Thought Police in The UK??

B

Buckeye

Well-known Member
I ran across this article on another site I frequent. Sadly, I believe this is really happening in the UK. Here's an excerpt from the article:

A British Army veteran was convicted of expressing “disapproval of abortion.” This man spent 20 years proudly serving his nation. Yet, the Public Spaces Protection Order has deemed him a criminal for silently praying outside an abortion facility. He has been conditionally discharged and forced to pay a $12,000 (9,000 pound) fine for daring to pray in public.

The above video shows how disillusioned the authorities have become. “What is the nature of your prayer?” the police asked, to which the man replied he was praying for his deceased son. He was then told that he was praying in a “censorship zone,” where even your THOUGHTS can be criminalized.

Here's a link to the entire article:
Silent Prayer Prohibited
 

Buckeye said:
I ran across this article on another site I frequent. Sadly, I believe this is really happening in the UK. Here's an excerpt from the article:

A British Army veteran was convicted of expressing “disapproval of abortion.” This man spent 20 years proudly serving his nation. Yet, the Public Spaces Protection Order has deemed him a criminal for silently praying outside an abortion facility. He has been conditionally discharged and forced to pay a $12,000 (9,000 pound) fine for daring to pray in public.

The above video shows how disillusioned the authorities have become. “What is the nature of your prayer?” the police asked, to which the man replied he was praying for his deceased son. He was then told that he was praying in a “censorship zone,” where even your THOUGHTS can be criminalized.

Here's a link to the entire article:
Silent Prayer Prohibited
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I wouldn't trust anything from that site.

Martin Armstrong spent 11 years in jail for cheating investors out of $700 million and hiding $15 million in assets from regulators. He's a crook and is no doubt lying about the facts in this story.
Martin A. Armstrong - Wikipedia
 
In Canada, they are working hard trying to make a law where it is a crime to say anything good about residential school for First Nations Children. Many people here will be "beat" into silence. Too bad because difference of opinion does matter in a democracy.
 

At CARE, our vision is simple: we want to see politics renewed and lives transformed. At its best, politics can be a force for good. In Romans 13, we read that God appoints governments and gives them responsibility. Yes, good government is God’s idea!

And when politics is working well, and our leaders seek to promote good and restrain evil, we begin to see a society where everyone flourishes as God intends them to, where injustice is challenged and where the powerless are protected.

This is your second source/link
 
Buckeye said:
Yet, the Public Spaces Protection Order has deemed him a criminal for silently praying outside an abortion facility. He has been conditionally discharged and forced to pay a $12,000 (9,000 pound) fine for daring to pray in public.
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yes there are rules about protesting within an area around abortion facilities - if one person can silently pray, so could many - and a barricade of people 'silently praying' is banned for a reason.

Nothing to stop him silently praying in any other public place - just not to use 'silent prayer' as an excuse to be somewhere he shouldn't be.
 
From the AP article in Post #4:
The new rules make it an offense to obstruct someone using abortion services, “intentionally or recklessly” influence their decision, or cause “harassment, alarm or distress.” Offenders face a fine, with no upper limit.

The Crown Prosecution Service says silent prayer near an abortion clinic “will not necessarily commit a criminal offense,” and police say they will assess each case individually. Britain has banned protests outside abortion clinics, but silent prayer is a gray area
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Sounds reasonable, protects the patients from the protesters who seek to force their beliefs onto others.
 
My link in the OP has a link to a video of the arrest. No mention of a barricade, or others in prayer. How does a silent Prayer "seek to force their beliefs on others"?

I send up silent prayers all the time. When I drive by a broken down car on the highway, I thank God for keeping me on my way, and ask God to help those folks in need. When I see a homeless person shuffle along the street, I thank God for keeping a roof over my head and to help that person in need. I never pray out loud. So, if I'm in the UK, within the magic 150 meter zone, and I wish to thank God for the sunshine, and my own health and good fortune, I can be arrested and fined an unlimited amount, and that's okay?

I don't think our US courts, today, would allow this, but who knows.
 
Buckeye said:
My link in the OP has a link to a video of the arrest. No mention of a barricade, or others in prayer. How does a silent Prayer "seek to force their beliefs on others"?

I send up silent prayers all the time. When I drive by a broken down car on the highway, I thank God for keeping me on my way, and ask God to help those folks in need. When I see a homeless person shuffle along the street, I thank God for keeping a roof over my head and to help that person in need. I never pray out loud. So, if I'm in the UK, within the magic 150 meter zone, and I wish to thank God for the sunshine, and my own health and good fortune, I can be arrested and fined an unlimited amount, and that's okay?

