The Upper, Middle, and Lower Class of homeless people

Jeni said:
there is no solution until we do not spin the reality.......

1. some are simply unable to make insane rents ......but MANY more are substance abusing folks. easier to garner support if it was only high rents throwing people out

2. people with substance abuse treatment only works when they decide to get clean.......

3. mental health issues as well you can not fix those who refuse treatment.

4. we have many many issues with our own citizens and that should take priority over those who entered illegally into this country.

5. 80% of those so called seeking asylum are not granted and watch any media who interviews they all say they are coming for a JOB ( it is not legal to work here if company's follow the law) Many farm workers are here on a visa so able to work as long as visa is valid.
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No argument. However, most homeless are home grown.

"There’s little evidence to suggest undocumented immigrants constitute a large share of California’s homeless population. But those that are unhoused are particularly difficult to help. Crucial safety net resources such as Social Security, Section 8 housing vouchers and food stamps are unavailable to the undocumented, who often resist engagement with homeless services providers because of deportation fears. Language and cultural barriers also complicate re-housing efforts."

https://calmatters.org/explainers/californias-homelessness-crisis-explained/
 

StarSong said:
Exactly so. That's a big reason why cities have such dire homeless issues. Small towns just "move them along."

Let somewhere else take care of homeless and potentially homeless, including those homegrown in small towns. Yes, I'm talking about your drug users, ostracized LGBTQ+, mentally unstable, HS dropouts, unskilled, the unemployed or unemployable, veterans with severe PTSD, foster care children who've aged out of the system with no safety nets, people with criminal records, etc.

Precisely what do people think we should do with these human beings? Drown them in the Pacific, perhaps? How about letting them starve to death? What about throwing them in jail, making them even more unlikely to get financial traction with the added bonus of a criminal record?

We're all ears waiting to hear the solutions. Perhaps the answer should be to "move them along" to small towns...
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You wrote what I was thinking Star! And you sure covered the range of who the homeless might be (but let's not forget the skilled workers, who have found themselves out of work too). Of course we wouldn't want people to be disposed of using the methods you mentioned, but one has to wonder just as you wrote "Precisely what do people think we should do with these human beings?" More specifically, what do the officials think should happen to them?!
 
Nevada and California had a big spat a year ago because one state was busing people being released from the mental health hospital to the other state. I can’t remember which state was the villain in this situation. It was illegal of course.
 

'round 1980 was about the last time I visited Los Angeles - I saw who was probably a homeless youngish girl come into the chinese restaurant stand at the counter ; quietly twist the cooker jar lid off ; dug in for a few cookies put the lid back and walked silently out ; later I looked out of the hotel window at night and people on the street spotted the light in the window and were waving and welcoming me to come down and meet them I think? - declined. and that was over 40's ago - I hope things have picked up now?
 
OneEyedDiva said:
You wrote what I was thinking Star! And you sure covered the range of who the homeless might be (but let's not forget the skilled workers, who have found themselves out of work too). Of course we wouldn't want people to be disposed of using the methods you mentioned, but one has to wonder just as you wrote "Precisely what do people think we should do with these human beings?" More specifically, what do the officials think should happen to them?!
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You're right. Some homeless are people who've hit a bump in the road with unemployment or underemployment. They can't make rent and wind up living in their cars. Social services tries to find them ASAP and get them temporarily housed. Statistically speaking, the longer someone is unhoused, the harder it is for them to regain traction.

Many homeless resist going to shelters or emergency housing because of sobriety and other rules. With California's mild climate, outdoor survival isn't too difficult most of the year.
 
Teacher Terry said:
Nevada and California had a big spat a year ago because one state was busing people being released from the mental health hospital to the other state. I can’t remember which state was the villain in this situation. It was illegal of course.
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It was Nevada busing mentally ill out of state. Apparently they've been doing this for many years.
There have been lawsuits with the hospital on the losing end.
https://www.kpcc.org/show/take-two/...l-busing-out-their-mentally-ill-to-california
https://apnews.com/article/41169f5d54eb44b7b8728e723549468b
 
StarSong said:
Exactly so. That's a big reason why cities have such dire homeless issues. Small towns just "move them along."

Let somewhere else take care of homeless and potentially homeless, including those homegrown in small towns. Yes, I'm talking about your drug users, ostracized LGBTQ+, mentally unstable, HS dropouts, unskilled, the unemployed or unemployable, veterans with severe PTSD, foster care children who've aged out of the system with no safety nets, people with criminal records, etc.

Precisely what do people think we should do with these human beings? Drown them in the Pacific, perhaps? How about letting them starve to death? What about throwing them in jail, making them even more unlikely to get financial traction with the added bonus of a criminal record?

We're all ears waiting to hear the solutions. Perhaps the answer should be to "move them along" to small towns...
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"drug users, ostracized LGBTQ+, mentally unstable, HS dropouts, unskilled, the unemployed or unemployable, veterans with severe PTSD, foster care children".......Yes, we move them along.
Not everyone believes all people are redeemable. MS13, career criminals sent by Mexico and other South American countries are not redeemable and should 'move them along' until they get to a self-proclaimed sanctuary cities where they claim they are prepared to welcome illegals.
There are many opportunities for people that want to get help, many don't want to put in the effort to better themselves.
We could go round and round on LGBTQ++++, but due to communist guidelines, we can't discuss.
 
