The Power of Restraint

S

SifuPhil

R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
Location
Pennsylvania, USA
No, not "restraint" in the sense of handcuffs and chains - that's for another thread. :cool:

What I'm thinking of here is your ability to refrain from commenting on certain life situations, when said comment would probably only serve to inflame the situation.

For example ... you're shopping at Wal-Mart (I truly don't know WHY you'd be there, but again that's another thread) and you see a mother yelling at her 5-year-old. Red in the face and evidently at her wit's end, she slaps the youngster in the face. Not hard enough to snap his head but hard enough to leave an angry red welt on his cheek.

Do you say something to her?

Your neighbor (not particularly a friend - more like an acquaintance) asks if you think her new dress suits her. The mental image of Dumbo in a tu-tu flashes through your mind - the similarities are amazing. Do you speak your mind, or decide that discretion is truly the better part of valor?

You're having lunch with a group of friends, and one of them makes a disparaging remark about your religion. Do you defend your faith to the end with a well-fought verbal battle, or do you just shrug your shoulders and continue munching on your watercress sandwich?

Do you find that your ability - or desire - to hold your tongue has increased, decreased or remained pretty much the same over the years?
 

The Walmart example is easy; I'd say "Thanks, lady - it's good to see discipline for a change!" And I might suggest she leave the brat with a sitter if she can't control her in public.

And Phil, maybe you should restrain yourself from displaying that prejudice against Walmart, a true American icon of free enterprise! God bless Mr. Sam!

(I'd be at Walmart because I like to save money!)
 
"A true American icon of free enterprise" ... obviously you aren't acquainted with any of their workers, nor of their strong-arm tactics in dealing with their suppliers ...

But yeah - that's the American way all right!
 

I am very well acquainted with the the union's strong-arm tactics with Walmart. I am also familiar with Walmart's free choice to be non-union, and their employee's free choice to be non-union.

Walmart is hated by the unions simply because it is so large and so non-union. Being non-union is also the free choice of over 90% of all private sector workers. And for good reason!

I am aware that Walmart makes their suppliers become more efficient and more successful. The result is that Walmart passes the lower prices on to me! No supplier can be forced to sell to Walmart. Every single supplier does business with Walmart because they want to.

And Walmart cannot force anyone to shop at their stores, either. Yet people by the millions choose to shop at Walmart stores every day. And for good reason!

I am also well acquainted with Sam Walton's excellent life story and his rip-roaring success. His life was a fine example of the American way.

I shall restrain myself from reciting the rotten experiences I dealt with as a foolish, young, union member.
 
I wasn't really talking about unions, nor am I a fan of them - I saw first-hand how they abandoned my brother when he needed them the most. Unions may have had a place in the past with the horrendous working conditions, but with all the laws on the books these days it's the rare occupation that still requires them. Mainly I see them as a profit center for the organizers.

But I still have to disagree with your take on Wal-Mart. I think it's devolved a long way from when Sam Walton founded it, as any family business does.

Suppliers are not "forced" into doing business with W-M - rather, they are lured in by the promises of volume, and once they're contractually trapped they being to suffer. This has been written about many times - if you need the proof I'll hunt down the sources.

People shop at W-M every day by the millions because as Americans they've been conditioned to settle for less - less quality and less choice. W-M pays it's "associates" an average of $8.81/hr - and THAT is for less than full-time, because they don't want to have to offer benefits. That's not a living wage.

According to the Economic Policy Institute, Walmart’s trade with China alone eliminated 133,000 U.S. manufacturing jobs between 2001 and 2006 and accounted for 11.2 percent of the nation’s total job loss due to trade. But China is hardly the only source of Walmart goods: the company also imports from Bangladesh, Honduras, Cambodia, and a host of other countries.

W-M pushes American companies to move their operations overseas in order to meet the overhead costs associated with producing items that are offered at such low costs. This is how the average American buyer is duped: they think because the prices are low that's all they need concern themselves with, but those low prices won't help them when they lose their jobs CREATING those low prices.

