The Beginning of the End for New Zealand!!

Googling showed the average price a pack at ~$14.60 across Canada. BC raised the taxes this year so a pack costs $16.

Seeing that $16, now it bothers me even more when I see street people smoking. How can they afford it.

Some people are near an Indian reserve, so they can buy at bootleg prices. I know my GS does this. It’s also a cheaper source for MJ.
 

Jules said:
Googling showed the average price a pack at ~$14.60 across Canada. BC raised the taxes this year so a pack costs $16.

Seeing that $16, now it bothers me even more when I see street people smoking. How can they afford it.

Some people are near an Indian reserve, so they can buy at bootleg prices. I know my GS does this. It’s also a cheaper source for MJ.
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yes that's what I was saying yesterday when I saw they were £14.70 a pack here.. I was :eek::eek::eek:...I see people walking along the street smoking, people sitting outside pubs and cafe's ....how do they afford it ?... Maybe they're some of the ones who are holding this country to ransom at the moment demanding Pay rises when we're in a recession... after all if they're smoking a pack a day that's almost £450 per month in cigarettes alone...
 
MrPants said:
I was a smoker for most of my life, just having quit 6 years ago, and I still remember my thought pattern as a smoker vs now as a nonsmoker and those thoughts are very much different. The addiction to nicotine is powerful and shapes our thinking about smoking. I too used to feel smoking relieved my stress but now realize it didn't really relieve my life stress, all I was doing was relieving my addiction stress. That stress that builds every time you put out your last smoke. It also gave me an excuse to withdraw from the stressful situation and have a 'time out', to gather my thoughts about whatever the issue was causing me stress while I had my smoke. I actually find now as a nonsmoker I deal with life's stress much better because I don't have to also deal with addiction stress.

We are seeing a lot of price increases in recent years, primarily through added taxation in some mostly 1st world countries however there are many more countries around the world where cigarettes are still comparatively cheap. Here's a chart comparing the cost of a pack of 20 Marlboro cigs (US$) for countries around the globe. Pakistan & Nigeria take the prize for cheapest at $1.10 & $1.12/pack. I was surprised to look at the shaded map and realize that the majority of the world still has access to pretty cheap cigarettes. I couldn't see a date stamp for this chart but it appears to be fairly recent.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_price_rankings?itemId=17
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I smoked back in the late '70s and early '80s when a pack was about 75 cents a pack and a bit cheaper if you bought cartons. From that chart, a pack of cigarettes in the U.S. today (or whenever that study was conducted) is $9.00 a pack. That's a lot of money for something so bad for your health.

Many homeless people smoke. How in the world can they afford it? Some of them also have cellphones. I suspect not all the panhandlers on the streets are homeless. Some of them are just lazy beggars. And some you can look at and instantly understand why they can't hold a job.
 
ElCastor said:
Smoking is all those things to you because you are an addict, addicted to Nicotine. Here is an explanation of what you have done to yourself.…

“Nicotine is a highly addictive chemical found in the tobacco plant. The addiction is physical, meaning habitual users come to crave the chemical, and also mental, meaning users consciously desire nicotine’s effects. Nicotine addiction is also behavioral. People become dependent on actions involved with using tobacco. They also become accustomed to using tobacco in certain situations, such as after meals or when under stress.
Nicotine is primarily consumed by inhaling the smoke of tobacco cigarettes. Other ways to smoke tobacco include pipes and cigars. Smokeless tobacco is inhaled through the nose as a powder or held in the mouth.
Tobacco is dangerous. According to one studyTrusted Source, smoking-related diseases are responsible for about 435,000 deaths per year in the United States. That’s about 1 in every 5 deaths in the United States. Stopping smoking, no matter how long you have smoked, can greatly benefit your health.”
https://www.healthline.com/health/nicotine-and-related-disorders

My heartfelt congratulations to New Zealand.
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Yes, I know all that.

But you left out Nicotine is a natural depressant, which is why it has a calming effect. It's worth noting here that cigarette producers add lots and lots of unnatural chemicals, and some scientists argue that it's the additives that cause many of the health problems common among smokers. The reason someone who started smoking in 1870 could live to an advanced age is because they were smoking pure tobacco. Back then, black-lung from coal mining claimed a lot more lives than tobacco did.

I'm not saying tobacco is a health food but it's way more harmful today than it used to be. And I'm not saying I'm not addicted to smoking tobacco, which, due to a couple of the chemical additives, is also far more addictive today than it was before the 1970s.
 
Bellbird said:
Warrigal, allowing vaping is something I can't understand yet our government encourages it. Perhaps they have been smoking too much pot. The gangs will get hold of the black market for cigarettes, the cost will go sky high, next comes more robberies , ram raids have become very popular with the young. Whatever happened to good ol NZ when murders and robberies were almost non existent, and that's the way it was when I was growing up.
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Vaping with a nicotine component is ( I believe ) as addicting, but ( I believe ) not as harmful without the tobacco smoke. Personally I would want no part of either.
 
