The stock market is taking a dive today!

First Republic’s shares crash more than 46% after downgraded credit rating
The US bank may need to raise more funds despite a $30bn rescue last week

As the growing banking crisis spread into a new week, the credit rating of the regional bank was downgraded deeper into junk status by S&P Global. The agency said that the bank, which caters to wealthy clients, probably faced “high liquidity stress with substantial outflows”.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...p-more-than-17-after-downgraded-credit-rating

Since they cater to wealthy clients, it wouldn't surprise me if tax dollars are used to bail them out.
 
I bought a $50k annuity in 2001 at the recommendation of my financial advisor. I bought it for my mother to provide consistent income in case she needed it. It was never cashed in because it turned out she had all the financial resources she needed. When she passed away in 2021, with the death benefit it was worth $190k. I thought I was going to fall over when I owed $26k in taxes last year, but it was still worth it. Not a bad return over a 20-year period. I'm not recommending annuities because they are complex, but it worked for me.
 
WhatInThe said:
I got some good deals in after the apocolypse was announced and markets crashed. Looking for more now.
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Hope you got some good deals. Looks like the mini-bank-panic is completely over now, or else something else has cheered up the market. I wish I had more money so I could play in the market. Last year I'd sold my house so I had some money to play with and it was so much fun. Now I guess the rest of my life will be deciding what bits to sell each year. Doesn't sound like fun.
 
seadoug said:
I bought a $50k annuity in 2001 at the recommendation of my financial advisor. I bought it for my mother to provide consistent income in case she needed it. It was never cashed in because it turned out she had all the financial resources she needed. When she passed away in 2021, with the death benefit it was worth $190k. I thought I was going to fall over when I owed $26k in taxes last year, but it was still worth it. Not a bad return over a 20-year period. I'm not recommending annuities because they are complex, but it worked for me.
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ever calculate what that same money in a simple s&p fund would have been worth over 20 years? 240k and that includes the lost decade for stocks
 
The last time I checked the overall market as shown by the S&P500 is up from it's low in October. It hasn't made it all the way back, and there could even be new lows. But as off today it's up. Over the past three years it's still up compared to three years ago.
 
mathjak107 said:
ever calculate what that same money in a simple s&p fund would have been worth over 20 years? 240k and that includes the lost decade for stocks
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I was very naive 20 years ago and didn't know then what I know now so I'm quite satisfied. Again, I made the decision so my mother would have a guaranteed income. Most of my other investments are in equities and funds.

No regrets. We make the decisions we make with the knowledge we have at the time. ;)
 
if you buy individual stocks then. it isn’t markets , it’s your picks in stocks

10k in a total market fund in 2020 is worth 13,121 now ,up 8.72% cagr

10k in an s&p fund is worth 13401 up 9.42% cagr


it’s you
 
if i even go back to 2019 a total market fund had 10k grow to 17,145 now , that is 13.53% cagr

want to do 2021 , 3.56% 10,841

so whether we go back to 2019 ,2020 or 2021 it must be your picking that isnt uptosnuff
 
Uptosnuff said:
What universe are you from? The stock market has gone way down from its peak a couple of years ago. I have lost a quarter of my investments over the last 3 years as have many others. I don't see it doing much better for the next year.
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Just looking at the DOW, 3 years ago, it was 23,719. Today it's 33,485. That's a 41% increase.

Perhaps you should take a look at your investment strategies if you've lost money.
 
Uptosnuff said:
I have lost a quarter of my investments over the last 3 years as have many others.
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Do you have your money in retirement-target-year funds? Mine have performed just awfully in this market because the management of the funds put the entire bond allocation into bond "funds" instead of bonds, and half of the equities were in international funds. So the investment has been hit from multiple sides.

It is so ironic that the only part of my money that is 'managed' has performed a lot worse than the part I control. I point that fact out every time Fidelity calls me and suggests that they could manage my little portfolio for me.
 
i would never use target date funds , they are a poor idea for many reasons

especially because retirees all have different needs , pucker factor and goals .there is noooooo such thing as one size fits all
 
why are target date funds such a poor choice ?


there are no standard allocations for what is right . Each company does their own glide path .

target date funds load you up on investments based on time instead of what is happening around you and what part of the cycle an asset is in with no regard for your own risk tolerance.

not only do they not take risk tolerance in to the equation there is no standard format for what a fund should hold. it varys from fund family to fund family.

keep in mind there is noooooooooo standard as to how risky a target date should be even if you are at retirement .

the same 2010 target date fund from wells fargo in 2008-2009 lost 11.5% while the t.rowe price 2010 target fund lost 26.5%. that is a target fund that had 2 years to go before retirement.

in fact the t.rowe target date fund didn't fall to below 45% equities until 5 years after the target date. to make things worse after the downfall instead of buying more equities over the next 5 years as good investing tactics would dictate target funds actually shed their holdings further as they reduced down by design the equity side and sold while they really should be buying.


they also do not work well dollar cost averaging in . since markets are up 2/3's of the time and down only 1/3 that fact plus the fact as time goes on they are buying less and less equities could leave you under goal as you will be much more conservative then you may have wanted to be by dollar cost averaging.
 
Uptosnuff said:
What universe are you from? The stock market has gone way down from its peak a couple of years ago. I have lost a quarter of my investments over the last 3 years as have many others. I don't see it doing much better for the next year.
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The universe of reality.

Three years ago on 4/7/20 the S&P 500 was very close to 2800. Today 4/7/23 it closed at over 4100. That's an increase of about 40%. The high during that time was about 4800. So while the S&P is down from it's high point, it is still well ahead of where it was three years ago. That's what I was comparing.

I am sorry for anybody who lost money in common stocks over this three year period. All one had to do was buy the index and ride the ups and downs. What where you invested in that did so poorly?
 
and again , the s&p numbers don’t include the dividends in them so the gains are actually higher

so this is clearly a case of either poor investor behavior or trying to pick individual stocks
 

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