The Real Reason For Mass Murder

Ruthanne

Ruthanne

Caregiver
Location
Midwest
Please read this article. It tells so much that makes sense and that is true about regulating one's anger response!
Here is the link:

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...iolence_is_past_violence_but_mindfulness.html

To speak about mental health in this way reflects an inaccurate understanding of what mental illness is. We have been through this debate many times before. Over the span of a lifetime, the average American has a 47.4 percent chance of having some kind of mental disorder. The number of Americans who will go on to be violent in such a fashion is certainly extremely far from 1 in 2. Equating mental illness and an extreme propensity for violence is both inaccurate and damaging to how we perceive mental illness. The National Rifle Association has promoted the mental illness hypothesis for years, suggesting that if we had better mental health treatment, these mass killings could be stopped. It has even been suggested that we should ban people with a history of mental illness from buying weapons and that we should arm ourselves against them. The ban on weapons for dangerously violent people is an excellent suggestion but has been directed at the wrong group. Violent crimes committed by people with mental illness get a lot of attention. But they are rare enough that if all the violent crime perpetrated by those with mental illness were eliminated, 96 percent of violent crime would continue . Please read article.
 

There is no form of mental illness that predicts murderous behavior. Violence is not a product of mental illness. Violent crimes are committed by violent people, people who are unable to manage their anger.​
 
When I click that Slate link I get a blank page :confused:
 

Ruthanne said:
There is no form of mental illness that predicts murderous behavior. Violence is not a product of mental illness. Violent crimes are committed by violent people, people who are unable to manage their anger
​
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Hi Ruthanne, the link in your first post didn't work, but I think we can move forward anyway. " Violent crimes are committed by violent people," I can buy that.

The definition of mental health needs to be refined, to distinguish between "crazy" and the truly mentally ill. I see violent people as being crazy, and certainly having issues, but not necessarily falling into the category of being eligible for the insanity defense. The fact that an angry or perhaps potentially violent person can stay under the radar, related to screening for firearm purchase eligibility, is both frustrating and eludes a meaningful solution.
 
From the article:
"In the early hours of Sunday, June 12, a tragically familiar story unfolded. A lone shooter entered a gay bar in Orlando, Florida, one he had visited a dozen times before, and opened fire on patrons with a semi-automatic weapon. He murdered 49 people and injured dozens more. It was an act many would describe as both cowardly and horrifying, an act that defies not only logic, but human decency, and yet one we have seen played out over and over in recent years.Mass murders with assault weapons are now occurring with a frequency of once every couple of months in the United States. Each time the same questions are raised. How could anyone do this? What could motivate them? Could this violence have been prevented? We search for an explanation to the inexplicable, but often, we are looking in the wrong places. Frighteningly, any of us is capable of this. All that sets the rest of us apart from a murderer is the ability to regulate our angry impulses."


 
The term mental illness, innocence , guilt are legal terms, at least in the US. Regrettably they are used out of context. You cannot legislate mental illness, remove it by legislation, or in most cases define it. Certain attributes can be addressed. Danger to themselves or others or manage their daily lives.

The news services Vox, Slate,Salon are to use Tntthomas definition left of left wing
 
rt3 said:
The term mental illness, innocence , guilt are legal terms, at least in the US. Regrettably they are used out of context. You cannot legislate mental illness, remove it by legislation, or in most cases define it. Certain attributes can be addressed. Danger to themselves or others or manage their daily lives.

The news services Vox, Slate,Salon are to use Tntthomas definition left of left wing
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Anger is being addressed in the article. Anyone can get angry and some can go out of control with it and not be mentally ill.
 
Ruthanne said:
Anger is being addressed in the article. Anyone can get angry and some can go out of control with it and not be mentally ill.
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Thats correct

terms mentally ill are used in a court of law to determine the competency of ,
when your called as an expert witness your asked if so and so meets certain criteria
it's about the only time the term means anything.

some mass murderers believe their victims are sub human and anger doesn't fit into the regular profile
 
people can be left wing on some issues and right wing on others. So what are they if the ave. 50% middle of the roaders

The terms don't have any meaning any more.

The poster made a reference to Vox a news sevice. the news services Slate and Salon are even left of you Tntthomas . Not making a value judgement just sayin
 
Interesting article. I don't know how it can be determined for sure anger vs. mental illness--but I know several people with anger issues and their thought processes are a little "off". I do have to agree with you that not many mentally ill people are violent, but of course there are some. Mental illness encompasses a lot of problems, which ones are considered "illness" not sure. But I think it is unfair to blame mental illness for everything that goes on today. It gives the impression that all are to be feared.
 