I don't think our US courts, today, would allow this, but who knows.
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Why don't you read some of the articles that you posted links to so you can gain an understanding of why silent prayer around an abortion clinic was banned?

Here's a quote from the AP article:
“It’s difficult to see how anyone choosing to perform their prayers right outside an abortion clinic could argue they aren’t attempting to influence people — and there are countless testimonies from women who say this makes them feel distressed,” said Louise McCudden, U.K. head of external affairs at MSI Reproductive Choices, one of Britain’s biggest abortion providers."​
 
HermitHogan said:
Why don't you read some of the articles that you posted links to so you can gain an understanding of why silent prayer around an abortion clinic was banned?

Here's a quote from the AP article:
“It’s difficult to see how anyone choosing to perform their prayers right outside an abortion clinic could argue they aren’t attempting to influence people — and there are countless testimonies from women who say this makes them feel distressed,” said Louise McCudden, U.K. head of external affairs at MSI Reproductive Choices, one of Britain’s biggest abortion providers."​
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I did read that articles and saw that quote (prior to your post). Found it distressful (actually moronic) and by your logic should not be allowed. The assumption is that the prayer, although silent, is a protest, and that anything that makes the mothers-not-to-be "distressed" must not be allowed. And of course, Ms McCudden is hardly an unbiased source.

As an aside, my mother told me way back when that "if the truth hurts, it's doing its job".

I don't have a dog in the abortion fight. My issue is telling me that I cannot send up a silent Prayer without the fear of arrest and unlimited fines. And please don't be so naive to think that the right to prayer will only be limited at abortion clinics. That's just the nose of the camel.

Try better.
 
January said:
yes there are rules about protesting within an area around abortion facilities - if one person can silently pray, so could many - and a barricade of people 'silently praying' is banned for a reason.

Nothing to stop him silently praying in any other public place - just not to use 'silent prayer' as an excuse to be somewhere he shouldn't be.
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Thank you for explaining this. I was wondering.
 
It seems to me that these days there are many News & Reporting outlets that are designed to appeal to the hard of thinking. Other News & Reporting outlets are available, but many don't want to read them in order to receive a balance.

The clinic in Bournemouth, part of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, was receiving daily protests, including praying & vigils, which they said were intimidating toward the women who went there and toward their staff.

Bournemouth Council held a public consultation regarding this issue. They then imposed a Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) on Ophir Rd where the clinic is located. The then temporary Order included no assembly in front of the clinic, including no prayer vigils, as was happening previous. This Order is granted as part of the Anti-social Behaviour Act. After the PSPO was put in place protests significantly reduced, and for the most part the women and staff were then able to go about their business without intimidation.

Note that the Order mentioned was for the hours between 7 am to 7 pm. As far as I'm aware, It didn't apply outside of those hours, when there was no one at the clinic to intimidate.

Adam Smith-Connor then decided to write to Bournemouth Council to let them know he will be traveling from Southampton to Bournemouth to pray outside the clinic. He did this on several occasions, to pray for his child that was aborted 20 years ago. It was reported that on the last occasion, he was asked to move on to outside of the restriction order area. After 40 minutes or so, after not leaving, he was arrested.

There was no Order preventing him from praying there outside of the restricted hours, but he chose to repeatedly challenge the specific parameters of the PSPO, and lost. There are millions of other places in England where he could have prayed for his aborted child, privately or publically, but he chose to repeatedly test the lawful PSPO, and lost. Bigger fool him.

As for the £9,000 fine he received, that some articles mention, this seems to have nothing to do with a fine, but were his court costs. A PSPO has a fixed penalty fine of £100.

In response then to, "Thought Police in The UK??". Thought Police my arse.
 
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If reasonable, the same can be said of those kneeling at the playing of the national anthem.
They should be arrested, fined and placed on probation for attempting to force their beliefs onto others?
 
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Magna-Carta said:
It seems to me that these days there are many News & Reporting outlets that are designed to appeal to the hard of thinking. Other News & Reporting outlets are available, but many don't want to read them in order to receive a balance.

The clinic in Bournemouth, part of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, was receiving daily protests, including praying & vigils, which they said were intimidating toward the women who went there and toward their staff.

Bournemouth Council held a public consultation regarding this issue. They then imposed a Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) on Ophir Rd where the clinic is located. The then temporary Order included no assembly in front of the clinic, including no prayer vigils, as was happening previous. This Order is granted as part of the Anti-social Behaviour Act. After the PSPO was put in place protests significantly reduced, and for the most part the women and staff were then able to go about their business without intimidation.

