"The demise of social security"

"the one's that amaze me are those who held good jobs during their working careers, and outside of the equity in their houses, their net worth is only $75K, or less. Those people obviously failed to think about their futures."

At the least presumptuous.
 

See... now I think 401Ks were another giveaway to Banks and Wall Street. Before that Corporations used pensions as a benefit for employees. Then regular pensions were eliminated and replaced with 401Ks with minimal fund matching on the part of the employer. This took all the risk of market fluctuation from the employer and placed it squarely on the retiree. So they really didn't do their employees any big favors by doing away with pensions and using 401ks instead.

Minimal funding by the employer my arse. My own 401K was matched by my employer to $10,000 a year and I took full advantage of that. Plus---I had a Defined Benefit Pension with this same employer. I worked as well as an Independent Contractor and took full advantage of the old IRA (Individual Retirement Account).
 
With all due respect, Lon, the reason you believe in personal responsibility and good habits is because you were raised that way. Be thankful for the circumstances you were born into. Others have been born into slightly different ones.

And with equal due respect you have no idea of the circumstances into which I was raised or born into, but let me just say that whatever your assumptions, you are dead wrong.
 
"the one's that amaze me are those who held good jobs during their working careers, and outside of the equity in their houses, their net worth is only $75K, or less. Those people obviously failed to think about their futures."

At the least presumptuous.

Not "presumptuous"...rather an unfortunate fact that seems to be coming back to haunt a lot of people. There certainly are some who made good wages for decades who met with some sort of health issue, etc., that sapped their funds. However, there are a bunch who had to have the big houses, drive the fancy cars, and take lavish cruises, etc., and now, are sweating out their retirements. Believe me...I know a few like that.
 
Not "presumptuous"...rather an unfortunate fact that seems to be coming back to haunt a lot of people. There certainly are some who made good wages for decades who met with some sort of health issue, etc., that sapped their funds. However, there are a bunch who had to have the big houses, drive the fancy cars, and take lavish cruises, etc., and now, are sweating out their retirements. Believe me...I know a few like that.

There are many reasons for "sweating out" retirement Don. That is why your suggestion that all could have done it "you way" (credit Frank Sinatra) is presumptuous.
 
This is what's wrong with our society.....That "I did it, so there must be something wrong with you if you didn't" attitude.. No one knows the circumstances people are faced with during their working and earning years.. Many times life deals some pretty unfair hands.. To make blanket statements about people's characters based on their retirement savings is just plain presumptuous and yes.... arrogant.
 
And with equal due respect you have no idea of the circumstances into which I was raised or born into, but let me just say that whatever your assumptions, you are dead wrong.

You are correct. I do not know your circumstances. You say that "Whatever" my assumptions, I am "dead wrong".
So then even if my assumption is right, its wrong. I therefore apologize for my "dead wrong" assumption. I can't help wondering, though, where you obtained your admirable traits of "personal responsibility and good habits".
 
I'm sure that I will be PO'ing some when I talk about the pitiful state some retirees find themselves in...but the majority who are barely scrimping by are doing so as a result of poor decisions they made earlier in their lives. For some, it is Divorce, for others it is trying to "outdo the Joneses", etc, etc. Over the past half century, most people with a decent steady job probably made the better part of 2 million dollars during their working careers. If all they have to show for all those years is a house and a few thousand in the bank, they obviously did not think they would ever grow old, and need to retire.

I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, and I certainly didn't ever make 6 figures, or more a year....BUT, I was raised to believe that it is MY responsibility to make the most of life, and to live such as to not be a burden to others.
Now, if that leaves a sour taste in some people's mouths, so be it. What's the old saying????...Something about You Reap What You Sow?????
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lon
I'm sure that I will be PO'ing some when I talk about the pitiful state some retirees find themselves in...but the majority who are barely scrimping by are doing so as a result of poor decisions they made earlier in their lives. For some, it is Divorce, for others it is trying to "outdo the Joneses", etc, etc. Over the past half century, most people with a decent steady job probably made the better part of 2 million dollars during their working careers. If all they have to show for all those years is a house and a few thousand in the bank, they obviously did not think they would ever grow old, and need to retire.

