The confusing relationship between thoughts, emotions, and behaviors.

Seems to me this thread is devolving to "simple" = unintelligent = not qualified to engage in a satisfactory relationship
I personally don't see the connection. I see who here has used the word "simple" in this thread, it's not a word I have or would use to describe anyone or a group of people.

This smacks of eugenics !
I don't see it, unless you have made a presumption of someone's thoughts. Could you explain further what exactly it is that"...smacks of eugenics", and how so?

I was raised in an area populated by people called "Oakies" ,,, poor folks originally from Oklahoma
most of the parents never graduated high school so I guess you would classify them as "simple"
IMO this group as a whole exhibited a far deeper comprehension of themselves/others and their feelings than, say, a group of egg heads
I think this typifies what I have said in other threads, in that from what I see, the level of someone's academia isn't a measure of intelligence. Ive mentioned previously intelligence comes in many forms and from many things. I've even mentioned emotional intelligence in this thread. I would go on to say that success in relationships depends on a combination of different intelligences, and isn't a direct means solely of someone's I.Q. and definitely not someone's level of academia.

I was raised in an area populated by people called "Oakies" ,,, poor folks originally from Oklahoma
most of the parents never graduated high school so I guess you would classify them as "simple"

Who are you saying would classify them as simple?
 

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I guess I dream because my brain is working overtime. Some of the dreams are quite complicated.
Sometimes the dream tries it all over again. I am who I am, therefore, I think I am.

I can't remember dreaming I am someone else, therefore I am, I think!

I am happy when I feel good and happy.
I am unhappy for a time when I am unhappy.
Therefore, I think I am happy or unhappy depending on what I think.
I'm not sure if it makes much difference what I think.

The squirrel came down the Maple tree and is eating pumpkin in the burn pit again. He seems happy, I think.
I wonder if it thinks about his orange poo ?

Pretty sure Billy Goats have fun butting stuff. Youngsters like to run a lot. They seem happy. I think it makes me happy watching them.
 
Dementia can cause changes in thinking, judgement, and personality. Brain damage can, too.

I think what effects a normal person's thought processes and how they express their emotions is personality type, rather than intelligence.

That's a fair point, and I think there is a lot within this sentence of yours. How might we consider what a "normal" person is? Do any of us even know what a normal person is? Should we even try to define it?

I think someone's personality type undoubtedly plays a role in how they are likely to process thoughts and even emotions. Then I wonder how 'intelligence', particularly emotional intelligence might develop someone's personality.

Someone who is naturally empathetic, as a personality trait, might understand the emotions of others, but their ability to reflect on that person's own feelings and respond thoughtfully might be challenging. It might depend on their level of emotional intelligence?

It seems to me that someone's intelligence as a whole is pretty much immeasurable, in a way that can be compared to someone else. There is too much of a jigsaw to put together to figure that one out. So many variables to consider, such as influences from, upbringing; past positive and negative experiences, and how that might have shaped emotional intelligence. The people someone mixes with, and how much they are influenced by them, or how they might use their own emotional intelligence as a way of filtering the influences from others.

.

My 13 year old niece will soon have an assessment to see where she is on the autism scale. She doesn't interact well with people -- shies away from them. Very little eye contact with people. To me, not that I'm an expert, she seems in many ways to be quite intelligent. She's very constructive, in that she likes building & creating things. Goes deep into subjects, immersing herself with as much information as she can find, to the point where she becomes unaware of her surroundings and doesn't hear people talking to her. She prefers to figure things out for herself and can keep herself occupied for hours.

A few weeks ago I asked her what she would like from me for Christmas. As well as a Nintendo Game Controler, Nintendo games, and even more Lego, she asked me to get her two books: Stalingrad, and Russia Revolution And Civil War -- both books by Antony Beevor. She has been interested in this type of thing since she was eleven. She has several books on WW2. Recently she went to the Imperial War Museum in Manchester with her dad. Whilst she was there she brought two small model planes that she has now put together herself. A WW2 Supermarine Spitfire Mk2 and a Messerschmitt 109.

She showed me these two model planes she had made when I visited my brother over Christmas. She left them with me in the kitchen, then she quickly ran upstairs. I kind of got the impression she wanted to interact with me and talk about the planes, but couldn't quite bring herself to do it. Eventually, she came back downstairs, and we talked a little. A few days later I gave her my copy of the movie, The Battle of Britain.

This young girl fascinates me. In some ways I see some aspects of my younger self in her when I was her age. My niece seems "normal" enough to me. As alluded to, intelligence, personality, and emotional depth are vast subjects, and no doubt are interconnected -- influencing each other. I would say that intelligence is hard to measure -- and to measure by which or whose scales? Someone's I.Q. is only a small aspect of someone's intelligence, in my opinion.
 

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That's a fair point, and I think there is a lot within this sentence of yours. How might we consider what a "normal" person is? Do any of us even know what a normal person is? Should we even try to define it?

