Pickers get paid the least, or used to, anyway. In Calif, they get minimum wage, but a lot of fruit farmers pay bonuses. I've heard vineyard workers get paid best, but I don't know for sure.

 

[StarSong]

The average salary for a farmer varies depending on how well their crops do and changes in operational costs and equipment, but it's around $80K-$120K/yr. The average farm worker gets paid $30K-$40K/yr, depending on their experience. Seasonal and temp workers get about $25K per season depending on the type of job. Pickers get paid the least, or used to, anyway. In Calif, they get minimum wage, but a lot of fruit farmers pay bonuses. I've heard vineyard workers get paid best, but I don't know for sure.

Thanks for that info, Frank!

 

[papa tiger]

Wages be dammed, common Kim Nuke the Fn-B'tards!

 

[StarSong]

Wages be dammed, common Kim Nuke the Fn-B'tards!

I don't get what you're talking about - are you suggesting North Korea should hit any country or US state with a nuclear bomb?

Putting aside for a moment the initial localized deaths, horrific injuries and wide destruction, such an act of aggression would incite WWIII. Nobody on the planet would be safe or unaffected.

 

[againstthegrain]

I don't get what you're talking about

Ignore is a good option, but not quoting works well too.

 

[ChiroDoc]

Letting corporations set wages (as you suggest) has resulted in fully employed people still having to go to food banks. Does that make sense? Like Walmart! A hugely profitable corporation who's workers still have to get help for food. Walmart workers increasingly rely on food banks, report says
...

Don't mischaracterize what I posted. Market forces are not exclusive to corporations. There are more private businesses, from mom & pop stores to large employers, than large corporations. They are paying their employees what they can afford based upon sales.

If you believe that government should establish wages to as an accommodation to employees, why stop at a small increase? Why not make it a law that everyone make at least $100 an hour?

If you'd like to learn more about economics, I'd recommend Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson.

 

[Debrah N.]

This is a challenge.

Media and politicians send out false messaging that all work is equal, and if you feel like it just stay home and get basic assistance. Often decorated with a thick frosting of false morality.

I'm not sure anything is going to fix this until the barbarians are actually at the gates. Then the hand-wringing and "somebody should protect us" rings out but it'll be too late.

We may have to collapse and go through another Dark Age before we can claw our way back up after restoring the natural order of things.

I don't think anyone is saying 'all work is equal'. What is being said is more 'everyone should have equal opportunities according to their abilities and goals'. That means those who have the skill/talent/intellectual ability should be able to get the education that would enable them to climb whatever ladder they want to. And that we should all be able to survive if we're willing to put the time in according to whatever level of society we chose to reside at. Lots of room in all of that for hard work and merit on all kinds of levels. You shouldn't have to work 8 hrs a day, five days a week and still have to go to a food banks.

As for going through another Dark Age and clawing our way back up, I think we'll do the climate in and that's going to change the natural order of everything. I was reading today about the AMOC slowing down and that 2100 will be a significant turning point in how the northern hemisphere gets to live as a result. So automation vs. the slowing AMOC.....it's a toss up as to which is going to hurt us first and most.