Theory of Quantum Immortality

I; I; I; I - can we get past the I and move into the "WE: section a bit more?
 

bobcat said:
Well, I do assume that human consciousness is discreet from other varieties. As far as we know, humans are the only species that is not only conscious, but self-conscious (Meaning that we are aware of the fact we are conscious). To my knowledge, and I belief that of the scientific community, no other species possesses that.
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"As far as we know" proves nothing. I don't think that you invoking the "scientific community" is a correct statement. There is increasing evidence that other animal species like dolphins and chimps have a great deal of intelligence and could very well be self-aware. African elephants use unique names for each other. We just happened got there first, that is, technology.
 
I agree Spg- I am always deeply moved by elephant 'cemetery' scenes - as one example - I am sure one could write a book on such animal events - remember the true story of the japanese dog who waited for his master for years at the railway station?
 

This immortal crap is just Sci-Fi on steroids.

There is increasing evidence that other animal species like dolphins and chimps have a great deal of intelligence and could very well be self-aware. African elephants use unique names for each other. We just happened got there first, that is, technology.

Many animals easily learn human handsignals. Thus think and are self aware. Just because they can't actually speak a human language
doesn't mean they are dumb at all.
 
smiley said:
I agree Spg- I am always deeply moved by elephant 'cemetery' scenes - as one example - I am sure one could write a book on such animal events - remember the true story of the japanese dog who waited for his master for years at the railway station?
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People most likely gave him treats.
 
MarkD said:
Although I do believe we die in the sense we’ve always understood that word, I also believe there is more to us than that which dies. I wouldn’t call it an afterlife and I don’t know that calling what doesn’t die “me” makes much sense.

Many people hold a bias that consciousness is something the brain churns out but there is no evidence that is true. Of course without our brain we could not maintain consciousness as we know it but that is a far cry from showing consciousness is a product of brains. The hard problem of consciousness can not be bullied into silence.

From: Where Does Consciousness Come From?.


“Despite advances in our understanding of the brain, explaining how consciousness is derived remains an open question in science and philosophy. It is even referred to as the "hard problem" of consciousness, a term coined by philosopher David Chalmers.

"Why should there be a certain way to experience being a human when we are conscious that vanishes in a coma or dreamless sleep and is entirely absent in inanimate objects like chairs or jackets?" says Ralph Adolphs, Bren Professor of Psychology, Neuroscience, and Biology. "This contrast underscores a deep mystery."

Chalmers also identified the "easy problem" of consciousness: understanding brain functions like perception, attention, and memory. Neuroscientists and psychologists have made significant progress in these areas, revealing much about how neural circuits and information processing work. However, these explanations do not address what it is like to be that brain, leaving the hard problem unresolved.

The Mind–Body Problem​

This question ties into a long-standing philosophical debate known as the mind–body problem, which considers the relationship between the mental and the physical. Dualism, one view within this debate, suggests that consciousness arises from nonphysical substances or properties, such as the soul or the mind, rather than solely from brain activity. In contrast, materialist or physicalist views argue that consciousness is a product of the brain and can be fully explained by physical processes.

"Consider this example: Philosopher Gottfried Leibniz asked us to imagine miniaturizing ourselves and walking into someone's brain. Despite seeing all the molecules, neurons, and electrical potentials, we would not have any clue that there is conscious experience in that brain," Adolphs says. "Similarly, if intelligent aliens were to visit Earth and observe humans and animals from a distance, would they ever stumble upon the idea that any of these are conscious? No, how could they?"

Neuroscientists and philosophers alike continue to work toward a more comprehensive understanding of how the brain gives rise to our subjective experiences. This work calls for an interdisciplinary approach spanning the fields of neuroscience, psychology, philosophy, and computer science, with each contributing unique observations and perspectives to this complex question.”
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Excellent !
 
bobcat said:
Well, I do assume that human consciousness is discreet from other varieties. As far as we know, humans are the only species that is not only conscious, but self-conscious (Meaning that we are aware of the fact we are conscious). To my knowledge, and I belief that of the scientific community, no other species possesses that.