They promote domestic sweatshop policy. For example, Louisiana seafood processor C.J.’s Seafood, which sells an estimated 85 percent of its processed crawfish to W-M, has recently come under scrutiny for allegedly abusing employees working in the U.S. on temporary immigrant visas (known as guestworker visas). A complaint to the U.S. Department of Labor claims that the W-M supplier “engaged in extremely coercive employment related actions, including forcing guestworkers to work up to 24-hour shifts with no overtime pay, locking guestworkers in the plant to force them to continue to work, threatening the guestworkers with beatings to make them work faster, and threatening violence against the guestworkers’ families in Mexico after workers contacted law enforcement for assistance.”

W-M squeezes American manufacturers out of business. W-M provided 30 percent of Vlasic Pickles’ overall business and insisted that if the company did not allow W-M to sell a gallon jar of pickles for the ruinously low price of $2.97, they would stop buying Vlasic’s other products. The pickle maker had spent decades convincing consumers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now W-M was practically giving them away. Vlasic’s profit margin from pickles shrunk 25 percent or more. Nor is Vlasic alone in seeing its business cannibalized by Walmart: of the top ten companies supplying Walmart in 1994, four sought bankruptcy protection by 2006.

They drive their competitors to utilize similar underhanded tactics in order to compete. K-Mart, Target and others have taken to slashing salaries and importing foreign crap in order to keep up with The Giant.

They're the new Robber Barons. Today the six members of the Walton family who inherited the W-M fortune enjoy wealth equal to that of the least-wealthy 30 percent of Americans combined. These billionaires are the ultimate beneficiaries of W-M’s push to cut costs, condemning retail employees to work in poverty and American factory workers to unemployment.

W-M has set the stage for many OTHER American companies to follow suit - to move their operations overseas, thus losing even more jobs.



"The American Way"? Hardly. Or, rather, yes, it IS the American Way of late - screw 'em all in the name of profit.
 
Well, I work with a bunch of left leaning people and I have given up trying to get them to see what is happening to American Society. They are just too sold out to the memes the media has created that have no basis in fact.

For example, every one thinks that Dan Quale was the stupidest VP we ever had but all he did was misspell potato and that was because an aid handed him a note card with it spelled that way. Compare that to what Joe Biden says every week and how the media says nothing.

How about the idea the the US invasion of Iraq was based on WMD's that our leaders made up. Well it turns out that when the FBI talked to Saddam he told them he did have an elaborate plan to make someone think he had WMD's but it was Iran not the west. So the US and UK intelligence agencies were fooled by his plan and the decision to invade based on that false data. The report came out ONCE and never was mentioned again.

How about the 2000 election and Florida's problem with hanging chads. Do you know that the Secretary of State of Florida did exactly what the law stated in recounting the punch cards and the whole thing found maybe a couple hundred questionable ballots after they handled them so much the other chads popped out. That same election California threw out a million absentee ballots because they would not have made a difference in the overall result. Most were from military people who likely voted Republican. Yet the press constantly screamed "COUNT EVERY VOTE" yet mentioned nothing about California's action because if those votes were counted W. would have won the popular vote. Also that same election I heard how 200 dead people had voted in Chicago - year after year.

In the same light, there is a current investigation in Ohio about people voting more than once. One is a veteran pole worker who freely admits to voting 6 times. Oh, don't look to CNN for this story, you only see it on Fox News (Oh but they are evil I don't watch them!).

Now I'm not trying to create an argument or convince anyone. I just wanted to make a point that we ALL are victims of misinformation (from all points) and the media are the ones to blame because overall they are just not doing their job.
 
It's an old song to blame Walmart (or other large companies) for the sins of their suppliers, but it doesn't hold water. Walmart has done much to bring their suppliers up to speed, and has quit using many because they wouldn't learn. Take it up with the shrimp company, not Walmart.

In fact, Walmart suspended CJ Foods and will permanently stop doing business with them if the charges prove true, per the NY Times in an old article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/30/b...afood-supplier-over-work-conditions.html?_r=0

As for the pickle company pickle, they can always say no. Some companies do decline to do business with Walmart. It's their choice to do as they please. Surely potential suppliers read the contract before entering into it! If not, is that Walmart's fault?

Walmart is importing because they have to if they are to be competitive - or better. It's the federal government that regulates such things. Free trade has been the rally cry of congress for better or worse. Take it up with them! Walmart is doing the same thing as thousands of other companies. Just because they are the biggest does not put them at fault!

