Kathleen’s Place
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
I just have this. My very good friend’s husband died, on the spot, in a car accident. Cause of death on death certificate was Covid. Hmmmm
Vaccine-all of the rave
- Thread starter Mr. Ed
- Start date
Kathleen’s Place
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Nor do I, Becky.
asp3
Senior Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley, CA
I'm sorry to hear about your friend's husband, my condolences to her.
OK, we have one reasonably credible report. Where and when did this occur? Do we know that there wasn't a Covid related side effect (stroke or heart attack) which could have caused the auto accident in which case it could be the cause of death.
Kathleen’s Place
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
No I don’t, but he died at the scene and the accident was caused by someone running a stop sign. This happened in WI and I can’t remember the exact date but it was May or June.
she was livid when she saw the death certificate but too grief stricken to fight it. I’m not saying this happens often, but just clarifying that it does happen.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
If my son had died from COVID-19 I would have needed a straight jacket with 3 dead sons already. It’s also about the survivors who do not wish to lose any more family members or bury any more loved ones or attend any more funerals. Have some compassion for those that have to bury their dead.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Idk, COVID could have cause him to lose control of the car, coughing, lack of O2, etc. Similar when someone has a heart attack and dies in a car crash. The heart attacks kills them, not the car crash.
asp3
Senior Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley, CA
I'm sorry your friend had to deal with having an incorrect death certificate as well as the loss of her husband. I'm sure that was just another thing piled onto an already awful situation.
I do agree that incorrect covid death counts have happened, but what I am trying to say is that there has not been any credible evidence presented that this has been a widespread issue. The post I was replying to appeared to me to be saying that this was happening enough that it calls the number of deaths because of covid into question.
OneEyedDiva
SF VIP
- Location
- New Jersey
A good friend of mine mentioned this to me. She just told me last night that one of The Temptations who passed this year was listed as a COVID death but that's not what he died from. She knows the group members and has inside information. But even before that she expressed suspicion about the numbers.
Mat
Member
My Mother died the first of last month and she was listed as having covid, this was in Las Vegas. So she was put in a ward with no visitation and when she died she died of a badly infected artificial knee that was decades old. For what ever reason the knee infection caused her death and she lay there for weeks with no knee. I have no doubts there are hospitals upping the bill because it is slightly less than 30 thousand dollars more to be on a ventilator for 96 hours. Doctors and Nurses do not do the billing, it comes from the hospital billing department or what ever you want to call it. By the time you get the bill on just about everything in American healthcare it's hyper bumped. I have no doubt it has been abused just like all federal programs that handout money. I think it was pretty obvious looking at my Mother's knee she was not suffering from Covid. I expressed my opinion only and people can believe it or not, I have no incentive to provide documents or written articles from people I never heard of or don't know. In America if there is a special program to hand out money for any reason, there will be abuse.
One of many such articles:
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/07/covid19-death-certificate-change-stirs-controversy
asp3
Senior Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley, CA
Thank you! It appears that it was a national policy back in April when tests were still in short supply. It would be interesting to find out if policies changed after the tests became more available.
So the numbers my be too high but we're still left with death rates that are higher than expected plus the number of covid deaths.
asp3
Senior Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley, CA
I found this interesting page on the CDC website with a transcript of a webinar given in April with instructions for filling out death certificates. You can actually watch a recording of the webinar if you want and I'll provide the link for that as well. I only looked at the transcript and didn't read the whole thing. The section I found interesting was what I've added below.
So the advice isn't to just list it as the cause, it's that using your best clinical judgement to decide whether or not to list covid as the cause.
Webinar link (has links to the transcript and slides as well)
https://emergency.cdc.gov/coca/calls/2020/callinfo_041620.asp
Transcript link
https://emergency.cdc.gov/coca/ppt/2020/04-16-20-transcript.pdf
Next slide. So, here, I'll give some specific guidance when it comes to COVID-19. Next slide. So, if COVID-19 is determined to be a cause of death, it should be reported on the death certificate, and it likely will be the underlying cause of death. And if that's the case, then it should be on the lowest line used in part one, and then any life-threatening complications that it leads to, such as pneumonia or ARDS would be on the lines above. If possible, testing should be conducted following CDC's recommendations for reporting, testing, and specimen collection, along with post-mortem testing as well.
If a definitive diagnosis cannot be made but it is suspected or likely, meaning you think the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty, then you can report it on a death certificate as probable or presumed. And here we asked certifiers to just use their best clinical judgment in determining if COVID-19 was likely. One note that I would like to make that we've been seeing is people reporting possible COVID-19 exposure. We don't really want people to report that. So, what we're asking you to do is to make a determination if you believe the decedent had COVID-19 and it was a cause of death, not merely that they were exposed.
Of course, lots of people can be exposed to the virus but not develop the disease. So, we want certifiers to make that determination. If they think COVID-19 was likely a cause of death, and then they can report it as probable or presumed. Generally, it is best to avoid abbreviations and acronyms, but COVID-19 is unambiguous. So, it is okay to report on the death certificate, and then any pre-existing conditions that may increase the susceptibility to the disease or exacerbate the disease, such as COPD, asthma, hypertension, diabetes, et cetera, those should be in part two.