I don't believe that humans evolved along with every other creature since time began. The fossil record indicates that homo-erectus is a late development in the evolutionary chain. If they were around 3.5 billion years ago, someone in archeology surely would have found some record of that.

As for consciousness being solely a product of the brain, I made no such claim. My belief is that consciousness isn't just present or not present, but is in degrees. The more connectivity, the more consciousness. However, whether neuronal cells, or neurochemicals have some minute elements of consciousness built into them is anyone's guess, and it may even be possible that other parts of our body have those minute elements of consciousness. I'm not saying they do, but until consciousness if fully explained, I am certainly open to modifying my understanding.
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Animals pamper them selves all the time. Many stop and think for some minutes before they will do what you want them to do or not.
A deer will lay in the mud by a lake or creek to get the ticks off. Deer will walk along split rail fences but not alongside a high board fence.
They will attempt to jump a tall wire fence then walk down to a gate and over it. To get where they want to be. Many cross highways at a 4 way, be it from 2 field's with entry drives & gates or dirt / gravel roads. A Pheasant will return to the same area to catch the side hills afternoon suns
warmth in cold weather. They will crouch in a cricks turn out of the wind for protection for the same reason. Duck will land on a downhill
field out of the cold late fall winds during their travels when migrating. Geese will land in open fields when its raining due to freezing feathers
sometimes the whole flock freezes huddled together in the open or not. Geese and Duck will share the same Ice on a lake near an open
melted area by boat docks. /they will gradually take off in groups to get afternoon dinners and return. A goose will raise its wings and stretch. If two do it at the same time the flight in that formation will fly out together. Then the next group will start stretching. They will wait if 2
have their bills in their wings resting.
 
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Quantum Immorality is just another sub-version of the many-worlds interpretation, aka MWI, originally was just a quantum mechanics hypothesis only for the micro world, that was hijacked by science ignorant philosophers into macro world nonsense. The many-worlds interpretation implies that there are many parallel, non-interacting worlds. It is one of a number of multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy. MWI views time as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realized.

Quantum mysticism - Wikipedia

Quantum mysticism, sometimes referred to pejoratively as quantum quackery or quantum woo, is a set of metaphysical beliefs and associated practices that seek to relate spirituality or mystical worldviews to the ideas of quantum mechanics and its interpretations. Quantum mysticism is considered pseudoscience and quackery by quantum mechanics experts...

Mysticism was argued against by Albert Einstein. Einstein's theories have often been falsely believed to support mystical interpretations of quantum theory. Einstein said, with regard to quantum mysticism, "No physicist believes that. Otherwise he wouldn't be a physicist...

Philosopher of science Robert P. Crease says that MWI is "one of the most implausible and unrealistic ideas in the history of science" because it means that everything conceivable happens. Science writer Philip Ball calls MWI's implications fantasies, since "beneath their apparel of scientific equations or symbolic logic, they are acts of imagination, of 'just supposing...
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So NO. When an organic body dies whether a human, an ant, or tree, it is dead and gone, ended for eternity. The only physical part of life that might possibly be saved with animal life, is our electromagnetic brain energies, and only if provided with a proper impedance container to exist within.
 
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David777 said:
Quantum Immorality is just another sub-version of the many-worlds interpretation, aka MWI, originally was just a quantum mechanics hypothesis only for the micro world, that was hijacked by science ignorant philosophers into macro world nonsense. The many-worlds interpretation implies that there are many parallel, non-interacting worlds. It is one of a number of multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy. MWI views time as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realized.