I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, and I certainly didn't ever make 6 figures, or more a year....BUT, I was raised to believe that it is MY responsibility to make the most of life, and to live such as to not be a burden to others.
Now, if that leaves a sour taste in some people's mouths, so be it. What's the old saying????...Something about You Reap What You Sow?????



Don, you are so intent to show us how right you are and what great decisions you made you are overlooking the simple fact that many, many of the rest of us had different experiences in life. Give us some slack, be thankful your moves weren't wiped out by some major event or whatever put so many on the other side of the equation. Slack....just slack....
 
You are correct. I do not know your circumstances. You say that "Whatever" my assumptions, I am "dead wrong".
So then even if my assumption is right, its wrong. I therefore apologize for my "dead wrong" assumption. I can't help wondering, though, where you obtained your admirable traits of "personal responsibility and good habits".

I was a avid reader as a kid.
 
I was a avid reader as a kid.

Mom and Dad get no credit, or was that in the orphanage? You are fond of saying how none of us "have a clue" about you. Perhaps if you gave us a few it would clear things up. I think, generally speaking, we all get along on here pretty good.
Let's just say that I completely disagree with your views on this topic, and let's keep the peace.
 
Don, you are so intent to show us how right you are and what great decisions you made you are overlooking the simple fact that many, many of the rest of us had different experiences in life. Give us some slack, be thankful your moves weren't wiped out by some major event or whatever put so many on the other side of the equation. Slack....just slack....

OK...I Fully acknowledge that some people have an event that totally upsets their lives...health problems, etc. BUT...let me Clarify the type of people who I have little sympathy for.

When we settled down in Kansas City, we bought a house in a new typical Middle Class subdivision. All the houses were nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath houses, and virtually all who moved in were in our 30's, good steady jobs, a couple of kids, etc. We all drove Fords and Chevies, with an occasional Buick or Mercury. We became good friends, and every Sunday night we rotated a get together at each others houses...the guys played poker in the rec room and the wives
gathered in the living room for a chat. It was an ideal text book Middle Class. Then, when the kids grew up and went out on their own, the neighborhood underwent a major transformation. People began to move out to bigger houses, Fords were traded for BMW's, family vacations became cruises to the Mediterranean. Within 5 or 6 years, we were one of the few original residents left. By then, we were more involved in our future plans, so we didn't change our lifestyles much.

Every now and then, I run into one of the old neighbors up in the city. Often, the conversation drifts to what a Bitch retirement is, and how rising prices are cramping their lifestyles, and how they may have to keep driving their present car for a few more years....which is now a Ford, instead of a Lexus. Half of them have gotten divorced, and alimony is eating their lunch. These people had Every opportunity to enjoy their retirements, but they Blew it. I listen to them, wish them good luck, and then count my blessings that the wife and I didn't fall into the same trap.
 
OK...I Fully acknowledge that some people have an event that totally upsets their lives...health problems, etc. BUT...let me Clarify the type of people who I have little sympathy for.

When we settled down in Kansas City, we bought a house in a new typical Middle Class subdivision. All the houses were nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath houses, and virtually all who moved in were in our 30's, good steady jobs, a couple of kids, etc. We all drove Fords and Chevies, with an occasional Buick or Mercury. We became good friends, and every Sunday night we rotated a get together at each others houses...the guys played poker in the rec room and the wives
gathered in the living room for a chat. It was an ideal text book Middle Class. Then, when the kids grew up and went out on their own, the neighborhood underwent a major transformation. People began to move out to bigger houses, Fords were traded for BMW's, family vacations became cruises to the Mediterranean. Within 5 or 6 years, we were one of the few original residents left. By then, we were more involved in our future plans, so we didn't change our lifestyles much.

Every now and then, I run into one of the old neighbors up in the city. Often, the conversation drifts to what a Bitch retirement is, and how rising prices are cramping their lifestyles, and how they may have to keep driving their present car for a few more years....which is now a Ford, instead of a Lexus. Half of them have gotten divorced, and alimony is eating their lunch. These people had Every opportunity to enjoy their retirements, but they Blew it. I listen to them, wish them good luck, and then count my blessings that the wife and I didn't fall into the same trap.

