The newest brand of abortion ban Is next-level cruelty

Paco Dennis

SF VIP
Location
Mid-Missouri
"In May, Texas governor Greg Abbott signed into law an abortion ban that feels inconceivably extreme, even by his state’s standards. Senate Bill 8 banned abortion past the point of fetal “cardiac activity” — in practical terms, around six weeks — even in cases where pregnancies result from incest or rape. Though cruel, this type of ban is not uncommon, particularly not in a year that saw state legislatures pass at least 90 abortion restrictions in six months. But S.B. 8 takes the unprecedented step of empowering private citizens to police their neighbors, placing at least a $10,000 “bounty on people who provide or aid abortions, inviting random strangers to sue them,” according to a federal lawsuit challenging the policy. So on top of being unconstitutional, S.B. 8 incentivizes vigilantes to sue strangers on suspicion of abetting abortion.


Lawmakers deliberately engineered S.B. 8 to withstand legal challenges, and indeed, federal courts declined to award abortion providers an injunction before the law took effect on September 1. The U.S. Supreme Court is expected to rule on an emergency application from abortion providers today, but in the meantime, here’s everything you need to know about this latest brand of anti-abortion extremism.


What does S.B. 8 do?


Speaking purely in terms of the law’s effect, S.B. 8 does the same thing any six-week ban aims to do: outlaw abortion well before many people even realize they’re pregnant. In Texas specifically, S.B. 8 would make at least 85 percent of abortions performed in the state illegal.


The six-week mark is pegged to the fallacy — beloved by anti-abortion groups — that a human heart begins to beat about six weeks into pregnancy. But the existence of a heartbeat implies the existence of a heart, something embryos don’t have. Abortion antagonists have never been in it for accuracy, and in evoking the specter of a heartbeat, they seek to play on emotions. Still, six-week bans are hard to route around the Supreme Court, which currently — under terms set by Roe v. Wade — ensures the procedure legal until viability, at around 23 weeks.


How is S.B. 8 different than bans in other states?


S.B. 8 specifically takes enforcement of the law out of the state’s hands, deputizing any private citizen who does not work for the government to do that job instead. Under the new law, random people would be incentivized to sue in civil court — to the tune of at least $10,000 in damages per termination — not only abortion providers, but also anyone who “knowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets the performance or inducement of an abortion.” The latter category seemingly includes insurance companies, along with abortion funds that help people pay for the procedure and its attendant hidden costs. “Obviously we have a target on our back being abortion funds,” Cristina Parker, communications director of Texas’s Lilith Fund, told Jezebel. “We’ve got support on deck for if and when we get sued, but there’s not much to prevent folks from doing it.”


In short, Texas’s unprecedented tactic mobilizes untold private bounty hunters (complainants do not even need to live in Texas, necessarily, or be at all connected to the people they accuse), offering them a financial reward in exchange for policing clinics, physicians, aid groups, and other people who might, for example, agree to a favor as small as driving their friend to an appointment, or accepting the Uber fare. The law promotes a frankly unhinged degree of interpersonal surveillance, and unfortunately, that winds up being its strength. In dividing up the enforcement task between so many as-yet-unnamed players, lawmakers preserved the policy against injunction. As Jezebel notes, legal groups and/or providers typically sue state officials when faced with an unconstitutional abortion ban, blocking the law from taking effect on grounds that it violates precedent established by Roe v. Wade. But in this case, there is no clear defendant to name; just the credible threat of expedient action from anti-abortion zealots who are ready to act immediately. Providers did still try to stop S.B. 8 from taking effect before September 1, but they were not successful."

https://www.thecut.com/2021/09/texas-bans-abortion-at-6-weeks-sets-bounty-on-providers.html
 

In my child bearing years abortion was illegal in Australia. Gynecologists did perform routine (legal) D & C procedures for a variety or reasons. I had one at the same time as I had my tubes cauterised as a precaution to make sure that I was not pregnant at the time. It blows my mind to think that some busy body could report that I had had an abortion and receive a bounty for doing so. Whatever happened to confidentiality and is every miscarriage now going to be regarded with suspicion by the neighbours?

As Pepper says, organise and vote because this is monstrous legislation.
 

Hopefully, the Supreme Court will take a look at this and see if it complies with Roe vs. Wade, and overturn it. There are already far too many kids being born to people who won't support and raise them properly. I can't believe that these politicians would overlook incidents of incest and rape....and put a fetus "heartbeat" on a higher priority than a women's health. Women should be outraged and protesting against this.
 
It's up to the next generation. I've done my part, big-time. Vote. Organize & vote.
This is my attitude too, it is depressing for the situation to go backwards after our generation had worked so hard. I remember in high school when abortion was illegal in my state how friends would have to travel out of state to get an abortion. It worked okay for us because we were middle class and could afford to contribute our allowances to the girl in need. But there were also horrid photos published back then of young girls bodies who died from illegal botched abortions.
But I just feel too old to fight now, the current young people will need to take over the fight.
I suppose organized crime people will provide abortions, and hopefully they will have better modern equipment now. I hate organized crime, whenever we make something illegal that people are going to do anyway, it just fuels the criminals.
 