Note that the Order mentioned was for the hours between 7 am to 7 pm. As far as I'm aware, It didn't apply outside of those hours, when there was no one at the clinic to intimidate.

Adam Smith-Connor then decided to write to Bournemouth Council to let them know he will be traveling from Southampton to Bournemouth to pray outside the clinic. He did this on several occasions, to pray for his child that was aborted 20 years ago. It was reported that on the last occasion, he was asked to move on to outside of the restriction order area. After 40 minutes or so, after not leaving, he was arrested.

There was no Order preventing him from praying there outside of the restricted hours, but he chose to repeatedly challenge the specific parameters of the PSPO, and lost. There are millions of other places in England where he could have prayed for his aborted child, privately or publically, but he chose to repeatedly test the lawful PSPO, and lost. Bigger fool him.

As for the £9,000 fine he received, that some articles mention, this seems to have nothing to do with a fine, but were his court costs. A PSPO has a fixed penalty fine of £100.

In response then to, "Thought Police in The UK??". Thought Police my arse.
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Well, all your little rant has done is to show how wrong this restriction is. But if you think it's okay to arrest and fine someone for praying, in silence, because it makes someone uncomfortable with their own choices, we will never agree on this. it's best you stay in the UK where the Thought Police may be coming after you next, and I'll stay here and silently pray for you. And God Bless Mr Smith-Connor for trying to help protect YOUR rights, even if you don't use them.

Your "arse" indeed.
 
Naturally said:
If reasonable, the same can be said of those kneeling at the playing of the national anthem.
They should be arrested, fined and placed on probation for attempting to force their beliefs onto others?
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Or protesting Capital Punishment here. Arizona has about 100 folks on death row, and has announced they will restart using the death penalty in 2025. So don't you dare protest - it might make the who are just doing their job "distressed".
 
Buckeye said:
Well, all your little rant has done is to show how wrong this restriction is. But if you think it's okay to arrest and fine someone for praying, in silence, because it makes someone uncomfortable with their own choices, we will never agree on this. it's best you stay in the UK where the Thought Police may be coming after you next, and I'll stay here and silently pray for you. And God Bless Mr Smith-Connor for trying to help protect YOUR rights, even if you don't use them.

Your "arse" indeed.
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A rant, how odd, considering my remarks were structured, factual, and reflective. It seems that you read but understand nothing.
 
Magna-Carta said:
What rant? It seems that you read but understand nothing.
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lol - do you ever read what you post? My understanding is crystal clear - you are in favor of arresting someone for offering up a silent Prayer because it may "distress" another person. That is unthinkable to me, and my Constitution gives me rights that you apparently do not have. Sadly, it is true here in the US that we must be on constant guard to protect our rights, because we, like the UK, have our share of morons.

Would it help if I typed slower so you can understand? Your "arse", and all that.
 
Buckeye said:
lol - do you ever read what you post? My understanding is crystal clear - you are in favor of arresting someone for offering up a silent Prayer because it may "distress" another person. That is unthinkable to me, and my Constitution gives me rights that you apparently do not have. Sadly, it is true here in the US that we must be on constant guard to protect our rights, because we, like the UK, have our share of morons.

Would it help if I typed slower so you can understand? Your "arse", and all that.
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And there ladies and gentlemen is another demonstration of someone reading but not understanding. And now with condescension & personal attacks.
 
chic said:
Thank you for explaining this. I was wondering.
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There was no indication that more than 1 person was praying, and there was no indication that there was any sort of barricade, or any other obstruction that would cause anyone to have a problem getting into the clinic. None. Just one man wanting to pray for his aborted son.
 
Magna-Carta said:
And there ladies and gentlemen is another demonstration of someone reading but not understanding. And now with personal attacks.
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And I guess I didn't type slow enough. :p Tell me what I did not understand about your position about the arrest of the man who was offering up a silent prayer for his son. I think it's pretty clear, and you posted it, and now you own it.

Again, your "arse", which is apparently talking for you
 
Buckeye said:
And I guess I didn't type slow enough. :p Tell me what I did not understand about your position about the arrest of the man who was offering up a silent pray for his son. I think it's pretty clear, and you posted it, and now you own it.

Again, your "arse", which is apparently talking for you
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If you say so Buckeye, if you say so.
 
Magna-Carta said:
Your mastery of assumption seems to know no bounds. Does anyone want to chime in with something intelligent to say about the subject matter instead.
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Sorry, sweetie, but you've already thrown in the towel. Too late to have your "arse" say anything else. The end.
 
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