The wedding cake issue again

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billt said:
We are a severely divided nation. On drugs, gays, illegal immigration, and guns. This will only get worse. And it will, and in fact is, getting more dangerous because the division is so strong the people who oppose the written laws as they are in place today, are simply ignoring them and doing as they please. That is called anarchy. And it will end in bloodshed. History has proven this time and time again. This time will be no different.
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This is an interesting concept. In the US, the vast majority are law-abiding. That was tested when Eisenhower and Kennedy sent armed federal troops to Southern states for FORCE racial integration at the point of bayonets. But in the face of another civil war, armed Southerners [backed by their local and state leaders] stood down. It was the closest the USA had ever come to another civil war. What might spark such a resistance today? What kind of resistance might it be? If some in the law-abiding majority decide that a law has become too draconian, would they decide to ignore that specific law or would their resistance expand to other draconian laws that have been forced to tolerate over the decades? Or, would all laws be ignored like the guerrilla fighter "Bushwackers" did during the civil war?

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billt said:
We are a severely divided nation. On drugs, gays, illegal immigration, and guns. This will only get worse. And it will, and in fact is, getting more dangerous because the division is so strong the people who oppose the written laws as they are in place today, are simply ignoring them and doing as they please. That is called anarchy. And it will end in bloodshed. History has proven this time and time again. This time will be no different.
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Civil war, huh? Seems to me I've heard that here lately. Gee, I wonder who that could have been?
 

billt said:
Fixed it for you. The Supreme Court ruling supersedes state court rulings. Just as Federal law trumps state law. All the time...... Every time. After the Supreme Court ruled in favor of this baker, it no longer matters what Colorado says or does. He, you, or anyone else cannot be prosecuted for refusing to bake a cake for a gay. You may not like that, or agree with it. But it changes nothing in regards to it's legality.
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I beg to differ. SCOTUS was quite clear that it was NOT ruling on the merits of the question of whether or not this particular baker's decision was constitutional. And it matters a lot what Colorado says or does, because their law clearly says their citizens cannot discriminate against people for their sexual orientation. The above cited Colorado statute was actually clarified in 2016 (after the incident in the cake baker's case) to expressly forbid discrimination against gay people. It remains the law in Colorado unless and until it is ruled unconstitutional.

The present SCOTUS case only deals with that one baker in those particular circumstances, wherein the civil rights commission did not act appropriately. The present case has NO effect on future cases unless the Colorado Civil Rights Commission behaves similarly.

Colorado, BTW, does have the right to add sexual orientation as a protected class in its state, as it did, as long as they maintain the basic federal law, which does not mention gays at all, but it does not in any way exclude them from being protected.
 
Historical fact. All 'great' nations wax and wane.
To this far-off outsider-looking-in, it seems fairly clear that the Grand Ole USA is very much on the wane.
Given the passions aroused by said drugs, gays, illegal immigration, and guns"
along with many other things,
I suspect that the U.S. will fragment into a whole bunch of smaller nation-states.
Very probably bickering with each other.

 
Toorbulite said:
Historical fact. All 'great' nations wax and wane.
To this far-off outsider-looking-in, it seems fairly clear that the Grand Ole USA is very much on the wane.
Given the passions aroused by said drugs, gays, illegal immigration, and guns - along with many other things, I suspect that the U.S. will fragment into a whole bunch of smaller nation-states.
Very probably bickering with each other.
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Sounds more like a wish to me. We shall see this November.
 
billt said:
An even better example you have of all of this Federal vs. State law misinterpretation, are all of these state, "Medical Marijuana Laws". That set up these supposed, "licensed stores" to sell it on some bogus "prescription". First off, it is illegal for any doctor to even write a prescription for a drug that is illegal at the Federal level. The "doctors" doing this are nothing but quacks playing a dangerous game.

The legal fact is every one of these, "Medical Marijuana" laws is not worth the paper it's printed on. Why? Because Marijuana is ILLEGAL on the Federal level. And has been for decades. Just because the Federal government isn't acting on this doesn't mean they have the legal right to do it. They don't. Some states are selling it outright to anyone who walks in the door. They're making an even bigger mistake.