This is a highly decisive issue, and one we will not easily put to an end.

I see no chance on people agreeing about the morality of abortion. In the US maybe half think its immoral, even murder, and half don't. Kind of depends on how you ask the question, and what part of the country you are in.

I don't like abortion and wish it didn't happen. However since there is so little common ground on this one my opinion is that the government should not get involved. Let people make their own decisions. That seems to me to be the conservative view, but most conservatives probably don't agree.
 
Personally, I'm not in favor of abortion but IMO it's a personal/private decision that should be left up to the individual.

This new law sounds like it will do more to create spiteful nuisance lawsuits that will clog the courts and disrupt families already in turmoil all for an award of $10,000.00.

IMO the lawyers will be the only ones to benefit from this new law.

Very sad.
 
In my child bearing years abortion was illegal in Australia. Gynecologists did perform routine (legal) D & C procedures for a variety or reasons. I had one at the same time as I had my tubes cauterised as a precaution to make sure that I was not pregnant at the time. It blows my mind to think that some busy body could report that I had had an abortion and receive a bounty for doing so. Whatever happened to confidentiality and is every miscarriage now going to be regarded with suspicion by the neighbours?

As Pepper says, organise and vote because this is monstrous legislation.
Some states have enacted laws that will encourage 'investigation of miscarriages. As usual all these laws are aimed strictly at the woman. They ignore the fact that the fathers involved often pressure and pay for the abortions. i knew a young woman in Honolulu in early 70's who's high ranking Military Dad flew her to Japan twice for abortions when they were still illegal here. Why he didn't get her on the pill after the first one who knows.

In the early 60's i almost lost my mother because abortions were illegal. My step-Dad pressured her to get one. Something went horribly wrong, tho not due to error of the abortionist, but the nature of the pregnancy. And to be fair if they'd been legal i'm not sure if sonograms were available everywhere and that's probably what would have been needed to diagnose that it was ectopic pregnancy. (Fetus forming in an ovary). Because it was ectopic it was more difficult to expel the fetus and she hemorrhaged from damage to that ovary. A friend got her to go to hospital where the Doc who treated her labeled it 'miscarriage due to being ectopic'. One of the scariest events in my life, and it took a heavy toll on her. She thought she'd never be able to have another a child. But even with just one ovary intact she got pregnant again a couple of years later by same man who again first wanted her to abort then tried to get her to essentially 'sell' the baby to wealthy childless friends of his. As much as my baby brother complicated my teen life, i was extremely glad she told his father what he could do with his suggestions.
 
Last edited:
Browsing around I have picked up a couple of common reactions.

People are demanding that the President remove the filibuster. I'm not sure whether he has that power, or if he does, what difference it would make.

They are also demanding that the President expand the Supreme Court to 13, one for each federal district court. Again, not sure what this would accomplish.

The problem with this Texas legislation is two fold. It does not actually ban abortion. It simply sets a time limit that is unworkable for the majority of women seeking one. A grey area that might be amended ???

The second problem is that the responsibility for acting against the practice of providing safe medical abortions has been outsourced to civilians. Effectively it has set up a bounty hunter system where the hunted have to pay the bounty of $10,000 and it is wide enough in scope that it includes women, medical practitioners, receptionists, taxi and Uber drivers. In this way the whole deal is shielded from Roe v Wade and it seems to me that SCOTUS delivered the correct legal decision ???
 
Last edited:
Warrigal you know a lot about the US and our policies. Good questions, answers to the few I know a little about:
They are also demanding that the President expand the Supreme Court to 13, one for each federal district court. Again, not sure what this would accomplish.
It would allow him to appoint a new justice, presumable a more liberal Democrat. Many see this a a way to bring more "balance" to the court. I doubt it will happen.
The problem with this Texas legislation is two fold. It does not actually ban abortion. It simply sets a time limit that is unworkable for the majority of women seeking one. A grey area that might be amended ???
Good point, and this is what a lot of the anti-abortion state level legislation has been designed to do. Make abortion more difficult without taking on Roe v Wade.
The second problem is that the responsibility for acting against the practice of providing safe medical abortions has been outsourced to civilians. Effectively it has set up a bounty hunter system where the hunted have to pay the bounty of $10,000 and it is wide enough in scope that it includes women, medical practitioners, receptionists, taxi and Uber drivers. In this way the whole deal is shielded from Roe v Wade and it seems to me that SCOTUS delivered the correct legal decision ???
Good analysis, right on I think. As to the question, I have no idea what the correct legal decision would be, however I know this will not settle the issue. It is only a kind of temporary thing. As I understand it this allows Texas to enforce the law whilst the underlying constitutionality is being litigated. Does not say the law is or isn't constitutional.
IMO the lawyers will be the only ones to benefit from this new law.
Very likely...
 
Way back in the 1960s when I was a student in Teachers College we did a course in government. It was in three parts - the American Revolution and the American constitution and the federal system of government. Next was the the Russian revolutions (there were two) and the Soviet system. Finally we looked at the Mother of Parliaments - Westminster and our own system which is a combination of the Westminster parliamentary system which has the monarch as titular head, supremacy of the parliament and a constitution that is very similar to the United States in terms of the powers of the states and the commonwealth.

