The Roman Catholic Church. A respectful, civil, sharing of thoughts.

I am currently angry with the church as my grandson will be forced into it. Can't stand the thought of his first communion or confirmation or whatever it is. Big discussion with son yesterday on this topic. He told me to feel free to be honest with grandson, but I will wait until he talks about it. Like, I wouldn't tell him now there's no Santa Claus.

Since he was born, I was worried about the first time he mentions 'baby Jesus.' If/when he does I might just go ballistic.
 

A new soul has entered heaven and Saint Peter is doing the tour guide bit. Walking down a very long corridor Saint Peter whispers, "we must take our shoes off here." "Muslims?" Asks the new soul, "actually it's The Roman Catholics," Saint Peter replied. "I wasn't aware they had a shoe removal rule," the soul said, with some surprise. "They don't," Saint Peter answered, "we take our shoes off to be extra quiet. The Roman Catholics think that they are the only ones here!"

That rather silly joke sums up the teaching both at school and at church in my catholic upbringing. What I was never taught is how Rome, as in The Vatican, ruled over an empire that became known as: The Holy Roman Empire, that was the apolitical entity in Western, Central and Southern Europe that developed during the Early Middle Ages and continued until its dissolution in 1806 during the Napoleonic Wars.

From the accession of Otto I in 962 until the twelfth century, the Empire was the most powerful monarchy in Europe. Andrew Holt characterises it as "perhaps the most powerful European state of the Middle Ages," The functioning of government depended on the harmonic cooperation, dubbed! consensual rulership by Bernd Schneidmüller, between monarch and vassals. The empire reached the apex of territorial expansion and power under the House of Hohenstaufen in the mid-thirteenth century, but overextending led to partial collapse
 
My dad was Catholic and my mom was Jewish. They were intelligent people, so they never discussed religion. Not in front of us kids, anyway. Obviously at some point they discussed which way to raise their kids, and decided we'd go to church on Sunday and synagogue on Friday evening. When we got to be about 10 years old, we could go to one or the other, but we didn't have to go to both, and at age 13, we could stop going altogether.

When I was an adult I realized that could have gotten a lot more complicated, even bloody, so I have way more respect and admiration for my parents than I do religion.
 
Pepper said:
I am currently angry with the church as my grandson will be forced into it. Can't stand the thought of his first communion or confirmation or whatever it is. Big discussion with son yesterday on this topic. He told me to feel free to be honest with grandson, but I will wait until he talks about it. Like, I wouldn't tell him now there's no Santa Claus.

Since he was born, I was worried about the first time he mentions 'baby Jesus.' If/when he does I might just go ballistic.
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What are your main concerns, in regards to your grandson that is. Would encouraging your grandson in the concept of ‘free thinking’ alleviate your concerns? Not necessarily in religious maters, initial, but in regards to the general world around him?
 
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I hope this thread goes the way you want it to go, @LadyEmeraude (meaning respectful and civil) but I've noted that even in a roomful of supposed mature adults over 55 or 60 mostly, there are always a few scrappers chiming in on certain topics. No honest discussion, just picking, picking, scrapping, scrapping. My daughter was like that. At age 11. SMH
 
CallMeKate said:
I hope this thread goes the way you want it to go, @LadyEmeraude (meaning respectful and civil) but I've noted that even in a roomful of supposed mature adults over 55 or 60 mostly, there are always a few scrappers chiming in on certain topics. No honest discussion, just picking, picking, scrapping, scrapping. My daughter was like that. At age 11. SMH
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I have a lot to say about the RC church, but I refuse to fall into her trap of inciting picking and scrapping. I'll leave that to others, if the see fit. :)
 
Catballou said:
I have a lot to say about the RC church, but I refuse to fall into her trap of inciting picking and scrapping. I'll leave that to others, if the see fit. :)
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Well I'm over 50.... and over 60. I can't see myself falling into any trap because I watch where I'm stepping and hopefully know when to bow out. And for the record, I see no trap, and no inciting here... just people ages 55 to 90 having an adult conversation without needing to sit in the corner for a time-out.
 
Magna-Carta said:
What are your main concerns, in regards to your grandson that is. Would encouraging your grandson in the concept of ‘free thinking’ alleviate your concerns? Not necessarily in religious maters, initial, but in regards to the general world around him?
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Yes, and my son will too, but he promised his wife he would not interfere in her plans. They almost didn't get married because of this...
 
CallMeKate said:
Well I'm over 50.... and over 60. I can't see myself falling into any trap because I watch where I'm stepping and hopefully know when to bow out. And for the record, I see no trap, and no inciting here... just people ages 55 to 90 having an adult conversation without needing to sit in the corner for a time-out.
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I see it differently. If you've read my previous exchanges with this OP on the thread about spirituality/religion, you'd see why I think she's trying to bait me or prove that people can debate religion civilly and respectfully. We will see what transpires here.
 
Wigglestein said:
My husband was raised Catholic and attended Catholic schools until high school. He is now what I refer to as a "Recovering Catholic".
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For a moment thare I had this image of him being in some kind of self help group. Perhaps something along the lines of something called Catholic's Anonymous.

But that image has gone now. I’m alright, I’m back with it, I think? Just let me know if I’m starting to lose it, so to speak.
 
Pepper said:
Yes, and my son will too, but he promised his wife he would not interfere in her plans. They almost didn't get married because of this...
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Ok, I think I'm starting to see the picture. Obviously there are ways of guiding someone without interfering with a specific issue. Setting up something that might run in parallel, but not quite, and guiding that instead
 
There was a time when this "church" tried to bind the people to it's instruction. It did this through FEAR of God, not through LOVE of God.
The "church" failed to provide a way to peace and inner harmony and a direct way to God realization; when it was reduced to dogma and ritual only, people lost faith.
To try to control the minds of the people without providing a means to greater happiness is not a good way to help humanity.
This "church" for centuries has been devoid of spirit. Followers cannot find fulfillment in it's doctrines.
People of genuine goodness who had hope and faith in something other than themselves were taught this way was the way to find God,
but the inner spirit of this religion doesn't seem to exist. It only regulates what is right or wrong by their standards and creates fear of hell and punishment, and that God is an entity to fear.

My opinion only.
 
I was raised with a Protestant bent - meaning we moved around a lot, so I went to whatever Protestant church was nearest, LOL - and married a Roman Catholic. And yes, there is a difference between Catholic and ROMAN Catholic, although I never paid any attention to the specifics.

Both Spouse and I are lapsed churchgoers, as our parents' generation were heavily into the whole hellfire and damnation scenario. It's interesting that as antagonistic as Protestants and Catholics have been throughout history, they both have the same "if you don't do 'x' you're going to burn in hell" philosophy - the ultimate "it's us against them" belief, I guess.

As we're both amateur historians, we have a very clear view on religion and its role in wars and persecution/genocide. As Asians we're also very familiar with the idea of spirituality vs organized religion.

At this stage in our lives we prefer to be spiritual, rather than religious. YMMV, which is fine with us as long as you show the courtesy of not believing your beliefs makes you better than anyone/everyone else.
 
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