So the advice isn't to just list it as the cause, it's that using your best clinical judgement to decide whether or not to list covid as the cause.
Webinar link (has links to the transcript and slides as well)
https://emergency.cdc.gov/coca/calls/2020/callinfo_041620.asp
Transcript link
https://emergency.cdc.gov/coca/ppt/2020/04-16-20-transcript.pdf
Next slide. So, here, I'll give some specific guidance when it comes to COVID-19. Next slide. So, if COVID-19 is determined to be a cause of death, it should be reported on the death certificate, and it likely will be the underlying cause of death. And if that's the case, then it should be on the lowest line used in part one, and then any life-threatening complications that it leads to, such as pneumonia or ARDS would be on the lines above. If possible, testing should be conducted following CDC's recommendations for reporting, testing, and specimen collection, along with post-mortem testing as well.
If a definitive diagnosis cannot be made but it is suspected or likely, meaning you think the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty, then you can report it on a death certificate as probable or presumed. And here we asked certifiers to just use their best clinical judgment in determining if COVID-19 was likely. One note that I would like to make that we've been seeing is people reporting possible COVID-19 exposure. We don't really want people to report that. So, what we're asking you to do is to make a determination if you believe the decedent had COVID-19 and it was a cause of death, not merely that they were exposed.
Of course, lots of people can be exposed to the virus but not develop the disease. So, we want certifiers to make that determination. If they think COVID-19 was likely a cause of death, and then they can report it as probable or presumed. Generally, it is best to avoid abbreviations and acronyms, but COVID-19 is unambiguous. So, it is okay to report on the death certificate, and then any pre-existing conditions that may increase the susceptibility to the disease or exacerbate the disease, such as COPD, asthma, hypertension, diabetes, et cetera, those should be in part two.
With all the talk about the vaccine being available to different groups at different times, I wonder: Does anybody know how each one of us will be assigned to a particular group? For instance, today I was talking to a friend who is in her 90's and has multiple medical problems, but nothing terribly serious, as far as I know. She has a lot of chronic illnesses. She said she thinks she will be in Group 2. (Group 1 is medical personnel and first responders. Group 2 is people in nursing homes and similar facilities, and people with serious illnesses.) I don't think anybody is included in Group 2 just because they're elderly.
I was wondering how she knows that, and how will any of us know when our group has finally started receiving it? I think deciding whether to put a person in Group 2 or Group 3 will be the hardest part of it. Will we have to wait to get some sort of notification, or do we apply somewhere along the line, or what?
I was wondering how she knows that, and how will any of us know when our group has finally started receiving it? I think deciding whether to put a person in Group 2 or Group 3 will be the hardest part of it. Will we have to wait to get some sort of notification, or do we apply somewhere along the line, or what?
MarciKS
SF VIP
- Location
- Great Plains
They will administer in phases. This is what we have set up in Kansas.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Yup, it is up to them who they let in. Just like it is up to us who we let in. Another question is, if you go unvaccinated to another country, will the US let you back in without quarantining first? Or being vaccinated, or both?
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Virologists and epidemiologists have been warning about a global pandemic likelihood for decades. If this was the long con, then I have to say it was well played. Very well played.
There are discrepancies for sure, and wonder if lately they have been clearing up. Hub is a Fire Commissioner...the fire chief complained to him about a case where a senior citizen called in for an ambulance...he had fallen off a ladder and hurt his leg. The dispatcher ask if he hurt...he said "of course I hurt...just fell off a ladder." They listed him as a Covid case coming in to the hospital!.
The fire chief was hacked off as the line guys have to get full geared up to pick up the calls.
Hope its better now.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Here's a copy of the ingredients of the Pfizer vaccine. This article appeared in USA Today on December 12.
USA TODAY
Experts say the ingredients in the COVID-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer and German partner BioNTech, which was authorized Friday by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, looks pretty standard for a vaccine.
In a letter to the FDA, Pfizer listed the ingredients in its vaccine. They can be organized into four basic categories:
Active Ingredient
“Nothing too surprising there,” said Dr. Matthew Heinz, a hospitalist based in Tucson, Arizona. “It’s a normal way of packaging up medications for people.”
The only active ingredient in the vaccine is the messenger RNA encoding the viral spike of SARS-CoV-2. This describes the modified mRNA that contains the code for cells to make the spike protein specific to the virus that will help create antibodies to attack it.
The next keyingredient on the list is the lipid molecule, a small ball of fat, that contains four components. Some of the components, like cholesterol, are natural to the body. Other components, like the polyethylene glycol (PEG), are not.
PEG is used in a range of pharmaceutical, cosmetic and food products, according to FullFact.org, a registered charity and nonprofit company from England that fact-checks and debunks false or misleading claims.
There have been rare cases of allergic reactions to products with high concentrations of PEG, such as some commonly used laxatives, but the Pfizer vaccine contains a tiny amount of the substance – only enough to maintain the integrity of the lipid molecule.
Heinz said if there was any part of the vaccine that could trigger a mild allergic reaction, it could be one of the fat components but that is very rare.