I think someone's personality type undoubtedly plays a role in how they are likely to process thoughts and even emotions. Then I wonder how 'intelligence', particularly emotional intelligence might develop someone's personality.

Someone who is naturally empathetic, as a personality trait, might understand the emotions of others, but their ability to reflect on that person's own feelings and respond thoughtfully might be challenging. It might depend on their level of emotional intelligence?

It seems to me that someone's intelligence as a whole is pretty much immeasurable, in a way that can be compared to someone else. There is too much of a jigsaw to put together to figure that one out. So many variables to consider, such as influences from, upbringing; past positive and negative experiences, and how that might have shaped emotional intelligence. The people someone mixes with, and how much they are influenced by them, or how they might use their own emotional intelligence as a way of filtering the influences from others.

.

My 13 year old niece will soon have an assessment to see where she is on the autism scale. She doesn't interact well with people -- shies away from them. Very little eye contact with people. To me, not that I'm an expert, she seems in many ways to be quite intelligent. She's very constructive, in that she likes building & creating things. Goes deep into subjects, immersing herself with as much information as she can find, to the point where she becomes unaware of her surroundings and doesn't hear people talking to her. She prefers to figure things out for herself and can keep herself occupied for hours.

A few weeks ago I asked her what she would like from me for Christmas. As well as a Nintendo Game Controler, Nintendo games, and even more Lego, she asked me to get her two books: Stalingrad, and Russia Revolution And Civil War -- both books by Antony Beevor. She has been interested in this type of thing since she was eleven. She has several books on WW2. Recently she went to the Imperial War Museum in Manchester with her dad. Whilst she was there she brought two small model planes that she has now put together herself. A Supermarine Spitfire Mk2 and a Meshismit 109.

She showed me these two model planes she had made when I visited my brother over Christmas. She left them with me in the kitchen, then she quickly ran upstairs. I kind of got the impression she wanted to interact with me and talk about the planes, but couldn't quite bring herself to do it. Eventually, she came back downstairs, and we talked a little. A few days later I gave her my copy of the movie, The Battle of Brutain.

This young girl fascinates me. In some ways I see some aspects of my younger self in her, when I was her age. My niece seems "normal" enough to me. As alluded to, intelligence, personality, and emotional depth are vast subjects, as no doubt are interconnected -- influencing each other. Definitely hard to measure -- and to measure by which or whose scales?
By "normal", I mean a person who does not suffer from a personality disorder, sociopathic or psychopathic disease, or a genetic or acquired cognitive deficiency.

It's possible your niece is simply an extreme introvert. I don't know if introvert personality has been placed on the autism spectrum or not. It wouldn't surprise me if it has, but, imo, it doesn't belong there. It isn't a disorder.

I sincerely hope they assess her correctly.
 
"Something is shaping the thoughts." That would be judgement (or suppositions), which is largely learned.

That's putting it in simple terms, but yes, you can choose to temporarily ignore negative, harmful, or disturbing thoughts. But ignoring those thoughts doesn't necessarily stop them from recurring. Chronic negative, harmful, or disturbing thoughts requires treatment such as therapy or even medication.

I don't think it matters. Learned suppositions/judgement are the driving force, imo, and a person can get treatment for chronic negative, harmful, or disturbing thoughts, emotions, and reactions that suppositions/judgement causes.
Yes Mur, I have to keep reminding myself that part of our brain is reptilian, and older than humans. Our brain seems to be layered with the more recent part of the structure on the outer layer like an add-on room to an existing house. It's not like that house has been re-designed when we became Homo-sapiens.

Much of what influences our thoughts and emotions has been in place long before we were writing music and playing chess. Sometimes it feels like having a lizard, a caveman and a philosopher all living together in that house and learning to get along and work as a team. Don't get me wrong, that lizard brain is incredibly good at what it does and keeps me breathing when I nod off.

In today's modern jungle, the threats and rewards are quite different, but the man behind the curtain often doesn't care. Surprisingly or not surprisingly, human behavior frequently isn't that much different from other animals. Perhaps trying to control our primitive companions is ill advised, but perhaps it's best to just recognize when it's their knee jerk reaction, and try to put a little distance between that and our response. Hopefully a little mindfulness may prove useful.

I guess the intricate dance we have with our roommates can, and does have some rather "interesting" moments, but in the end, perhaps we shouldn't let them lead more than is necessary. Maybe I am selling them short though. After all, lizards did just fine for 200 million years. I doubt humans will eclipse that.
 
Yes Mur, I have to keep reminding myself that part of our brain is reptilian, and older than humans. Our brain seems to be layered with the more recent part of the structure on the outer layer like an add-on room to an existing house. It's not like that house has been re-designed when we became Homo-sapiens.
I'm sure our brains have become quite a bit more complex, though. I don't doubt we've developed many more neurons than our "reptilian" predecessors had. And I believe we keep developing new ones. Otherwise, how could we invent and also process the use of new technology and devices and everyday things that our ancestors couldn't even imagine?
 