Homelessness is occurring at an increasing rate, especially in cities. Approximately 17 people out of 10,000 become homeless everyday in the US. It is possible to become homeless with those living paycheck to paycheck if something happens that requires money you don't have. Then the rent is due, or a house payment. This is happening to graduates of college, and to children who have become victims of not having shelter.
I remember the our Constitution promising the United States this :

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of ...

 It is known by every human being that we have basic human needs :

First, along the bottom of the pyramid, we have our physiological needs (food, water and sleep), followed by safety (shelter and security). Third is love and belonging (family and friends) followed by esteem (recognition and respect), and ending with self-actualization. (Maslow)

 To be well adjusted in our society the basic/primary needs are the most important.

What has happened along the way that these basic human needs are NOT addressed in our society?
 
Sippican said:
We could go round and round on LGBTQ++++, but due to communist guidelines, we can't discuss.
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In fact, this was decided quite democratically. The owner/moderator of this forum put it to a vote by members. We the people voted to keep politics off this site.

Interesting that your go-to belief is that it's communism at work.
 
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Don't post a lot on homelessness, mostly because I don't see any good answer.

Like most folks I would like all people to have a comfortable existence. However I just don't see what policies or actions can make that happen. On the face of it providing homeless with housing seems to make sense, problem is I fear free housing would just draw in more folks. If you are poor and barely able to afford housing why not move into that free or subsidized place...

If temporary housing worked and helped people to get back on their feet I'd be all in favor of it. And I do think we should do some of that. However I don't think it would fully solve the problem. I believe many of the homeless are that way for reasons that are hard to impossible to change.
StarSong said:
Interesting that your go-to belief is that it's communism at work.
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Communists are convenient scapegoats for people of our generation. Communists are always hiding my socks, tools, phone etc...
 
StarSong said:
In fact, this was decided quite democratically. The owner/moderator of this forum put it to a vote by members. We the people voted to politics off this site.

Interesting that your go-to belief is that it's communism at work.
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Not so much a belief, but an observation balanced out with history of societal changes. Saul Alinsky captured this eloquently in his writings as well as politicians that follow Saul's approach.
 
Lethe200 said:
We are the wealthiest country in the world, and have the most tattered safety net of any First World nation. It's a disgrace.
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IMO the problem isn't money. The problems are drugs, mental illness, criminal recklessness and criminal records, combined with politicians and their overtolerance of the many street people who exit the safety net, and thus you have the disaster some states, and particular cities are experiencing. We have so many international contributors here who rarely hear the other side of things, so I'd be cautious painting the entire U.S. for the massive policy failures in certain areas of our country. But hey, it's just one man's opinion; Peace!)
 
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I am a bit biased ..........as i knew a few homeless and many on the cusp of homeless............ that in fact if they put their own ingenuity to things they might be in a better place......
i was in industry........ that would be often first job or getting back on your feet type job.... and many were paycheck to paycheck .......
but i saw enough to know who would be fine ............and who would be living paycheck to paycheck forever
simply zero money skills and the false belief they should have every new gadgets etc.....
One person i know would ask for anyone to help her keep lights on for her kids....... but had her nails done professionally...... co -worker i heard on phone bagging places to give her extension on bills but the next day brought a bunch of food in for a potluck ........ guess that is where her money went.

The "housing first" model is still being pushed but many places tried it did not fix it.......
many need a way/ job / plan ........ to support long term.. taxes/ upkeep utilities on and on. job training even fizzled when people simply did not want to show up everyday "it was BORING to work so much " how many quit cause they could not get last minute time off for a party or to go somewhere with friends...


i feel personal finance course an elective in many colleges but not even discussed in high school.......the truth is "people do not plan to fail...... but too many fail to plan "



Even dream house winners:
"As it turns out, it’s not unusual for winners of contests like this to be forced to sell the properties because they can’t afford the income taxes, property taxes or even the upkeep. Even winners of home make-overs must often sell.

According to HGTV, only one of the first 10 Dream House winners has been able to hang on to their winnings. Just six of the first 21 winners actually lived in their new digs for more than a year."
 
Alligatorob said:
Don't post a lot on homelessness, mostly because I don't see any good answer.

Like most folks I would like all people to have a comfortable existence. However I just don't see what policies or actions can make that happen. On the face of it providing homeless with housing seems to make sense, problem is I fear free housing would just draw in more folks. If you are poor and barely able to afford housing why not move into that free or subsidized place...

If temporary housing worked and helped people to get back on their feet I'd be all in favor of it. And I do think we should do some of that. However I don't think it would fully solve the problem. I believe many of the homeless are that way for reasons that are hard to impossible to change.
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I forget the name of the senator or governor who came up with what I think was a brilliant idea; a 4-tiered huge campus-style facility that included a hospital and treatment center, a fully staffed mental health clinic, a job skills training center and employment agency, and hundreds of small apartments.