Carla said:
Interesting article. I don't know how it can be determined for sure anger vs. mental illness--but I know several people with anger issues and their thought processes are a little "off". I do have to agree with you that not many mentally ill people are violent, but of course there are some. Mental illness encompasses a lot of problems, which ones are considered "illness" not sure. But I think it is unfair to blame mental illness for everything that goes on today. It gives the impression that all are to be feared.
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Thought processes being off also are not necessarily mental illness and I know you didn't say that it was but just sayin. People can undergo Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to help with their thoughts depending on what problem they are having with their thoughts. And getting help for thinking/anger problems does not have to be associated with a mental illness.

You are right that not many mentally ill are violent and it sure is unfair to blame/fear those who happen to have a mental illness for all the heinous things that go on now a days.
 
I know two men with anger issues, without a doubt. They are narcissists and maybe a little paranoid. The last thing they would admit to is that they have a problem or would they ever consider help. Hell no. They will try to get even if you cross them. They will bring up situations from years back as they cannot let anything go. People that know them, avoid them. People they first meet, find them charming. Their perception of reality is different. They also tend to use people, try and get people to do things for them and as soon as you are unable, they get mad. One was an ex and one a neighbor. You say anger and mental illness aren't closely related? I think it starts as anger then can lead to other behaviors. Either that or anger is one symptom of their illness. They will say and do the nastiest things to their victims and they have no empathy for anyone except for themselves. Thank God that neighbor moved a couple years ago and that I don't have to deal with my ex--that is the best way to deal with people like that--avoidance. No one can fix them, as they are hopeless. They are miserable and want to make everyone else miserable because nothing, absolutely nothing is or ever was, their fault.
 
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Carla said:
I know two men with anger issues, without a doubt. They are narcissists and maybe a little paranoid. The last thing they would admit to is that they have a problem or would they ever consider help. Hell no. They will try to get even if you cross them. They will bring up situations from years back as they cannot let anything go. People that know them, avoid them. People they first meet, find them charming. Their perception of reality is different. They also tend to use people, try and get people to do things for them and as soon as you are unable, they get mad. One was an ex and one a neighbor. You say anger and mental illness aren't closely related? I think it starts as anger then can lead to other behaviors. Either that or anger is one symptom of their illness. They will say and do the nastiest things to their victims and they have no empathy for anyone except for themselves. Thank God that neighbor moved a couple years ago and that I don't have to deal with my ex--that is the best way to deal with people like that--avoidance. No one can fix them, as they are hopeless. They are miserable and want to make everyone else miserable because nothing, absolutely nothing is or ever was, their fault.
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I have known people like that, too. One that beat me and pulled a gun on me and pulled the hammer back on the gun and threatened to kill me and threw me out of my own home, later he also shot a bullet in the floor right next to where I was sleeping in the bedroom and threatened me, too. His problem was drug abuse and anger that went with it. So I well know what people are like who get violent and angry and the mentally ill I know are not like that, the greater majority that is. I agree with the article that 96% of them are not mentally ill. Yes, there are the around 4% who are.
 
Ruthanne said:
I have known people like that, too. One that beat me and pulled a gun on me and pulled the hammer back on the gun and threatened to kill me and threw me out of my own home, later he also shot a bullet in the floor right next to where I was sleeping in the bedroom and threatened me, too. His problem was drug abuse and anger that went with it. So I well know what people are like who get violent and angry and the mentally ill I know are not like that, the greater majority that is. I agree with the article that 96% of them are not mentally ill. Yes, there are the around 4% who are.
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What an experience that must have been! Hoping he is out of your life today, no one deserves to be treated that way. Sometimes I have compassion for addicts, other times not so much. I do understand that alcoholism can even run in families and is considered an illness. However, it is still a choice to live that way and hurt and destroy the lives of the ones you love. When I was in my early twenties, my Mother's alcoholic boyfriend held a gun to my head and laughed--I don't remember what he said but I do recall telling him to go ahead and pull the trigger. He wanted to control me too but I figured I didn't have to put up with his BS so I didn't react. She put up with him for years and alienated everyone. I just made appearances every so often to check he didn't hurt her, he was mean and abusive. So I can at least relate to a small part of your fear. Yes, it is possible that only 4% are violent, but we have more of these angry, abusive types of personalities, if they're not ill, should they be considered normal? I've heard a lot of excuses from people as to why they drink excessively (and I do mean pass-out drunk) but life throws us all curve balls we have to deal with. Drugs or alcohol might temporary dull the pain but sometimes feeling that pain for a while helps us to heal and move on.
 