So NO. When an organic body dies whether a human, an ant, or tree, it is dead and gone, ended for eternity. The only physical part of life that might possibly be saved with animal life, is our electromagnetic brain energies, and only if provided with a proper impedance container to exist within.
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So that's your opinion. My opinion is that there is either something or nothing. And since there is something (our universe), there is no logical reason that a finite universe would somehow come into existence all by itself. To my way of thinking, that means "something"/existence/reality is eternal and infinite (or MWI). I choose to believe that somehow/somewhere I will once again interact with my beloved wife, almost 11 years gone.
 
spectratg said:
"As far as we know" proves nothing. I don't think that you invoking the "scientific community" is a correct statement. There is increasing evidence that other animal species like dolphins and chimps have a great deal of intelligence and could very well be self-aware. African elephants use unique names for each other. We just happened got there first, that is, technology.
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Well, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love animals and am amazed by nature, but from what I read, there is a difference in conceptual thought, reasoning, and creativity, and sense of self that is unique to humans. If you believe the consciousness in animals is the same as humans, that's fine, but that's not what I read and experience.

Do Animals Have Ego? Exploring Animal Behavior and Human Uniqueness - Animals Eggo
 
spectratg said:
So that's your opinion. My opinion is that there is either something or nothing. And since there is something (our universe), there is no logical reason that a finite universe would somehow come into existence all by itself. To my way of thinking, that means "something"/existence/reality is eternal and infinite (or MWI). I choose to believe that somehow/somewhere I will once again interact with my beloved wife, almost 11 years gone.
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is:
So that's your opinion.
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should be:
So that's is just the opinion of the vast majority of scientists.
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Already answered that common idea, earlier on this thread.

Where does God live?

Indeed NO, both time and stuff never needed to be created or have a beginning if they always existed eternally...
 
OregonGuy said:
Fuzzy and others here want science to prove or disprove the theory that our brains are capable of consciousness beyond our control. Well the split-brain experiment proves our brains can behave in two ways at the same time ... just as quantum physics proved atoms can simultaneously be waves and particles ...
Split Brain Experiments: Unveiling the Mysteries of the Divided Mind
Neurology is causing science to seriously consider the Buddhism concept of conscious duality,
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There is a lot to what you say. We have two brain hemispheres as does every creature with a neuronal mass. Each side attends to the world in different ways and as persons we bring the two into focus either well or less so.

The left hemisphere (LH) is disposed to see the world in terms of its parts and looks for causal links that can be utilized to attain what is needed. Expedience and utility are of prime concern and it is the hemisphere in which language is encoded. The right hemisphere (RH) sees the whole in all its implicit complexity and does not see it as the sum of its parts as the LH does. It recognizes values such as truth, goodness and beauty but it does not use language as we do as whole persons which comes from the LH.

Evolutionarily the LH has developed to enable a creature to get dinner while the RH pays attention broadly to everything else, in part to help us avoid becoming another creature’s dinner. The LH is more interested in the world empirically and so emphasizes science. The RH more interested in values and so is interested in the truths found in the humanities including religion. Balance matters and being a one trick pony is no good.

The video below gives a sense of the research that went into understanding hemispheric differences. Iain McGilchrist wrote a book of about 500 pages called The Master and His Emissary and a later one of 1500 pages called The Matter With Things which looks into purpose, meaning, values and the sacred. Most importantly ortant book I ever read.

 
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I grew up on a farm, aware of 10's of 1000's of animals and every one of them
is different, self aware, and kind for the most part but don't piss em off.
On the farm lots of cruel thing have to be done to raise animals, castrations,
Vaccinations, cutting of sharp teeth, trimming flight feathers from chickens,
birthing calves, Baby Pigs, culling and shipping to slaughter. Raising young,
Hunting wild Birds and Rabits, fishing, etc. Never walk behind or up to the
rear of a horse, introduce yourself up front or front side. But always show
kindness for the most part to them, most everyone of them as one can &
They will do their best for you.