President Trump could order the DEA and FBI into California, Oregon, Washington, and every other state in the union that have these illegal laws in place today. And he could close down every "Medical Marijuana" shop, and arrest every owner on Federal drug charges. He has the legal right to do it as we speak. All that is stopping him, along with the rest of the Presidents before him, is the politics involved. A state has the legal right to enhance Federal law, and in the process make it stronger and more effective. But they cannot legally ignore it and do the opposite. It is the reason we have the courts in this country set up the way we do. The Supreme Court has the final say.

It is much the same with states like California ignoring Federal immigration laws, and are doing whatever they please with all of this, "Sanctuary City" nonsense. They are all doing so ILLEGALLY. A lot of pro immigration people are being lured into a false sense of security because of this. They think because they are presently getting away with it, that makes it legal. It does not.

We are a severely divided nation. On drugs, gays, illegal immigration, and guns. This will only get worse. And it will, and in fact is, getting more dangerous because the division is so strong the people who oppose the written laws as they are in place today, are simply ignoring them and doing as they please. That is called anarchy. And it will end in bloodshed. History has proven this time and time again. This time will be no different.

The gay who wanted this cake could have simply walked out and found another bakery who would have been glad to make it for him. But instead he chose to make a big legal stink out of it and basically lost. He wanted to FORCE this baker to make it for him. There in lies the problem that is beginning to fester in this country. It is no longer good enough to be able to be who you want to be. But now these same people want to FORCE others to comply with what they want, along with how they feel. And many times remove freedoms in the process.

For example, they don't like guns. But they themselves choosing not to own them isn't good enough. So they want to regulate or remove your right to own them, because they think they know better as to what's good for you. That is always the liberal mindset when it comes to government. We've had gays forever. But now they want to FORCE their acceptance on the masses. And be able to have you arrested if you don't comply with their wants and belief's.

Illegal invaders ignore our immigration laws, and run, jump, or swim over here. All because they think they have some God given right to do so. They are forcing themselves into this country against our immigration laws. That's not, "immigration". It's an INVASION. Anyone who thinks this will be resolved peacefully is kidding themselves. Everything else is just a bunch of smoke filled coffee house crap.
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There is a huge difference between the marijuana issue and the cake baker issue. In the case of marijuana, there is a federal law which declares marijuana illegal. state laws which attempt to make marijuana illegal countermand federal law, which is unconstitutional. In the discrimination against gay people issue, Colorado does not countermand federal law, but simply adds another protected class, which it has the right to do.
 
KingsX said:
This is an interesting concept. In the US, the vast majority are law-abiding. That was tested when Eisenhower and Kennedy sent armed federal troops to Southern states for FORCE racial integration at the point of bayonets. But in the face of another civil war, armed Southerners [backed by their local and state leaders] stood down. It was the closest the USA had ever come to another civil war. What might spark such a resistance today? What kind of resistance might it be? If some in the law-abiding majority decide that a law has become too draconian, would they decide to ignore that specific law or would their resistance expand to other draconian laws that have been forced to tolerate over the decades? Or, would all laws be ignored like the guerrilla fighter "Bushwackers" did during the civil war?
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I would agree with you....Back in the days of Kennedy and Eisenhower. But we are a long way from that point in time. And even farther away from that kind of civility and personal respect. Back then we respected, and more importantly accepted the results of our Presidential election process. Regardless of which candidate won. Today there is so much hate from liberals they cannot contain themselves. They haven't stopped spewing their hatred for Trump ever since he announced his candidacy. Look at that foul mouthed POS De Niro. His total hatred for Trump is so bad, he couldn't even control himself from using the F word on a national television broadcast last night. These people have gone, and have remained off the rails for almost 2 years now.

They thought Trump was a joke and had no chance. So why not pick on him? They thought Clinton was going to tap dance right into the oval office. Every talking head in the news media made a complete idiot out of themselves, by constantly shooting their mouths off how he had no chance to win. Megan Kelly destroyed her career over it. You never had a national news media act like that 40 years ago. Credibility in journalism in this country has managed to self destruct faster than a Muslim in a suicide vest. Nickelodeon now has higher ratings than CNN.

Now that Trump has not only won, but his approval ratings, along with his accomplishments keep rising, they can't stand it. And they're all getting even worse because of it. Every night these late night clowns pick on Trump. His kids. His wife. Non stop. Sure, Johnny Carson made jokes about the Presidents. All of them. Republican or Democrat. But he knew when to quit. He knew when it wasn't funny any longer. And he NEVER attacked the First Family. And above all his jokes were respectful. This current batch of late night nit wits are nothing but a bunch of hate brandishing demagogues.