I don't remember what state the idea person is in, either, or if s/he's still in office. This type of facility would cost trillions to build and staff, but imo it would be worth it. The plan was that all services would be free. Social workers would help the "residents" get whatever financial benefits they're eligible for; social security, unemployment, welfare, whatever; but no one is turned away for not being eligible. Residents enter the first tier: evaluate their needs and help them set realistic goals and objectives, enter the next tier based on those needs, start treatment and/or training, and so on.

At the end, (ideally) they come out clean, mentally reasonably sound, trained for a job and some job interviews lined up, and housed until they can afford their own place. It could take years for some residents but the idea included them working at the campus meanwhile, in housekeeping, grounds-keeping, janitorial services, meal prep, etc.

I like this idea. I don't know what happened to it.
 
Murrmurr said:
I forget the name of the senator or governor who came up with what I think was a brilliant idea; a 4-tiered huge campus-style facility that included a hospital and treatment center, a fully staffed mental health clinic, a job skills training center and employment agency, and hundreds of small apartments.

I don't remember what state the idea person is in, either, or if s/he's still in office. This type of facility would cost trillions to build and staff, but imo it would be worth it. The plan was that all services would be free. Social workers would help the "residents" get whatever financial benefits they're eligible for; social security, unemployment, welfare, whatever; but no one is turned away for not being eligible. Residents enter the first tier: evaluate their needs and help them set realistic goals and objectives, enter the next tier based on those needs, start treatment and/or training, and so on.

At the end, (ideally) they come out clean, mentally reasonably sound, trained for a job and some job interviews lined up, and housed until they can afford their own place. It could take years for some residents but the idea included them working at the campus meanwhile, in housekeeping, grounds-keeping, janitorial services, meal prep, etc.

I like this idea. I don't know what happened to it.
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Some large, vacant shopping malls could be converted into this kind of homeless services center.
 
Murrmurr said:
I forget the name of the senator or governor who came up with what I think was a brilliant idea; a 4-tiered huge campus-style facility that included a hospital and treatment center, a fully staffed mental health clinic, a job skills training center and employment agency, and hundreds of small apartments.

I don't remember what state the idea person is in, either, or if s/he's still in office. This type of facility would cost trillions to build and staff, but imo it would be worth it. The plan was that all services would be free. Social workers would help the "residents" get whatever financial benefits they're eligible for; social security, unemployment, welfare, whatever; but no one is turned away for not being eligible. Residents enter the first tier: evaluate their needs and help them set realistic goals and objectives, enter the next tier based on those needs, start treatment and/or training, and so on.

At the end, (ideally) they come out clean, mentally reasonably sound, trained for a job and some job interviews lined up, and housed until they can afford their own place. It could take years for some residents but the idea included them working at the campus meanwhile, in housekeeping, grounds-keeping, janitorial services, meal prep, etc.

I like this idea. I don't know what happened to it.
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Reality.
 
Sippican said:
"drug users, ostracized LGBTQ+, mentally unstable, HS dropouts, unskilled, the unemployed or unemployable, veterans with severe PTSD, foster care children".......Yes, we move them along.
Not everyone believes all people are redeemable. MS13, career criminals sent by Mexico and other South American countries are not redeemable and should 'move them along' until they get to a self-proclaimed sanctuary cities where they claim they are prepared to welcome illegals.
There are many opportunities for people that want to get help, many don't want to put in the effort to better themselves.
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I certainly hope so. I'm not spending several thousand dollars on my vacation to be panhandled or attacked by the homeless. That's why I don't vacation in NYC, Chicago or San Francisco all sanctuary cities who are now complaining about immigrants. Is there anyone who wants to vacation among the homeless?

StarSong said:
In fact, this was decided quite democratically. The owner/moderator of this forum put it to a vote by members. We the people voted to keep politics off this site.
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Yet there are many hot button political issues posted on the forum regularly. What could be more political than gun control and pride month? Maybe homelessness. I'm not complaining, just pointing out what I see. The owner pays the bills and the owner sets the rules. I post at his pleasure and understand that.

Skyking said:
IMO the problem isn't money. The problems are drugs, mental illness, criminal recklessness and criminal records, combined with politicians and their overtolerance of the many street people who exit the safety net, and thus you have the disaster some states, and particular cities are experiencing. We have so many international contributors here who rarely hear the other side of things, so I'd be cautious painting the entire U.S. for the massive policy failures in certain areas of our country. But hey, it's just one man's opinion; Peace!)
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Billions in tax payer money has been spent and billions more all over again. Where did the money go? Can anyone point to any large city where the homeless problem has been solved or even lessened? Could it possibly be that the money is part of what's keeping the homeless on the streets?

The mayor of one large city wants residents to take immigrants into their homes. Why not the homeless? I didn't like this idea at first but it's growing on me. Hands on experience would do two things. It might actually work for some of the more recently homeless which would be a great accomplishment and it would help those who try this idea to understand the problem better.

I've volunteered at the local homeless shelter and worked for months with a group to encourage and help just one man. Seeing it close up can be eye opening. I sincerely recommend it for anyone who hasn't tried it. It won't make you feel better about the situation but you will be glad you spent your time this way.
 
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