I met a young Possum in the summer of 2018. It was laying in the middle of my
front yard. I went out and nudged it. Didn't move. went and got a plastic shopping
bag, picked it up and put it in it, think its dead. Put it in the Trash barrel and close
the lid. Next afternoon I take a bag of trash out to the garage, open the lid and there
the possum stands looking at me. I put on a pair of Mechanical Gloves, get the
grain aluminum shovel and put the possum in it. carry it out to the back fence toward
the Timber, possum scampers away. It never once showed any aggression.

This past fall the Possum was back. 7 in years old. I feed it, it comes back for a couple of
weeks eating dog food and left again. It remembered me, it was a very hot dry fall.
OK where is it now, probably On the hunt for chow with the warmer days hunting again
for spring bugs? Edible stuff.

Will it ever come back. Its choice isn't it, knows I won't harm! I crack the garage door
just in case its starving. It liked sunflower seed too, just like squirrels!

Easiest way to trap a squirrel sprinkle sunflower seeds in a trail to the trap and inside he go.
My Dog and Cats understand Hand Signals faster than voice. Trainers have used hand
signals for 100 years or more!
 
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bobcat said:
Well, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love animals and am amazed by nature, but from what I read, there is a difference in conceptual thought, reasoning, and creativity, and sense of self that is unique to humans. If you believe the consciousness in animals is the same as humans, that's fine, but that's not what I read and experience.

Do Animals Have Ego? Exploring Animal Behavior and Human Uniqueness - Animals Eggo
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I respectfully disagree with your statement. We are incrementally different than other animals, not an order of magnitude different. We are also an arrogant and aggressive animal, the apex predator on the planet, and the most invasive species on Earth. Our supposed superiority is aided and abetted by religion.
 
Do animals have consciousness? Can animals love?

There seems to be general consensus they have consciousness,

Animal consciousness - Wikipedia

This article says its not known whether they can love:

can animals love - Bing

But this article says they can IF “love” is defined as a bond or attachment”.

can animals love humans - Search

This begs the question “what is love?”/

Love is a set of emotions and behaviors characterized by intimacy, passion, and commitment12. It involves care, closeness, protectiveness, attraction, affection, and trust1. Love can vary in intensity and can change over time1. Being "in love" includes all of the above but also involves feelings of sexual arousal and attraction3. Cross-cultural research provides evidence that the components of love are universal

Except for the sexual aspect (YUCK) I say my kitty and I are in love.
 
spectratg said:
I respectfully disagree with your statement. We are incrementally different than other animals, not an order of magnitude different. We are also an arrogant and aggressive animal, the apex predator on the planet, and the most invasive species on Earth. Our supposed superiority is aided and abetted by religion.
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You said I was assuming human consciousness was discreet from that of other animals. I replied yes I was. I didn't bring anything up regarding orders of magnitude. My reason for saying what I did is this:

There is a distinction in the characteristics of consciousness.
Basic consciousness is where the organism or animal is aware of external and internal stimuli and can respond to it.
There is also self-recognition where an animal may see their reflection and even respond to it.

Then there is self-consciousness where you not only become aware of yourself, but you also realize that you possess certain qualities such as your own thoughts, actions, and identity (That's where the self comes in). It involves being conscious of oneself as a distinct and separate entity with unique characteristics, emotions, and experiences. Self-consciousness is more like a self-evaluation or assessment. It is recognizing and acknowledging one’s own mental and physical states, emotions, and behaviors. It involves self-identity as an individual with a distinct personality, values, beliefs, and social roles. Essentially it is being conscious that you have a self.

If you believe other animals possess that quality of mind, that's your prerogative, but I don't see it. As for the qualities and behaviors of humans, good or bad, I made no assertions, so I'm not sure why you responded with that.
 
As a human, how many times has the topic "What is Love?" come up? My take is that it is highly subjective, and only humans have the ability to psychobabble it to death with their person constructs about what is and what is not required in someone's love fantasy. It must be this or that without the other, often treating sex as an unrelated issue. It can be that flutter in your heart, or maybe that's just fake love.