Your anti-Walmart rant, Phil, can be found on many websites where Walmart is bashed regularly - mostly by leftist, anti-capitalist sorts who hate other people's success!

And I'm done with my side of this discussion. This sort of stuff can go on forever...
 
SifuPhil said:
What I'm thinking of here is your ability to refrain from commenting on certain life situations, when said comment would probably only serve to inflame the situation.

For example ... you're shopping at Wal-Mart (I truly don't know WHY you'd be there, but again that's another thread) and you see a mother yelling at her 5-year-old. Red in the face and evidently at her wit's end, she slaps the youngster in the face. Not hard enough to snap his head but hard enough to leave an angry red welt on his cheek.

Do you say something to her?

Your neighbor (not particularly a friend - more like an acquaintance) asks if you think her new dress suits her. The mental image of Dumbo in a tu-tu flashes through your mind - the similarities are amazing. Do you speak your mind, or decide that discretion is truly the better part of valor?

You're having lunch with a group of friends, and one of them makes a disparaging remark about your religion. Do you defend your faith to the end with a well-fought verbal battle, or do you just shrug your shoulders and continue munching on your watercress sandwich?

Do you find that your ability - or desire - to hold your tongue has increased, decreased or remained pretty much the same over the years?
Click to expand...

I never was known to butt into anyone's business, unless there was some very serious abuse taking place, and that hasn't happened yet.

I don't like to hear kids or mothers yelling in public places, and I frown on that behavior. But, I have to say that my mother put me in my place when needed, without any public displays that would put on a show for strangers. I got my slaps and spankings, usually in the home...that loving discipline from my mother made me behave in public. I wouldn't be doing anything that would demand yelling or hitting...just a glance from her 'evil eye' was good enough to put myself in check. :love_heart:

As far as religion, I'd just let it go. I hate people to try to convince others that their religion is the only one, etc., etc. I'd just continue munching on my BLT. :p

If it was a friend, I'd be more truthful about the dress, but if it was just a neighbor, I'd likely say 'very nice', maybe add I would choose another color if it was for me, and leave it at that.

I'm not a lover or hater of Walmart, they obviously have good business sense to be so successful. I shop there often, because I don't have a lot of money to throw away, and their prices are lower than other stores. I've been a blue collar worker all my life and a union member/union steward. I have no particular loyalty to unions, but the wages and conditions were good, and when someone was treated unfairly by the management, the problem could be resolved.
 
SeaBreeze said:
...just a glance from her 'evil eye' was good enough to put myself in check. :love_heart:
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OH, yeah ... the old-timers had that ability, didn't they?

As far as religion, I'd just let it go. I hate people to try to convince others that their religion is the only one, etc., etc. I'd just continue munching on my BLT. :p
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That's probably the safest course of action, unless of course your bacon is the topic of discussion ...

If it was a friend, I'd be more truthful about the dress, but if it was just a neighbor, I'd likely say 'very nice', maybe add I would choose another color if it was for me, and leave it at that.
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Very wise.

I'm not a lover or hater of Walmart, they obviously have good business sense to be so successful.
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I guess then that the same could be said of crack dealers ... I don't think it's necessarily good business sense - just ruthless.

I shop there often, because I don't have a lot of money to throw away, and their prices are lower than other stores. I've been a blue collar worker all my life and a union member/union steward. I have no particular loyalty to unions, but the wages and conditions were good, and when someone was treated unfairly by the management, the problem could be resolved.
Click to expand...

I'm glad the union has treated you fairly; unfortunately I've seen too much of the other side of the coin.
 
Better than Netflix today..
eating-popcorn-03.gif
 
Hey, just think how boring the world would be if we all had the same beliefs and opinions ...

Fishwisher was a perfect gentleman, we aired our different sides of the story and we parted (hopefully) friends. That's what a good forum SHOULD be, but rarely is.
 
That is true Phil, we/forum mambers (more often than not) do not agree on any given topic but in general this is a very civil place to hang out, discuss things and (gasp) maybe learn something.
 
