The problem with religion

Mr. Ed

Mr. Ed

Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
Location
Central NY
The problem with religion is the idea we must follow someone other than ourselves to be free.

It is not a difficult task to make a list of items you feel are worth celebrating or expressing your concern about another person or circumstance. This may be the only way to help in a situation beyond your control.
I made my own list for spiritual health and connectedness.
To start with-meditate 5 minutes a day (increase time of meditation without restrictions) One thing I disagree with is putting timelines to gauge progress. It is not about time it is about the quality of meditation. Eventually time will not be factor but for now time teaches me endurance.
Give thanks and gratitude
Express concerns for people, situations and circumstances
Be open minded with a pure heart.
There you have it my very own belief system.
Services begin upon your arrival.
 

When we had our meditation times in the monastery they went almost exactly the same as your own way of "centering".

meditate 15 minutes twice a day (increase time of meditation without restrictions) ( It is not about time it is about the quality of
meditation. ) Eventually time will not be factor
Give thanks and gratitude ( with bowing and chanting )
Express concerns for people, situations and circumstances ( The Bodhisattva Vow )
Be open minded with a pure heart. Our mantra "Mind empty, heart open, body dancing" :)
 
Probably the biggest problem with religion is that far too often, people who profess to a belief do terrible things. They do things contrary to their supposed belief system, or things with no regard to it, and it looks hypocritical and shallow. Just look at our governments. Money surpassed a God belief a long time ago, and it's that which drives people these days.

I also don't appreciate being seen as a lesser person just because I don't believe in a God. If actual concrete evidence of a God comes to light, THEN I'll believe. But not before. If that makes me lesser, then so be it. In fact, I had a very good friend, I also worked with him. We'd lunch together, study together etc. However, because he was Jewish, he didn't like me at his home. In fact, in the years I knew him (he was in the US) I never got to visit, although he visited me. I always found that strange.

A God belief does provide comfort to people though. If you've had trials in the here and now, it can help to imagine that at the end, something good will happen, that evil people will suffer, and the good people will rejoice. Of course, every religion has their own version of this, so someone's wrong!

Religion also attempts to answer questions science can't. How was the world formed? Where did man, animals, and plants come from? Religion claims to know, and spells it out. None of that makes any sense to me, but it seems to provide believers with a clear idea of who they are in time and space.

Humans are inquisitive creatures, and we simply must know everything we can. Religion provides answers for believers.
 

VaughanJB said:
I also don't appreciate being seen as a lesser person just because I don't believe in a God. If actual concrete evidence of a God comes to light, THEN I'll believe. But not before. If that makes me lesser, then so be it. In fact, I had a very good friend, I also worked with him. We'd lunch together, study together etc. However, because he was Jewish, he didn't like me at his home. In fact, in the years I knew him (he was in the US) I never got to visit, although he visited me. I always found that strange.
Click to expand...
He couldn't have been too religious if he shared lunch with you. If he were religious, and kosher, he might not want a goy in his home as you might be treif for his family, but only the Ultra Orthodox would feel that way, and only rarely do.

Because he was Jewish and didn't want you in his home is absurd. There's more to this.
 
Pepper said:
He couldn't have been too religious if he shared lunch with you. If he were religious, and kosher, he might not want a goy in his home as you might be treif for his family, but only the Ultra Orthodox would feel that way, and only rarely do.

Because he was Jewish and didn't want you in his home is absurd. There's more to this.
Click to expand...

His name was Zevi, maybe you could ask him. :D

He also couldn't do much Friday sunset through sunrise the next day, because using electricity wasn't allowed (shabbat). Which worked out for him, because he never got lumbered with that late Friday call that would keep you in the office until the early hours.

He used to bring a packed lunch, by the way, while I had a purchased lunch.

Zevi was a nice guy, funny, and smart. I very much enjoyed his company, and I included him in the dedication of one of my books. Clearly we had fundamental differences in beliefs, but person to person he was fun to be around.
 
Some Ultra Orthodox are really Ultra. When my son's friend was a little, Regular, Jewish boy he was was not allowed in an Ultra kid's home for longer than a minute because he was considered treif (dirt, or something to be thrown out) and he was Jewish, but not the right kind.

