Telling lies

Judycat said:
People say they want the truth, but when confronted with it, they get angry. It is sometimes too much trouble trying to figure out what they want to hear, so I tell them I gotta go and it was nice seeing them again (not entirely true).
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^^^^ Bingo!
A friend suspected his wife was cheating on him; I knew she was. And she was always making passes at me, too.
He kept asking me. I always said, "I don't know; you'll have to talk to her about it."
He said, "You're my friend; I want the truth."
I said, "OK. She is."
He got mad at ME. I said, "You two idiots deserve each other." They divorced after having 2 more kids.
 
Probably lied when a teen and young adult. But for decades since as an ethical minded thinking person, NO, don't lie even "white lies" because instead if am in a social situation where such would be wise, I instead clam up or change the subject. Hypothetically there are limited controversial illegal activities I as an old counterculture person of the SFBA would if cornered lie to law enforcement about. However have not been in those situations. Also readily pick up on those that by habit do so, am not a fan of.
 
I think most all of us tell white lies, its a necessary part of getting along.

On the other hand big lies, lies to coerce or mislead people into doing things are not universal and not a good thing.

Problem is there's a lot of grey area in-between.

Wikipedia has a good write up on the lie, I have no idea how many different kinds there were. Lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie
220904_Pinocchio_t800.jpg
 
iu
 
In my very humble (but great and correct) opinion, the intention or motivation for the lie in question is what matters.

If you're lying to protect someone's feelings and no one is hurt by the lie, except for maybe the self-inflicted but slight harm done to your integrity, then it's probably not such a bad thing. It's actually somewhat altruistic in that respect in that you feel bad for lying, but you'd feel worse if you hurt the other person's feelings. So economics plays a role: Do the costs of lying in this instance outweigh the benefits of telling the truth?

For example, say you have a friend who decided to take up painting in her retirement. She has no talent for painting, but she loves doing it. She asks you what you think of her latest monstrosity. Do you tell her the truth or instead find some positive aspects of her painting accompanied by some small white lies to make her feel good and so she'll sleep with you. In that respect, everyone comes out ahead, which is one definition of a smart action.

A stupid action is one in which no one benefits. If you were honest and told her that a blind monkey has more artistic ability than what she has demonstrated, her feelings would be hurt, she'd be mad at you, you'd feel bad for making your friend feel bad... Nobody wins in that scenario.

So intention is everything when lying.
 
Nathan said:
People lie every day, mostly without realizing it. The lie to themselves much more, than to other people.
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"Lying to yourself -- or self-deception, as psychologists call it -- actually has benefits sometimes. Based on a growing body of research using new experimental techniques to induce and analyze self-deception, researchers are finding that most people lie to themselves at least some of the time. Sue Shellenbarger explains on Lunch Break.
By Sue Shellenbarger
Updated Aug. 2, 2012 12:01 am ET

Lying to yourselfā€”or self-deception, as psychologists call itā€”can actually have benefits. And nearly everybody does it, based on a growing body of research using new experimental techniques.

Self-deception isn't just lying or faking, but is deeper and more complicated, says Del Paulhus, psychology professor at University of British Columbia and author of a widely used scale to measure self-deceptive tendencies. It involves strong psychological forces that keep us from acknowledging a threatening truth about ourselves, he says.

Believing we are more talented or intelligent than we really are can help us influence and win over others, says Robert Trivers, an anthropology professor at Rutgers University and author of "The Folly of Fools," a 2011 book on the subject. An executive who talks himself into believing he is a great public speaker may not only feel better as he performs, but increase "how much he fools people, by having a confident style that persuades them that he's good," he says. " WSJ
 
Nathan said:
"Lying to yourself -- or self-deception, as psychologists call it -- actually has benefits sometimes. Based on a growing body of research using new experimental techniques to induce and analyze self-deception, researchers are finding that most people lie to themselves at least some of the time. Sue Shellenbarger explains on Lunch Break.
By Sue Shellenbarger
Updated Aug. 2, 2012 12:01 am ET

Lying to yourselfā€”or self-deception, as psychologists call itā€”can actually have benefits. And nearly everybody does it, based on a growing body of research using new experimental techniques.