“We’re talking about a number of relatively mild reactions that you can count on one hand” out of tens of thousands of people in the study, he said.
The lipid molecule protects the mRNA. Without it, the mRNA would be broken down inside the body before delivering the genetic code to the cell. This protective ball of fat is very fragile, which is why the vaccines have to be stored at subzero temperatures with dry ice or a special freezer until five days before use.
The list of salts may seem like complicated chemicals, but Heinz said they are variants of salt natural to the body that keep the pH – the acidity or basicity of a solution – balanced. The combination of these salts helps the body absorb the solution and protects the fatty molecule and mRNA.
Debunking false claims:No, the COVID-19 vaccine doesn’t cause infertility in women
“That’s just pretty basic chemistry,” Heinz said.
The sugar protects the vaccine during the freezing process. Sucrose is a glucose molecule that tastes sweet and stabilizes the vaccine in subzerotemperatures.
Before the vaccine is injected into a patient’s arm, health care providers add an extra 2.16 mg of sodium chloride per dose. The additional salt is meant to further balance the pH right before injection.
“It’s a lot of science, these vaccines take a lot of work,” Heinz said. “(But) people should not be in any way concerned or bothered by that list (of ingredients).”
Follow Adrianna Rodriguez on Twitter: @AdriannaUSAT.
Health and patient safety coverage at USA TODAY is made possible in part by a grant from the Masimo Foundation for Ethics, Innovation and Competition in Healthcare. The Masimo Foundation does not provide editorial input.
'Nothing too surprising there': Pfizer COVID vaccine ingredients are pretty standard, experts say
Adrianna RodriguezUSA TODAY
Experts say the ingredients in the COVID-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer and German partner BioNTech, which was authorized Friday by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, looks pretty standard for a vaccine.
In a letter to the FDA, Pfizer listed the ingredients in its vaccine. They can be organized into four basic categories:
Active Ingredient
- 30 mcg of a nucleosidemodified messenger RNA (modRNA) encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2.
- lipids (0.43 mg (4-hydroxybutyl)azanediyl)bis(hexane-6,1-diyl)bis(2-hexyldecanoate), 0.05 mg 2[(polyethylene glycol)-2000]-N,N-ditetradecylacetamide, 0.09 mg 1,2-distearoyl-sn-glycero-3- phosphocholine, and 0.2 mg cholesterol)
- 0.01 mg potassium chloride
- 0.01 mg monobasic potassium phosphate
- 0.36 mg sodium chloride
- 0.07 mg dibasic sodium phosphate dihydrate
- 6 mg sucrose
“Nothing too surprising there,” said Dr. Matthew Heinz, a hospitalist based in Tucson, Arizona. “It’s a normal way of packaging up medications for people.”
The only active ingredient in the vaccine is the messenger RNA encoding the viral spike of SARS-CoV-2. This describes the modified mRNA that contains the code for cells to make the spike protein specific to the virus that will help create antibodies to attack it.
The next keyingredient on the list is the lipid molecule, a small ball of fat, that contains four components. Some of the components, like cholesterol, are natural to the body. Other components, like the polyethylene glycol (PEG), are not.
PEG is used in a range of pharmaceutical, cosmetic and food products, according to FullFact.org, a registered charity and nonprofit company from England that fact-checks and debunks false or misleading claims.
There have been rare cases of allergic reactions to products with high concentrations of PEG, such as some commonly used laxatives, but the Pfizer vaccine contains a tiny amount of the substance – only enough to maintain the integrity of the lipid molecule.
Heinz said if there was any part of the vaccine that could trigger a mild allergic reaction, it could be one of the fat components but that is very rare.
“We’re talking about a number of relatively mild reactions that you can count on one hand” out of tens of thousands of people in the study, he said.
The lipid molecule protects the mRNA. Without it, the mRNA would be broken down inside the body before delivering the genetic code to the cell. This protective ball of fat is very fragile, which is why the vaccines have to be stored at subzero temperatures with dry ice or a special freezer until five days before use.
The list of salts may seem like complicated chemicals, but Heinz said they are variants of salt natural to the body that keep the pH – the acidity or basicity of a solution – balanced. The combination of these salts helps the body absorb the solution and protects the fatty molecule and mRNA.
Debunking false claims:No, the COVID-19 vaccine doesn’t cause infertility in women
“That’s just pretty basic chemistry,” Heinz said.
The sugar protects the vaccine during the freezing process. Sucrose is a glucose molecule that tastes sweet and stabilizes the vaccine in subzerotemperatures.
Before the vaccine is injected into a patient’s arm, health care providers add an extra 2.16 mg of sodium chloride per dose. The additional salt is meant to further balance the pH right before injection.
“It’s a lot of science, these vaccines take a lot of work,” Heinz said. “(But) people should not be in any way concerned or bothered by that list (of ingredients).”
Follow Adrianna Rodriguez on Twitter: @AdriannaUSAT.
Health and patient safety coverage at USA TODAY is made possible in part by a grant from the Masimo Foundation for Ethics, Innovation and Competition in Healthcare. The Masimo Foundation does not provide editorial input.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Thank you for this ^^^^, @Butterfly.