This didn't happen before. Not even during the Nixon Watergate years. Look at ANTIFA. They're nothing but a bunch of anti American, violent thugs. This whole "Occupy Wall Street" movement is comprised of nothing but spoiled kids living in their mothers basement. Who think they're entitled to everything. Free education. Housing, A job. Health care. Name it. No question about it, we're closer to civil war now, than at any time I can remember in my 65 years of living. If someone would have told me this country would be in this kind of shape when I retired, back when I graduated high school in 1970, I would have laughed at you. Yet here we are. And it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Proof of that is it's already getting better.... And they're all getting worse. Just wait until they get pasted yet again in November.
 
Butterfly said:
There is a huge difference between the marijuana issue and the cake baker issue. In the case of marijuana, there is a federal law which declares marijuana illegal. state laws which attempt to make marijuana illegal countermand federal law, which is unconstitutional. In the discrimination against gay people issue, Colorado does not countermand federal law, but simply adds another protected class, which it has the right to do.
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It won't matter because after this Supreme Court decision, they will never "convict" another baker who does the same thing.
 
billt said:
It won't matter because after this Supreme Court decision, they will never "convict" another baker who does the same thing.
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There are other similar court cases in the queue, so I believe your assessment is a bit premature. And maybe you have a blind spot somewhere because you're not reading or not wanting to read what you don't want to.
 
billt said:
I think that is a very real possibility. California already wants to split apart. People who hate each other do not want to coexist together.
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Okay, I've "heard" that. Any references beyond hearing that? And who exactly wants to do that? And I've also heard it's because California is too large for one central state government, etc, etc. So, it would be really clarifying to get more info, if you have it.
 
billt said:
I think that is a very real possibility. California already wants to split apart. People who hate each other do not want to coexist together.
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First the dissolution of the USSR, next the USA ?? The EU is also in turmoil with several EU states in political rebellion.

Makes the famous photo op of US/USSR troops shaking hands over defeated Germany's Elbe river quite ironic.

https://todayinhistoryblog.wordpress.com/tag/elbe-day/

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Olivia said:
Okay, I've "heard" that. Any references beyond hearing that? And who exactly wants to do that? And I've also heard it's because California is too large for one central state government, etc, etc. So, it would be really clarifying to get more info, if you have it.
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California has existed as a single state since 1850. It can't much longer. Southern and Western Illinois have been wanting to divorce themselves from the Chicago socialist liberals for decades. They're sick and tired of having money diverted from their cities and towns into that liberal Democratic money pit that only gets worse and more expensive, as it constantly hemorrhages money. There is talk of Michigan wanting to do the same with the Detroit Metro area. People are getting sick and tired of funding these Democratic stink hole cities that do nothing but consume money, and produce nothing in return but crime and waste.

It's only going to be a matter of time before the money supply runs out. Look at L.A. Jobs are drying up. The cost of living is skyrocketing. Illegals are pouring into the state. Crime is off the chart. People are not going to continue to finance this much longer. When I lived in the Chicago area, people used to always say, "Yeah, the weather is lousy. The homes are expensive. The property taxes are high.... But you can ALWAYS find a good paying job!".... Well not any longer.

There already is a mass exodus out of California. As people leave all in search of better, more affordable living in red states like Arizona and Texas. It won't be long before these liberal strongholds start collapsing on themselves financially. And the Federal government isn't going to be able to bail them all out. These used to be the places to be. Now they're the places to be FROM.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/800...lee-new-york-california-because-of-taxes.html

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/20...n-droves-including-some-high-desert-residents
 
Shaking in my boots. 800,000 people leaving California and New York out of California's population of 39.78 million is a scary prospect. What will they do, what will they do. The sky is falling!


 
"In years to come, millions of people, thousands of businesses and tens of billions of dollars of net income will flee high-tax blue states for low-tax red states," they said."
 
billt said:
"In years to come, millions of people, thousands of businesses and tens of billions of dollars of net income will flee high-tax blue states for low-tax red states," they said."
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Please do get back to us when that happens.
 

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