Self-deception isn't just lying or faking, but is deeper and more complicated, says Del Paulhus, psychology professor at University of British Columbia and author of a widely used scale to measure self-deceptive tendencies. It involves strong psychological forces that keep us from acknowledging a threatening truth about ourselves, he says.

Believing we are more talented or intelligent than we really are can help us influence and win over others, says Robert Trivers, an anthropology professor at Rutgers University and author of "The Folly of Fools," a 2011 book on the subject. An executive who talks himself into believing he is a great public speaker may not only feel better as he performs, but increase "how much he fools people, by having a confident style that persuades them that he's good," he says. " WSJ
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The old "fake it until you make it" paradigm. Alfred Alder created his "act as if" therapy modality centered on that philosophy.
 
Truth is so important in life, and in certain professions like law, medicine, engineering and so on it can affect life and death. So it behooves all of us to nurture truth. But this doesnā€™t mean being loquacious about everything you know when neither the situation nor the audience calls for it. Discretion is the better part of valor and so on.

Iā€™m reminded of an old Pink Panther movie where he went into a small remote hotel and a big dog was laying near the check-in counter. He asked the hotel owner ā€œDoes your dog bite?ā€ and the owner said No. Just then the dog bit him on the ankle. He said ā€œI thought you said your dog doesnā€™t biteā€. And the hotel owner said ā€œThatā€™s not my dogā€.
 
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This is the entire Dostoyevsky quote:

ā€œMy friend, I've been lying all my life. Even when I was telling the truth. I never spoke for the truth, but only for myself, I knew that before, but only now do I see...Oh, where are those friends whom I have insulted with my friendship all my life? And everyone, everyone! Savez-vous, perhaps I'm lying now; certainly I'm also lying now. The worst of it is that I believe myself when I lie. The most difficult thing in life is to live and not lie...and...and not believe one's own lie, yes, yes, that's precisely it!ā€

Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Demons

Fyodor also said:

ā€œA man who lies to himself, and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize truth, either in himself or in anyone else.ā€

Personally I do not lieā€¦I believe it is insulting to tell people ā€œwhite liesā€. To do so means you are in effect assuming that person cannot handle the truth.

Language is a great toolā€¦there is always a way of diplomatically telling a person the truth without resorting to liesā€¦white or any other colour.
 
If I never lied I'd still be talking on the phone to my friend who called yesterday at noon. Most of my friends can rattle on for hours on end so after a couple of hours I usually make up some reason I have to get off.

I tell lies to keep from hurting people's feelings, but I'm almost too honest about myself, in job interviews, etc. I'm much more guilty of "too much information," than lying.

My brother and his girl friend used to pride themselves on their honesty. They would visit people and tell them their home was tacky, their children were obnoxious, their taste in music was terrible. No one was asking for their honest opinion, they just volunteered these things and then when people were offended they would say, "Well I was just being honest." My honest opinion was that they were jerks.
 
I despise lying. I grew up with a brother who lied about anything and everything. It was like he couldn't help himself to brag, or exaggerate even though there was no need to do so.
When raising my kids, if they told the truth, they knew I respected them for it, even when they knew they were in trouble.
I rarely lie. There is a way to be truthful without being hurtful. My friends know if I say something, it's the truth.
 
When my mom died, her daughter from her first marriage (whom she abandoned in Israel when she was 6 months old after the "arranged" marriage was annulled) contacted me & asked if she was mentioned in the will. I had to tell her the unpleasant truth - that she was mentioned in the will - specifically saying she is excluded & is to get nothing. I also gave her our attorney's number so she could contact him & he gave her a copy of the will.
 
I used to be honest to a fault. I think it was because I saw the lie of my mother. The raging maniac in the house, normal in public. Though she did do some public performances. But it's OK to lie to protect yourself, even if it's just getting along with someone you don't like, such as a co-worker. I have to say "good morning" not "I can't stand the sight of you, you f****** b****!"
 
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