SifuPhil said:
...Fishwisher was a perfect gentleman, we aired our different sides of the story and we parted (hopefully) friends. That's what a good forum SHOULD be, but rarely is.
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So right, Phil. (Me? A gentleman?! Don't tell too many folks as I have a reputation to maintain.)

In my old age have finally realized a truth that would have set me free many years ago. It doesn't matter what I think! Nope. Not a bit. All too often not even at home!

I can't think of anyone whose thinking I have changed. But it's fun to occasionally have a civil discussion about things even though nothing changes.

And every couple of years I cast my paltry vote which also has never, ever changed the outcome of anything. But I had my say. Can't really explain why I even bother!
 
FishWisher...I have realized this truth as well. Can't help spinning my wheels sometimes though, just like that darn exercycle. No matter how fast I peddle I still end up in the same spot.
 
FishWisher said:
So right, Phil. (Me? A gentleman?! Don't tell too many folks as I have a reputation to maintain.)

In my old age have finally realized a truth that would have set me free many years ago. It doesn't matter what I think! Nope. Not a bit. All too often not even at home!

I can't think of anyone whose thinking I have changed. But it's fun to occasionally have a civil discussion about things even though nothing changes.

And every couple of years I cast my paltry vote which also has never, ever changed the outcome of anything. But I had my say. Can't really explain why I even bother!
Click to expand...

Maybe I just haven't reached that point yet.

Not that what I think matters - I know it doesn't. But the part about changing others thinking - perhaps I'm just fooling myself, but as a teacher for so long and hearing back from my students after all this time I get the impression I've helped to change a few lives for the better. If I haven't, at least for one, then my life has been largely a waste. Sure, I sired two sons, but that's a simple biological function - anyone could have accomplished that.

My chosen philosophy of living - Taoism - tells me that life is cyclic, that we start off knowing nothing, become "educated" (and in the process think we know it all) and finally realize that we're back to the beginning, not knowing a blessed thing.

Emotionally (yeah, I still have them) I still believe that what I think is RIGHT and PROPER for EVERYONE, even while my rational, calculating, thinking mind tells me (in a Peter Lorre voice) "Shut up, you fool! I HATE you!"

I think I might be on the cusp of "knowing it all" and "knowing nothing". ;)
 
SifuPhil said:
No, not "restraint" in the sense of handcuffs and chains - that's for another thread. :cool:

What I'm thinking of here is your ability to refrain from commenting on certain life situations, when said comment would probably only serve to inflame the situation.

For example ... you're shopping at Wal-Mart (I truly don't know WHY you'd be there, but again that's another thread) and you see a mother yelling at her 5-year-old. Red in the face and evidently at her wit's end, she slaps the youngster in the face. Not hard enough to snap his head but hard enough to leave an angry red welt on his cheek.

Do you say something to her?
Click to expand...

Yes, in fact I've been in this situation quite a few times & always said something. Once I actually stepped in front of a father's face slap & intercepted it (on the arm)
I've always asked if they'd like me to stand with the kid until they've calmed down. The reactions were varied :playful: but I always made it clear that being a parent doesn't come natural to most, it's a learned thing. And mentioned that parenting classes helped me greatly.

Don't get me wrong, my 2 got their bottoms spanked.. although, most of the time all I needed to do was redirect them.

SifuPhil said:
Your neighbor (not particularly a friend - more like an acquaintance) asks if you think her new dress suits her. The mental image of Dumbo in a tu-tu flashes through your mind - the similarities are amazing. Do you speak your mind, or decide that discretion is truly the better part of valor?
Click to expand...

Well, she bought the dress because she liked it. So I would most likely say something to make her feel pretty in it.

SifuPhil said:
You're having lunch with a group of friends, and one of them makes a disparaging remark about your religion. Do you defend your faith to the end with a well-fought verbal battle, or do you just shrug your shoulders and continue munching on your watercress sandwich?
Click to expand...

Nah, I'd just gaze into their eyes & grin. (They'll know I'm thinkin' ya ass!)

SifuPhil said:
Do you find that your ability - or desire - to hold your tongue has increased, decreased or remained pretty much the same over the years?
Click to expand...

My ability/desire to hold my tongue has increased over the years.
 