In my opinion, if you want to understand what love is, get a dog, feed him, train him, and be nice to him. He may be able to teach you something.
 
bobcat said:
You said I was assuming human consciousness was discreet from that of other animals. I replied yes I was. I didn't bring anything up regarding orders of magnitude. My reason for saying what I did is this:

There is a distinction in the characteristics of consciousness.
Basic consciousness is where the organism or animal is aware of external and internal stimuli and can respond to it.
There is also self-recognition where an animal may see their reflection and even respond to it.

Then there is self-consciousness where you not only become aware of yourself, but you also realize that you possess certain qualities such as your own thoughts, actions, and identity (That's where the self comes in). It involves being conscious of oneself as a distinct and separate entity with unique characteristics, emotions, and experiences. Self-consciousness is more like a self-evaluation or assessment. It is recognizing and acknowledging one’s own mental and physical states, emotions, and behaviors. It involves self-identity as an individual with a distinct personality, values, beliefs, and social roles. Essentially it is being conscious that you have a self.

If you believe other animals possess that quality of mind, that's your prerogative, but I don't see it. As for the qualities and behaviors of humans, good or bad, I made no assertions, so I'm not sure why you responded with that.
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I would concur with your position, but only to the extent that human self-awareness is far stronger than that of other animal species. However, when elephants mourn the loss of one of their own, I would argue that it is a personal loss for each of them in addition to the group loss. So I believe that particular elephant understands that the loss is to them as an individual, thus demonstrating some level of self-awareness. Of course, neither of us can read the mind of other animals.

As far as humans go, our arrogance and hubris in decimating our planet and each other and the "perception" that we somehow "own" the planet is a pet peeve of mine. That arrogance and hubris is certainly an outgrowth of our self-awareness.
 
Unrelated but these posts about consciousness makes me think about my cousin who experienced what is called ‘operative awareness’ every time he underwent surgeries for his injuries received from a motorcycle accident.

He didn’t feel pain, described it as feeling pressure but was able to accurately recount operating room staff conversations and the procedures done to his body while sedated.

During one operation he was aware of a conversation that the surgeon was having with the nurse about a tennis match at the US Open. He shocked and baffled the surgeon when he told him about the conversation.

The anesthesiologist told him he was 1 in 5,000 that can experience it. It’s happened every surgery.
 
I’m able to connect to nature, animals and my environment at a deep level. Those are different languages that I don’t think many humans understand. I’m neurodivergent so that may be why I see the world so differently than most people. Everything communicates with me and these are vast concepts to describe.

In a nutshell…

Humanity is not the center of the universe.
 
Basically, a lot of the human race is going back to being at home most of the time.
If that's going to be a civilized happening, ai running most all physical stuff, will
the human race give up / loose much of its rights? What cha thinks? Is it criminal Watson?

The homeowners sitting in the house, the Ai Garbage truck tossing their garbage cans all over. No right to complain.
The Ai Lawnmower constantly hitting the house in tight turns with free mower service. No rights to complain.
Their Ai car goes to the quick charge where it has bird crap on it coming home. No rights to complain.
Ai goes to self-car wash the next day, doesn't take you to the dinner get together, no rights to complain.
You promise to meet up next time for a great get together with your Ai-mail service. Ai knows your plans again.
It all becomes a repetitive thing. But you can't complain either. Thas the rules of amuder day combats.

An Ai causing you pain answers all your sadistic mental problems too.
 
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spectratg said:
People on TikTok are freaking out after one woman suggested that we might not ever truly pass on - and that the world could have ended many times before without our knowledge. The theory is that our consciousness goes into an alternate reality, where we exist without the memories of the world we lived in prior, except for some details that don’t seem right.

If the theory of quantum immortality - which suggests that people never really die - is accurate, then humanity might have been ended many times by apocalyptic events similar to the asteroids “taking out the dinosaurs” 65 million years ago. We would essentially have no recollection because our consciousness would endure it, and we’d awake in a parallel world where that hasn’t occurred
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Ever hear of the genre Science-Fantasy?
 

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