So, there is your answer.
 
Pepper said:
Some Ultra Orthodox are really Ultra. When my son's friend was a little, Regular, Jewish boy he was was not allowed in an Ultra kid's home for longer than a minute because he was considered treif (dirt, or something to be thrown out) and he was Jewish, but not the right kind.

So, there is your answer.
Click to expand...

To be fair, I think there's an undercurrent of this with Christians in the US. I'm not saying the US is as extreme as Iran or Afghanistan (of course!!) but there are certainly parts that are threatening to go that way. There are no avowed atheists in Congress, and there's never been an atheist President. The vast majority profess Christianity of different variations (Catholic, etc.). They number 88% of members. It's not that different from the make up of governments in other, less desirable, places.
 
VaughanJB said:
Probably the biggest problem with religion is that far too often, people who profess to a belief do terrible things. They do things contrary to their supposed belief system, or things with no regard to it, and it looks hypocritical and shallow. Just look at our governments. Money surpassed a God belief a long time ago, and it's that which drives people these days.
Click to expand...
There are all kinds of people in the world. Let it go. That's them. You are you. And we're all sinners. That certainly includes me.
We need to stop trying to tidy up others. That time should be spent tidying up ourselves.

VaughanJB said:
I also don't appreciate being seen as a lesser person just because I don't believe in a God. If actual concrete evidence of a God comes to light, THEN I'll believe. But not before. If that makes me lesser, then so be it. In fact, I had a very good friend, I also worked with him. We'd lunch together, study together etc. However, because he was Jewish, he didn't like me at his home. In fact, in the years I knew him (he was in the US) I never got to visit, although he visited me. I always found that strange.
Click to expand...
You're not a lesser person. We're all sinners. Some may feel lost. Some may feel found. But that's one's individual choice.
We need to stop being the judge. We need to mind our own "house". We need stop gossiping about others.

VaughanJB said:
A God belief does provide comfort to people though. If you've had trials in the here and now, it can help to imagine that at the end, something good will happen, that evil people will suffer, and the good people will rejoice. Of course, every religion has their own version of this, so someone's wrong!
Click to expand...
Good people don't rejoice over other people's suffering. If they do they aren't being good.

VaughanJB said:
Religion also attempts to answer questions science can't. How was the world formed? Where did man, animals, and plants come from? Religion claims to know, and spells it out. None of that makes any sense to me, but it seems to provide believers with a clear idea of who they are in time and space.

Humans are inquisitive creatures, and we simply must know everything we can. Religion provides answers for believers.
Click to expand...
Science also attempts to answer questions they haven't yet answered. It's called study, using our brains, etc
Those people who you say claim to "know" are "knowing" by having a strong faith with personal experiences of validation.
Of course they haven't ruled out that there are a lot of unanswered questions....they don't have their heads in the sand.

And please don't throw all believers into one "religious" stereotype. We're all uniquely made.
 
At least in a broad sense, there seems to frequently be a public misconception that all Christians are the same, and all Jews are the same.

Although from a nominal Christian background, I had two good Jewish friends in high school who could barely stand to be in one another’s presence; one was an orthodox and the other a reformed Jew. The Orthodox Jew warmly invited me into his home, where his idea of a fun time was to want to show me his stamp collection, and teach me words in Yiddish. The Reformed Jew howled at this, and was a very hip guy. The blatant differences in them were more a function of their personalities and family backgrounds, however, than of religious variables…
 
Fyrefox said:
At least in a broad sense, there seems to frequently be a public misconception that all Christians are the same, and all Jews are the same.
Click to expand...
This might be the wrong thread, but it is the Ultra's starting all the trouble in the West Bank and the people Netanyahu has aligned himself with.
 
Lara said:
There are all kinds of people in the world. Let it go. That's them. You are you. And we're all sinners. That certainly includes me.
We need to stop trying to tidy up others. That time should be spent tidying up ourselves.


You're not a lesser person. We're all sinners. Some may feel lost. Some may feel found. But that's one's individual choice.
We need to stop being the judge. We need to mind our own "house". We need stop gossiping about others.