Hello RZimm and FishWisher,

Reading this information or discussion on WalMart it makes me think of my trip to New Jersey this Christmas. Before I go on I must let you know that now I live in England (no WalMart but a company called Primark). To let you know that I was shocked...not only by WalMart but also by how much is made in China. If people keep buying cheap....or trying to get bargains at the expense of others it will effect the rest of society. Looking at the tactics of some companies...it makes you cringe. If you think that capitalism works you may consider the global economy which is destroying free enterprise. The power some companies have will make all of us slaves...I feel there has to be a system which is neither socialism nor capitalism but a new system. I've been researching it but still haven't found a satisfactory solution.

As companies avoid tax and globally exploit both the workers in the East and make a profit in the West I think it's time to reflect on our bias to capitalism. Also, we've gotten to a point where consumerism is the only interest we have. How many shoes or bags does a woman need? Would you want to live next door to a WalMart?
Sincerely, Nina
 
Walking by the Thames said:
Hello RZimm and FishWisher,

Reading this information or discussion on WalMart it makes me think of my trip to New Jersey this Christmas. Before I go on I must let you know that now I live in England (no WalMart but a company called Primark). To let you know that I was shocked...not only by WalMart but also by how much is made in China. If people keep buying cheap....or trying to get bargains at the expense of others it will effect the rest of society. Looking at the tactics of some companies...it makes you cringe. If you think that capitalism works you may consider the global economy which is destroying free enterprise. The power some companies have will make all of us slaves...I feel there has to be a system which is neither socialism nor capitalism but a new system. I've been researching it but still haven't found a satisfactory solution.

As companies avoid tax and globally exploit both the workers in the East and make a profit in the West I think it's time to reflect on our bias to capitalism. Also, we've gotten to a point where consumerism is the only interest we have. How many shoes or bags does a woman need? Would you want to live next door to a WalMart?
Sincerely, Nina
Click to expand...

People will always shop for bargains. That's just how we're wired. Capitalism caters to the human condition as it really is. Socialism or whatever blend you may have in mind requires the might of the state to force people to work for something other than their own best interests. It ain't gonna work. It never has. Look to Cuba or North Korea for socialism in full bloom!

A free woman should have as many shoes or handbags as she wants and can afford. Others will line up to produce them for her, and happily take her money - and all involved are doing so by free choice. And do you think government is going to improve on that system?

You see companies as exploiters of the workers. I see companies as my suppliers who hire workers who otherwise don't have jobs. Those companies and their workers, not government, have made our lives very comfortable, indeed. And they compete with one another for my business, generally keeping the price of their products fair to the consumer.

Granted, the system is flawed by human greed, but face it: "greed" it why we all spend our lives working to get ahead. Getting ahead in this world is a good and natural thing and has made our world a much better place! Today's capitalism is wonderfully improved over the horrors of the past.

As companies avoid taxes?! It's 100% legal to avoid taxes and I have done so all my life. And I'd avoid a lot more taxes if Wifey would only agree to move out of Kalifornistan!

oops. I said I was done with this subject. And now I am. Lord knows this grand salute to capitalism won't change anyone's mind!

P.S. Bill Whittle says it better than I ever could: http://www.youtube.com/embed/OAOrT0OcHh0?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showi

(And now, on to my glorious hot tub, filled with water heated by my local electric company and its underpaid workers. Then a drive to Walmart in my nice, economical car made by Ford with the help of exploited workers all over the world, to buy food we need at low prices, produced by starving farm workers. ;) Life is good!)
 
Hello FishWisher,
Would you read the book "Greed, Inc." and let me know if it makes you realise what is happening to our society. There are some of us who think it's time to look at our values as well as how to live exceptionally well. If most of the world is living in poverty and only a small portion lives in prosperity well you have to begin thinking something is not right. Or maybe Americans feel that their entitlement is part of their rights no matter what. When do people become content? But more seriously the changes that are occurring are inevitable. America with the rest of the Western World needs to take a hard look at today's market forces.

If I were to choose where to live in the world with the highest standard of living it would be Sweden or maybe Norway because they have very good programs for their people. Each society has strengths and weaknesses but I believe that a nation that only thinks of greed will ultimately collapse. We must agree to disagree but I hope the tables aren't turned and that Americans will some day be in bread lines.
:rolleyes:
 

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