When my brother murdered his neighbors, there were two reasons. First, two doctors gave him too many mind altering drugs which he was taking simultaneously. Second was the overbearing religion we were raised with that said no matter what you did you would be damned to hell. It came together in an awful mix. There is no one reason for murder. Just like there is no one reason people do any given thing. Humans and their behavior are complex. As some of you know my brother died in prison last month after 36 plus years of incarceration. I grieved for him at the time of the murders as well as those he killed. I grieve for him now at the time of his death. If you want to read my experiences with murder, I can provide you with a link to my book about it which will be out in October.
 
Often, I have wondered how both families survive these terrible tragedies. Of course you grieved for your brother. Whatever caused him to do what he did, it doesn't change the fact he was your brother and you loved him. I am sorry for your loss. Wishing you peace and sending you a giant HUG.
 
Carla said:
Often, I have wondered how both families survive these terrible tragedies. Of course you grieved for your brother. Whatever caused him to do what he did, it doesn't change the fact he was your brother and you loved him. I am sorry for your loss. Wishing you peace and sending you a giant HUG.
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Thanks, it was horrific. But like all bad things it helps us grow, if we take it as an opportunity for such things. We can become better people from our individual tragedies. That way they aren't for nothing.
 
Carla said:
What an experience that must have been! Hoping he is out of your life today, no one deserves to be treated that way. Sometimes I have compassion for addicts, other times not so much. I do understand that alcoholism can even run in families and is considered an illness. However, it is still a choice to live that way and hurt and destroy the lives of the ones you love. When I was in my early twenties, my Mother's alcoholic boyfriend held a gun to my head and laughed--I don't remember what he said but I do recall telling him to go ahead and pull the trigger. He wanted to control me too but I figured I didn't have to put up with his BS so I didn't react. She put up with him for years and alienated everyone. I just made appearances every so often to check he didn't hurt her, he was mean and abusive. So I can at least relate to a small part of your fear. Yes, it is possible that only 4% are violent, but we have more of these angry, abusive types of personalities, if they're not ill, should they be considered normal? I've heard a lot of excuses from people as to why they drink excessively (and I do mean pass-out drunk) but life throws us all curve balls we have to deal with. Drugs or alcohol might temporary dull the pain but sometimes feeling that pain for a while helps us to heal and move on.
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Yes, he is out of my life today. I used to check on the death registry to see if he was still alive and then I came across his daughter's profile on Facebook and saw she had pictures of him on her page. Anyhow I connected with her and she told her father and he wanted to talk to me on the phone and I agreed to. I thought maybe he would apologize to me after all of these years but he did not. He told me he had cancer. He also tried to intimidate me over the phone. I saw on his daughter's page that he died and that night I had a nightmare and I felt all of this fear and I thought his spirit had come to try and get into me. I woke up and felt the intense fear really bad still and it was a bright yellow ball above my stomach I felt and then I fought that fear to not be in me any more and let go of that fear/terror and realize it was the terror I had felt from him for over 30 years. The terror is gone now and so is he. He intimidated me a whole lot way back when and all of that is gone from me now. There is a whole lot more to the story about him but I won't go into it now. He was a very mean man and when he disagreed with you he'd attack you physically.
 
Phoenix said:
When my brother murdered his neighbors, there were two reasons. First, two doctors gave him too many mind altering drugs which he was taking simultaneously. Second was the overbearing religion we were raised with that said no matter what you did you would be damned to hell. It came together in an awful mix. There is no one reason for murder. Just like there is no one reason people do any given thing. Humans and their behavior are complex. As some of you know my brother died in prison last month after 36 plus years of incarceration. I grieved for him at the time of the murders as well as those he killed. I grieve for him now at the time of his death. If you want to read my experiences with murder, I can provide you with a link to my book about it which will be out in October.
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There are motives for murders and circumstances and people have histories and people can be on drugs/medicines that effect them, too. I am sorry for your loss.
 
Ruthanne, at least now you can move on, mediate away the stress and fear. Otherwise, if we don't find a way to dissolve it, it ruins the rest of our lives, and I for one, don't intend to allow the ones who have put me in such a state to continue to control me. Here's a link to a meditation on youtube that I find helpful. I'm doing it daily now that my brother has died. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-bavbcbf9I


 

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