The Roman Catholic Church. A respectful, civil, sharing of thoughts.

Nemo2 said:
Guns are tools......they can be used to take lives or save lives.......if people were systematically being killed by hammers would you hate hammers too?
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But other than in Idi Amin's Uganda, people have not been systematically killed with hammers have they?
 

multimodAL said:
wow! i'm going to have to read that again @Magna-Carta, like the rivers of possible outcomes swirling with eddies, bubbling with life, intermingled with the vast influence of others. i would hope some day we could all figure it out.

i gave up all understanding and release myself from any determination which frees me from that need (sweet dreams!)

btw, i've gained quite a bit of insight through our exchanges which fills me with wonder... thank you
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“wonder…” It’s a wonderful thing, it really is. As adults many of us don’t do enough of it! As young children many of us might have been filled with wonder of the things we see around us. Many lose that as they get older.

As a young child I would observe the adults around me, trying to figure out why they didn’t see the things that I did. Or think or ask similar questions I did. Where did their curiosity go? As a child this troubled me; I would look at the adults around me & think, “one day I might end up like them!” I thought how I might prevent this from happening.

I thought all these adults around me must have been children at some point; what happened for them to be so far removed from their younger selves. Why don’t they understand where I’m coming from sometimes – why do some of them not want to even try to understand, or when they do try then give up. They must be too busy with their own adult lives & thoughts & adult perceptions to remember what it’s like to be a child. I was determined not to be the same.

As a young child I made a promise to myself that I would never forget what it was it’s like to be a child. I was determined to do my own thinking & not be overly influenced by the adults I came in contact with. This also included people of religion, especially religion. I was going to try to figure this out for myself.

I thought that the only way I’m going to remember what it’s like to be a child would be to keep going over my young thoughts, reasoning’s & experiences so I don’t forget them. As child I was also aware of how difficult that might be, & that I still might end up falling into the ‘adult trap’, but regardless, I was determined. When I become older I encouraged young children around me to do the same; to never forget their younger selves. Some of them, as they got older, later thanked me for it. Children get along with me really well. We have some fascinating conversation. Some are more grown up than many realise.

Anyway, after all that above, I’m now going to grab a large soft pillow & run along my polished floor hallway to it to see how far I can slide along to the other end. I’ve got a lot of important errands to do too. But first things first, I need to get that pillow, and may be a tape measure! I’ll catch you later.
 
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Warrigal said:
Now you are being very silly.

It was not the Flavor-aid that killed. It was poison added to it.
That is already a controlled substance.
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And it's not guns that kill people it's the bullets put in them.......see how it works?

"Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite them, and little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum."

Jonathan Swift.
 
It is a weak argument to say that people kill other people without acknowledging that some 'tools' enable them to kill many more people at once.

Bombs and automatic or semi automatic weapons with very large capacity cartridges give one man the capacity to kill tens of people at a time.

That much is an observable fact. What action to take, if any, is a decision.
 
oldaunt said:
It still mystifies me why today's young people refuse to use any form of birth control to avoid NEEDING an abortion. There are so MANY to choose from.
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Birth control isn't infallible. All methods except hysterectomies have some failure rate - even "the pill" when used perfectly is 99% effective. When used by humans who occasionally miss a pill or don't take it at the same time every day, the effective rate drops to 93%. Vasectomies are 99.99% effective, but not 100% because sometimes the tubes rejoin.

I got pregnant with twins while using birth control. Many women I know had an unplanned pregnancy while using birth control.
 
Returning to the OP's question about the Roman Catholic church, I have many relatives and a few friends who are (or were before they died) devout Catholics. All good, kind, caring people, by the way.

I wasn't raised Catholic so their traditions, mysticism, focus on Mary and a virgin birth, recitation of the rosary, etc., never spoke to my heart, but who am I to say whether God uses that vehicle to speak to the hearts of others?

My daughter went to Catholic school starting age 12 and I became friendly with one of the kindest, gentlest women I'd ever met - who happened to be an elderly nun. Sister Frances had a wicked sense of humor on all manner of topics, student included.

Every Friday she'd would wax poetic about George Clooney's appearance during "ER" the previous evening. She was born in Ireland and claimed Clooney's charm and looks were attributable to his Irish roots. She'd wink and suggest that if only she hadn't taken the vows he would have found her irresistible. Very Betty White kind of humor.

After several years she started to slip and was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Her attitude: If this is what God wants me to experience, I walk the path willingly.

I am the better for having known this amazing woman and I sure miss our chats.

Catholicism has ugliness in its history, but I can't think of a major religion that doesn't. For that matter, non-religious countries and humans have plenty to answer for on that score, as well.
 
StarSong said:
Birth control isn't infallible. All methods except hysterectomies have some failure rate - even "the pill" when used perfectly is 99% effective. When used by humans who occasionally miss a pill or don't take it at the same time every day, the effective rate drops to 93%. Vasectomies are 99.99% effective, but not 100% because sometimes the tubes rejoin.

I got pregnant with twins while using birth control. Many women I know had an unplanned pregnancy while using birth control.
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And that is 90% LESS need for abortions. The math actually works both ways...
 
Warrigal said:
It is a weak argument to say that people kill other people without acknowledging that some 'tools' enable them to kill many more people at once.

Bombs and automatic or semi automatic weapons with very large capacity cartridges give one man the capacity to kill tens of people at a time.

That much is an observable fact. What action to take, if any, is a decision.
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By that token, one could foul a water supply and kill whole cities. Or run a car in a small building and kill a hundred.
 
oldaunt said:
And that is 90% LESS need for abortions. The math actually works both ways...
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I was taking issue with your presumption that young people don't use birth control and therefore get abortions at a such an alarming rate. 90%?

Most couples do use some form of birth control, or our modern birth rate would be similar to what they were when our great grandparents were alive. A baby every two years and families of 8-10 children. Instead, the US birth rate continues to decline. And that's not just attributable to legal abortions.

Abortion rate in the US is roughly 11 abortions per 1000 women aged 15-44 versus 56 births per 1000 women 15-44. One can only imagine how many births there would have been without birth control.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm
 
oldaunt said:
By that token, one could foul a water supply and kill whole cities. Or run a car in a small building and kill a hundred.
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Yet, where I live, such things are so rare that they are almost unheard of. So are massacres by lone gunmen. The last one was in 1992 in Tasmania, after which a decision was made to unify firearms laws across the whole country. Our children and their teachers are safe in their school rooms and playgrounds. Worshipers are safe in their churches, mosques and synagogues without metal detectors at the front doors.

That is the crux of this argument. Doing nothing is a decision not to protect innocent lives. To be pro life means valuing other peoples lives as much as those of our own family and ourselves. To me, this is a religious imperative. 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' is the opposite of 'always have a loaded gun within arm's reach'. I learnt the first in Sunday School. I have never needed to learn the second.
 

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