I guess I dream because my brain is working overtime. Some of the dreams are quite complicated.
Sometimes the dream tries it all over again. I am who I am, therefore, I think I am.

I can't remember dreaming I am someone else, therefore I am, I think!

I am happy when I feel good and happy.
I am unhappy for a time when I am unhappy.
Therefore, I think I am happy or unhappy depending on what I think.
I'm not sure if it makes much difference what I think.

The squirrel came down the Maple tree and is eating pumpkin in the burn pit again. He seems happy, I think.
I wonder if it thinks about his orange poo ?

Pretty sure Billy Goats have fun butting stuff. Youngsters like to run a lot. They seem happy. I think it makes me happy watching them.

Your post gave me a chuckle! In some ways it even felt refreshing, almost as though it was bringing me down to earth. I think at times we humans can over analyse things. I'm very susceptible to over analysing.

It seems you touch on an interesting idea, in that happiness or unhappiness might be as much about what we think as what we feel in the moment. I think back to how my sense of happiness & unhappiness very occasionally switched quickly from one to the other, and quickly back again. And think to myself, what the hell has just happened there? How did I turn a strong sense of happiness to unhappy and back again so quickly, without really putting any cognitive effort into it? And me being me, then thinking what can I learn from it.

Your observation of the squirrel and Billy Goats made me wonder: Do animals experience happiness in the way we do? Watching animals can sometimes bring me joy -- it seems to me that their sense of happiness is uncomplicated. Happiness doesn't need to be complicated. We humans seem to overcomplicate even that.

You mention dreams. Now there is a subject for its own thread, perhaps even several threads. Dreams are something I have been thinking about more recently. I've even started wondering that instead of dreams being a consequence of sleeping, from feeling tired. Could it be that our brains need to dream to survive, and feeling tired and sleepy has something to do with animal evolution? To deliberately put us into a state need for sleep -- evolved as a way to ensure our brain dream, for whatever reason. It was just a passing thought at the time. Sometimes its good to look at things in reverse -- away from the 'established' narrative. We never know where it might lead us.

I recently read that our brains are equally as busy regardless of whether we are asleep or awake, they are just in two different states. It seems, based on that, that are brains are never at rest.
 
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Your post gave me a chuckle! In some ways it even felt refreshing, almost as though it was bringing me down to earth. I think at times we humans can over analyse things. I'm very susceptible to over analysing.

It seems you touch on an interesting idea, in that happiness or unhappiness might be as much about what we think as what we feel in the moment. I think back to how my sense of happiness & unhappiness very occasionally switched quickly from one to the other, and quickly back again. And think to myself, what the hell has just happened there? How did I turn a strong sense of happiness to unhappy and back again so quickly, without really putting any cognitive effort into it? And me being me, then thinking what can I learn from it.

Your observation of the squirrel and Billy Goats made me wonder: Do animals experience happiness in the way we do? Watching animals can sometimes bring me joy -- it seems to me that their sense of happiness is uncomplicated. Happiness doesn't need to be complicated. We humans seem to overcomplicate even that.

You mention dreams. Now there is a subject for its own thread, perhaps even several threads. Dreams are something I have been thinking about more recently. I've even started wondering that instead of dreams being a consequence of sleeping, from feeling tired. Could it be that our brains need to dream to survive, and feeling tired and sleepy has something to do with animal evolution? To deliberately put us into a state need for sleep -- evolved as a way to ensure our brain dream, for whatever reason. It was just a passing thought at the time. Sometimes its good to look at things in reverse -- away from the 'established' narrative. We never know where it might lead us.

I recently read that our brains are equally as busy regardless of whether we are asleep or awake, they are just in two different states. It seems, based on that, that are brains are never at rest.
That's true of REM sleep anyway.
I guess if our brain is ever totally at rest, then we have vacated the premises. :ROFLMAO:
 
I learned that if I roll my eyes 3 - 4 times I fall right back to sleep.
I think maybe it's giving up on being awake. "WHAT evah!"
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Watching Woody Harrelson making love on the show right now, gives me great idear's.
Great Idea's seem to make me happiest, I think!
 
we still do not fully understand the human brain/mind etc - we think we have identified its total anatomy? and functions? but have we really?
 
I have benefitted immensely from my experience with mental illness com pared to what? Living without a serious mental illness? No one knows, not even myself can picture a life I did not-do not have. I consider myself versed on both sides of coin, however given similar circumstances as mine your life would still differ from mine based on the choices you make.
 
Oh Magna Carta, I agree with all you said but this. I've known some "simple" people with kind, generous hearts who had wonderful relationships.

On the other hand my father, IQ of150+, was oblivious to the feelings of others. Example; Referring to his last girlfriend, when he was 86 and she was 40 (he was handsome as well as smart.) "The last time we went out together, I handed her a list when she got in the car of all her faults and the things I thought she needed to improve on. We didn't really have as much fun at the art fair as we usually have so I haven't asked her out since."
🤣
 
One's experiences can have something to do with what comes first, thought, or feelings, .....
 


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