Murrmurr said:
Yes, I know all that.

But you left out Nicotine is a natural depressant, which is why it has a calming effect. It's worth noting here that cigarette producers add lots and lots of unnatural chemicals, and some scientists argue that it's the additives that cause many of the health problems common among smokers. The reason someone who started smoking in 1870 could live to an advanced age is because they were smoking pure tobacco. Back then, black-lung from coal mining claimed a lot more lives than tobacco did.

I'm not saying tobacco is a health food but it's way more harmful today than it used to be. And I'm not saying I'm not addicted to smoking tobacco, which, due to a couple of the chemical additives, is also far more addictive today than it was before the 1970s.
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In the days before mass production of packets of cigarettes people tended to either roll their own, smoke the occasional pipe or if they could afford them, cigars. The amount of tobacco smoked in one day was much less back then. Chain smoking was not a thing. Air pollution was a bigger factor in the cities than tobacco smoking.

@Murrmurr is correct about the additives, some of which are designed to speed up the nicotine addiction process. Other additives are designed to make the product more palatable to teens. If children and teens can be protected from these products until they are fully mature they will be much less likely to take up the habit at all. The tobacco industry is fully aware of this and will do everything that they can to oppose such moves.

I say more power to New Zealand for trying to protect the coming generations.
To defeat dragons it is necessary to slay them one at a time.
Only then will the people be truly free to live long and healthy lives.
 
Does NZ have socialized medicine? Does the tax-paying public pay for treating the consequences of smoking? Would the complaining libertarians foot the bill soley and allow the people opposed to smoking to opt out of the additional taxes? Yes, other things will be next but PERHAPS better to ban the known deadly than to watch the foolish die gruesomely. Peace! (just one man's thoughts, not even an opinion).
 
Skyking said:
Does NZ have socialized medicine? Does the tax-paying public pay for treating the consequences of smoking? Would the complaining libertarians foot the bill soley and allow the people opposed to smoking to opt out of the additional taxes? Yes, other things will be next but PERHAPS better to ban the known deadly than to watch the foolish die gruesomely. Peace! (just one man's thoughts, not even an opinion).
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yes the NZ health system is a Universal public system free at source or at low cost
 
I do think there's a problem with eliminating tobacco. First, it sets a precedent. The government can regulate smoking, then what else causes health risks that can also be eliminated? I get the idea that government sponsored health care programs are picking up a substantial medical tab for your lousy habit. But it seems a little doubled faced to be reaping tobacco tax money, and then gripe about having to spend it on smokers' health.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I do think there's a problem with eliminating tobacco. First, it sets a precedent. The government can regulate smoking, then what else causes health risks that can also be eliminated? I get the idea that government sponsored health care programs are picking up a substantial medical tab for your lousy habit. But it seems a little doubled faced to be reaping tobacco tax money, and then gripe about having to spend it on smokers' health.
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I think you make a good point, but I suspect there may be more to banning tobacco than just a health risk. The nicotine in tobacco makes it highly addictive and as such compels repeated use. It is that element of compulsion, combined with ill health effects, that I and many others find unacceptable.
 
ElCastor said:
I think you make a good point, but I suspect there may be more to banning tobacco than just a health risk. The nicotine in tobacco makes it highly addictive and as such compels repeated use. It is that element of compulsion, combined with ill health effects, that I and many others find unacceptable.
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If only it was just nicotine, you will also find carbon monoxide, tar and toxic chemicals such as benzene, arsenic and formaldehyde. In addition, bronchodilators are added so that tobacco smoke can more easily enter the lungs. Sugars, flavours and menthol are all increased to dull the harshness of smoke and make it easier to inhale. Ammonia is added so that nicotine travels to the brain faster. Tobacco companies are well aware of the harm and misery that they are causing but whatever the currency in the end, it comes down to wealth before health.
 
horseless carriage said:
If only it was just nicotine, you will also find carbon monoxide, tar and toxic chemicals such as benzene, arsenic and formaldehyde. In addition, bronchodilators are added so that tobacco smoke can more easily enter the lungs. Sugars, flavours and menthol are all increased to dull the harshness of smoke and make it easier to inhale. Ammonia is added so that nicotine travels to the brain faster. Tobacco companies are well aware of the harm and misery that they are causing but whatever the currency in the end, it comes down to wealth before health.
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As evidenced in the 3 part You Tube series 'Tobacco Wars'. An in depth, behind the scenes look at 'Big Tobacco' and their history of profits over the well being of their customer base.

Episode 1:
 

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