I get that, Don. I agree with you. People who have never had to struggle for survival, often chase the wrong things and pay the price. There is a difference though, between trading down from a Lexus to a Ford, and giving up your blood pressure pills for a can of dog food. Social Security is their very life.
 
Mom and Dad get no credit, or was that in the orphanage? You are fond of saying how none of us "have a clue" about you. Perhaps if you gave us a few it would clear things up. I think, generally speaking, we all get along on here pretty good.
Let's just say that I completely disagree with your views on this topic, and let's keep the peace.

Let's just say that I lived from age 10 to 17 with just a mother who worked most of her adult life as a waitress & cashier where her tips were counted every night when she came home from work. We lived in a studio apartment with no phone or TV and the old ice box instead of a refrigerator in the galley kitchen.
I slept on a Army cot with a extra mattress. l earned every bit of my spending money for clothes etc. from age 11 to the time I joined the Air Force after graduating from High School at age 17 If there was one thing that gave me a boost it was the Korean G I Bill. It enabled me to get a degree and get my first home at 3% 20 year loan. Any good traits that I may have acquired to reach my present status I picked up by reading or observation. BTW I am a excellent tipper because of my mother.
 
Let's just say that I lived from age 10 to 17 with just a mother who worked most of her adult life as a waitress & cashier where her tips were counted every night when she came home from work. We lived in a studio apartment with no phone or TV and the old ice box instead of a refrigerator in the galley kitchen.
I slept on a Army cot with a extra mattress. l earned every bit of my spending money for clothes etc. from age 11 to the time I joined the Air Force after graduating from High School at age 17 If there was one thing that gave me a boost it was the Korean G I Bill. It enabled me to get a degree and get my first home at 3% 20 year loan. Any good traits that I may have acquired to reach my present status I picked up by reading or observation. BTW I am a excellent tipper because of my mother.

Thank you for sharing that, Lon. Not that it matters to you one wit, but I applaud you for rising out of difficult circumstances. Much of my own character was formed through self directed reading as well. I can understand now your "if I can do it, anyone can" philosophy. I still disagree with that. There are many who find themselves in circumstances that make it impossible for them to duplicate your accomplishment. I apologize for my former misconceptions. My former daughter-in-law was a waitress. One of the most difficult and under rated jobs around. I make sure to tip well as well.
 
Prior to SS 35% of seniors lived in poverty. That is down to under 10%.. Medicare has eliminated the concern that one major illness will wipe out a life savings and drive someone into poverty after working and saving all their lives.. and SOME think it's a fine idea to eliminate it or privatize it?

I'd like to lead this conversation away from Lon now and point out that at least one of the republican candidates for president has explicitly stated that he wants to privatize Social Security. He thinks that would be a good thing for the USA. His friends at the Country Club call him Jebby.
 
I'd like to lead this conversation away from Lon now and point out that at least one of the republican candidates for president has explicitly stated that he wants to privatize Social Security. He thinks that would be a good thing for the USA. His friends at the Country Club call him Jebby.

I'm not worried about Jeb. They're going to nominate Trump. :saywhat:
 
I'd like to lead this conversation away from Lon now and point out that at least one of the republican candidates for president has explicitly stated that he wants to privatize Social Security. He thinks that would be a good thing for the USA. His friends at the Country Club call him Jebby.

I believe they all want to Privatize SS and voucherize Medicare. That's been the Holy Grail of the GOP since those programs were established. Part is because they want to gift their wealthy donors with another pot of cream to skim off the top, but the other part is they simply don't believe that as a society, government should be helping people. Period.
 
I believe they all want to Privatize SS and voucherize Medicare. That's been the Holy Grail of the GOP since those programs were established. Part is because they want to gift their wealthy donors with another pot of cream to skim off the top, but the other part is they simply don't believe that as a society, government should be helping people. Period.

But have they all been stupid enough to say so? Usually they try to downplay that during the campaign. Not Jebby.
 


Back
Top