Good people don't rejoice over other people's suffering. If they do they aren't being good.


Science also attempts to answer questions they haven't yet answered. It's called study, using our brains, etc
Those people who you say claim to "know" are "knowing" by having a strong faith with personal experiences of validation.
Of course they haven't ruled out that there are a lot of unanswered questions....they don't have their heads in the sand.

And please don't throw all believers into one "religious" stereotype. We're all uniquely made.
Click to expand...
I sincerely appreciate your stereotyping, however, each one of us here come from different backgrounds with different circumstances that make us all unique. With that said your tone seems condescending as if you know it all. You don’t, nor do I but it makes a good discussion that has no answers or perhaps meaning at the end of it all.
Perhaps this hoopla is meaningless, the human race was fooled by a higher intelligence that has lived among us from the beginning of time. This so-called being or beings control all we see and do for the cause and good of their species. This what I believe and everyone should believe this malarky as I do, one mind, one spirit
 
Lara said:
And please don't throw all believers into one "religious" stereotype. We're all uniquely made.
Click to expand...

I agree, but for the purposes of discussing religion on a forum, it's difficult to account for every personality type. Therefore, generalization is a useful tool.

I hate the idea we're born sinners. I agree we could, and should, all do better. It takes work, effort, and time talking and caring about people with different views and opinions.
 
Pepper said:
This might be the wrong thread, but it is the Ultra's starting all the trouble in the West Bank and the people Netanyahu has aligned himself with.
Click to expand...
I have tried to understand the Netanyahu government. I have seen that it is based on some kind of religious Jewish group and Kenesit (sp?) is a religious governing body. That would make your comment important for this thread. The God...Yahweh, has been described as Light. He is the Light in the Darkness. If I think about darkness I think of horrible things that life brings us. Maybe it is Satan, or just the way nature has made things, but it entails intense suffering. Light shines in that darkness and it disappears. So God is a force that when active dispels the darkness and suffering. I saw this Jewish man last night describing Netanyahu in terms of Light and Dark in a religious way.
I contemplate this kind of understanding. It is important to me to active for being "light" and maybe relieve some suffering if possible. Anyway this seems like an appropriate talk for this thread.

 
oldaunt said:
Good people don't rejoice over other people's suffering. If they do they aren't being good.

This. Remember it when you laugh at someone else's distress and call it karma.....
Click to expand...
Especially when 'karma' hits them, then it's not karma anymore, is it? It becomes something else, with someone else's karma hurting them. All BS, and hypocrisy
 
I took a Religions class in high school, taught by the well-respected psychology teacher. Most parents became enraged when they found out that he was an atheist, actually tried getting him fired. It covered all forms of beliefs including the ancient to modern astrology. It was a very fascinating class. In the end he sat in front of the school board at a packed meeting to defend himself. Made a short statement and walked out.
" I am an educator and take pride in my job to provide just the facts as known. I honestly feel I'm the best instructor to teach this class as I have no personal dog in the fight."
He kept his job.
 
Pepper said:
Especially when 'karma' hits them, then it's not karma anymore, is it? It becomes something else, with someone else's karma hurting them. All BS, and hypocrisy
Click to expand...
I believe this to be absolutely true: "Whatsoever you sow, that shall you reap!" Some call it Karma, as if it were something spiritual. I call it suffering the consequences of a stupid or hurtful decision. It will always catch up with you, one way or the other!
 
Mr. Ed said:
The problem with religion is the idea we must follow someone other than ourselves to be free.

It is not a difficult task to make a list of items you feel are worth celebrating or expressing your concern about another person or circumstance. This may be the only way to help in a situation beyond your control.
I made my own list for spiritual health and connectedness.
To start with-meditate 5 minutes a day (increase time of meditation without restrictions) One thing I disagree with is putting timelines to gauge progress. It is not about time it is about the quality of meditation. Eventually time will not be factor but for now time teaches me endurance.
Give thanks and gratitude
Express concerns for people, situations and circumstances
Be open minded with a pure heart.
There you have it my very own belief system.
Services begin upon your arrival.
Click to expand...
sign me up.
 