We have the same separation of powers as US - the Executive (an appointed Governor General in place of an elected president. He/she is the symbolic representative of the monarch. We have the legislative branch consisting of House of Representatives and the Senate and we have the Judiciary. Our High Court is the equivalent of SCOTUS and we have various federal courts, including the family court (which will soon be subsumed into the more general courts). Behind all of this, doing the work, is the Public Service.

I have always found the way different countries are shaped by their history and chosen forms of government to be really interesting.
 
I'm sorry to have offended you. It's not a personal feeling I posted. It's the actual facts the Supreme Court used when voting. I didn't start the thread. The one who did also mentioned the heartbeat at 6 weeks. This fact was the driving force in the Supreme Court's decision.
To leave it out would leave a discussion on a topic not fully addressed. No?
 
Last edited:
I won't be offended for my post to be removed...surprised but not upset. I always like to be informed of the whole issue but I don't want to make anyone sad. I'm sincerely sorry.

The only problem is that the opening post also mentions the baby's heartbeat at 6 weeks so if my post is removed then post#1 will be in jeopardy as well.
 
Last edited:
This crap happened because not enough people actually vote, and when they do, they don't vote their interests.

It's up to the next generation. I've done my part, big-time. Vote. Organize & vote.
Exactly! If people had voted in 2016 instead of playing videogames or whatever, 3 additional justices favorable to Roe vs. Wade would be on the court now. Today's vote would have been 7 -2 since Roberts sided with the liberals.

The Texas law will mainly hurt the poor. Those that are better off can still go to another state.

Make no mistake, there are several hard right states that will copycat the law very, very quickly.
 
Texas, and soon Florida, allow the reproductive rights of a virus while denying the reproductive rights of women. Whether in favor of abortion or not, the issue should be decided by a women and her doctor on a case by case basis, not a political party attempting to appease a large donor base.
The Texas law was carefully designed in an attempt to circumvent the SCOTUS from being able to stay it. The battle in the SCOTUS is not over, but with the current conservative majority I assume the Texas law will stand.
Beyond the "somewhere around six weeks" part of the law, the "bounty" issue is from the 1800's. A nosey neighbor, with zero proof, can file suit against a woman for getting an abortion. The woman may have miscarried or never been pregnant to begin with. There is no penalty for the nosey neighbor... jilted ex boyfriend... local church deacon... whoever brings the suit.
Also, this law does not have any relief for incest or rape. A 13 year old girl, raped by a stepfather, has to carry the baby to birth and deal with the emotional and physical baggage. A 'morning after' pill is illegal. She has been ravaged, physically and mentally. Now, she has to deal with going through a pregnancy, giving up the baby for adoption, or see the baby kept by the same family that allowed the rape to happen in the first place.
We are living in sad times.......
 
You cannot legislate morality - can you? What about the separation of church and state?

Abortion is not something that I personally would condone HOWEVER, it has been happening ever since the dawn of time so why can it not happen safely? Especially as when incest or rape is concerned???? I agree that a woman has a right to chose for herself and that at some point, during a pregnancy, there must be a point of no return.

As for Texas, what is in place to prevent people from accusing a random anyone - just to collect a bounty?? What happens when someone is "mistakenly" accused? Hopefully this will clog the courts and it will just bog everything down?! My son tells me there are computer people working on this already, specifically just to make trouble and bring the court system to a stand still. (although, how he knows anything about that, mystifies me!)

I DID see something about a potential "loop hole." It seems they can only accuse someone of having an abortion IN the state of Texas however, if they go out of state, jurisdiction is lost. There are a couple of groups fund raising for travel money, as we speak.

You're right - sad times........................
 
I personal favor a woman's rights to control her own body. That said, however, Texas is a very, very conservative state. I have no specific facts to support this BUT I strongly suspect that the majority of Texas citizens support this new draconian law.
 
The extremely restrictive abortion laws being enacted conservative states, which limit abortion to 6 weeks are, IN PART, a reaction to the extremely unrestrictive laws being enacted in liberal states, some of which allow abortions to be performed even when the baby is about to be born.

As usual with extremes, I think both these ideas are absurd.

I favor abortion on demand during the first trimester, and no abortions at all once the baby is viable. If medical conditions require terminating a pregnancy when the baby is viable, do a caesarian or induce labor. After the first trimester, but before viability, abortions would be allowed only when necessary because of serious medical problems.
 
I favor abortion on demand during the first trimester, and no abortions at all once the baby is viable. If medical conditions require terminating a pregnancy when the baby is viable, do a caesarian or induce labor. After the first trimester, but before viability, abortions would be allowed only when necessary because of serious medical problems.
Well, look at you deciding what's best for that woman you don't even know. How dare you. How many children did you bear when you were not willing? When were you forced to bear a child you couldn't have for reasons you should not have to share with anyone but your doctor? Not once were you ever in this predicament.
 

Back
Top