VaughanJB said:
Probably the biggest problem with religion is that far too often, people who profess to a belief do terrible things. They do things contrary to their supposed belief system, or things with no regard to it, and it looks hypocritical and shallow. Just look at our governments. Money surpassed a God belief a long time ago, and it's that which drives people these days.

I also don't appreciate being seen as a lesser person just because I don't believe in a God. If actual concrete evidence of a God comes to light, THEN I'll believe. But not before. If that makes me lesser, then so be it. In fact, I had a very good friend, I also worked with him. We'd lunch together, study together etc. However, because he was Jewish, he didn't like me at his home. In fact, in the years I knew him (he was in the US) I never got to visit, although he visited me. I always found that strange.

A God belief does provide comfort to people though. If you've had trials in the here and now, it can help to imagine that at the end, something good will happen, that evil people will suffer, and the good people will rejoice. Of course, every religion has their own version of this, so someone's wrong!

Religion also attempts to answer questions science can't. How was the world formed? Where did man, animals, and plants come from? Religion claims to know, and spells it out. None of that makes any sense to me, but it seems to provide believers with a clear idea of who they are in time and space.

Humans are inquisitive creatures, and we simply must know everything we can. Religion provides answers for believers.
Click to expand...
I am a believer yet can't get some answers that are important to me from the Bible. It starts with creation in general (everything coming into existence in six days) and ends with the problematic (to me) story of Adam and Eve!

In the light of what science has revealed I find it hard to believe that many actually believe this. I wouldn't even mention my doubts if Genesis hadn't affected my whole view of the "inerrancy" of the Bible and to me, as a new believer, caused many inner struggles!

On one hand I was told by some Christian magazines and preachers: Believe every word. The Bible was written by God and is therefore infallible, on the other hand, my brain kept stuttering ... but ... but ...! And still does. Thank God for the New Testament! That keeps my faith going!
 
VaughanJB said:
Probably the biggest problem with religion is that far too often, people who profess to a belief do terrible things. They do things contrary to their supposed belief system, or things with no regard to it, and it looks hypocritical and shallow. Just look at our governments. Money surpassed a God belief a long time ago, and it's that which drives people these days.

I also don't appreciate being seen as a lesser person just because I don't believe in a God. If actual concrete evidence of a God comes to light, THEN I'll believe. But not before. If that makes me lesser, then so be it. In fact, I had a very good friend, I also worked with him. We'd lunch together, study together etc. However, because he was Jewish, he didn't like me at his home. In fact, in the years I knew him (he was in the US) I never got to visit, although he visited me. I always found that strange.

everything we can. Religion provides answers for believers.
Click to expand...
Do you really think he wouldn't let you in because he was Jewish? I grew up in an area that was literally 50% Jewish. All of my best friends were Jewish- still are, actually! There are Jewish folks in my family. I've never encountered that. Not even once. Sounds like it was due to something else- maybe weird parents?
 
Mr. Ed said:
I sincerely appreciate your stereotyping, however, each one of us here come from different backgrounds with different circumstances that make us all unique. With that said your tone seems condescending as if you know it all. You don’t, nor do I but it makes a good discussion that has no answers or perhaps meaning at the end of it all.
Perhaps this hoopla is meaningless, the human race was fooled by a higher intelligence that has lived among us from the beginning of time. This so-called being or beings control all we see and do for the cause and good of their species. This what I believe and everyone should believe this malarky as I do, one mind, one spirit
Click to expand...

I agree that my post #8 was quite blunt and direct. It's not my usual approach but sometimes, especially when responding to someone who is equally bold, I'm unwilling to compromise my opinions and beliefs by sugar coating it. He took it without a whimper and I have respect for him in doing so and for his post #13. We both spoke our own version of truth and respected one another.
`
 
I am taking to creating my own type of worship. I got the idea from researching paganism and choosing one’s own path. I appreciate Native American wisdom and respect for life. There are many books about Native American religion, gods, spirits etc.
My previous list included meditation, practices and education. By applying indigenous ceremonies and culture will fulfill my spiritual growth and understanding
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top