We finally can see a black hole!!!

He assumed it was an artifact of the mathematics, said physicist Daniel Kennefick, co-author of “An Einstein Encyclopedia” and the upcoming “No Shadow of Doubt.” In correspondence with French physicists in the 1920s, Einstein dismissed the idea that something could collapse forever, reaching a point of infinite density and trapping even light. (They didn’t use the term black hole, which didn’t catch on until the 1960s.)


https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinio...uldnt-believe-black-hole-theory/#.XLIj3ykmySo
 

OK, you're right, Camper. The earth is flat, with bulges. End of discussion.
 

fuzzybuddy said:
I sometimes wish I could have lived at a future time, when many of those scientific questions will be solved. It's like a good murder mystery. You have to admit the universe is a strange and wonderful place.
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Yup. What I'm waiting for is some kind of proof of a wormhole. It's part of the theory of relativity, but as far as I know, only mathematical conjecture 'proves' it at this point.
 
Camper6 said:
...... A black hole is supposed to in effect defy gravity from which nothing can escape not even light. Well in order to test that you would have to place an object there and never see it again....... I'm skeptical .Gravity is one of the least understood or explainable concepts in scientific circles......
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Yes. Since you're aware that gravity is not understood, you know the push-pull of relativity versus quantum mechanics. And for those of you who watch Big Bang Theory, you know Sheldon is working on String Theory which attempts to unify the four forces of the universe, which includes gravity.
 
Yup. What I'm waiting for is some kind of proof of a wormhole. It's part of the theory of relativity, but as far as I know, only mathematical conjecture 'proves' it at this point.
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Retired, I don't know anything about wormholes, but it's my understanding that most astronomical knowledge is "provable" by mathematical equations and provable scientific theories, rather than by our going there personally and experiencing whatever it is. For one thing, with the size of the universe and the unfriendliness of its conditions to human life, we would never come back alive. At this point, all we have is the theories of math and science. So, if we can all agree that 1+1=2, and a theorum developed from that fact proves that there are wormholes (or whatever), we are obliged to believe it. At least, until some other proof supercedes it.

That's what I love about science. Nothing anybody says is sacred; it's just what can be proven by our current state of knowledge. It's always open to question.

If the current state of knowledge says that picture is indeed a valid picture of a black hole, common sense dictates that we believe it, until somebody comes up with proof that it isn't.
 
Sunny said:
Retired, I don't know anything about wormholes, but it's my understanding that most astronomical knowledge is "provable" by mathematical equations and provable scientific theories, rather than by our going there personally and experiencing whatever it is. For one thing, with the size of the universe and the unfriendliness of its conditions to human life, we would never come back alive. At this point, all we have is the theories of math and science. So, if we can all agree that 1+1=2, and a theorum developed from that fact proves that there are wormholes (or whatever), we are obliged to believe it. At least, until some other proof supercedes it.

That's what I love about science. Nothing anybody says is sacred; it's just what can be proven by our current state of knowledge. It's always open to question.

If the current state of knowledge says that picture is indeed a valid picture of a black hole, common sense dictates that we believe it, until somebody comes up with proof that it isn't.
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Until it is proved it remains a mathematical theory. Experiments take place and theories are constantly challenged. Speed of sound. Speed of light . Etc. Proved by experiments. Big Bang. Black holes. Still theories. Science is not built on feelings or common sense.
 
Some people don't believe the first moon landing. Some people don't believe the Earth is round. Some people beilieve there is a Hell & Heaven. Some people believe creatures from other planets are here. Some people believe in witches. In this case we did not need a picture of a black hole to prove they existed.
 
retiredtraveler said:
Yes. Since you're aware that gravity is not understood, you know the push-pull of relativity versus quantum mechanics. And for those of you who watch Big Bang Theory, you know Sheldon is working on String Theory which attempts to unify the four forces of the universe, which includes gravity.
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Well think of it this way. If what is said about it is that you can't see a black hole because it emits no light. So all it is at this point is a mathematical conjecture and a composite photograph.

Do you believe in the Big Bang theory?
 
fmdog44 said:
Some people don't believe the first moon landing. Some people don't believe the Earth is round. Some people beilieve there is a Hell & Heaven. Some people believe creatures from other planets are here. Some people believe in witches. In this case we did not need a picture of a black hole to prove they existed.
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Everything has a purpose. What is the purpose of a black hole?

Don't try to slough it off on the moon landing or a round Earth or heaven or hell.

Let's just stick to the black hole for now. A place that defies gravity?
 
Camper6 said:
Everything has a purpose. What is the purpose of a black hole?

Don't try to slough it off on the moon landing or a round Earth or heaven or hell.

Let's just stick to the black hole for now. A place that defies gravity?
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A black hole defies more than gravity. It does not adhere to the laws of physics as we know them.
 
We don't have a good understanding of what goes on beyond the event horizon. General relativity tries to explain the curvature of space time due to mass. This mathematical modelling could estimate the behavior of light due to its physical properties. But the key thing is, that space-time is curved so much beyond the event horizon of a black hole that light is unable to escape the gravitational acceleration towards the singularity. So as far as velocity is concerned; there are ways to estimate, but physically, we have no idea what really happens "at the center" of a black hole.​
 
fmdog44 said:
We don't have a good understanding of what goes on beyond the event horizon. General relativity tries to explain the curvature of space time due to mass. This mathematical modelling could estimate the behavior of light due to its physical properties. But the key thing is, that space-time is curved so much beyond the event horizon of a black hole that light is unable to escape the gravitational acceleration towards the singularity. So as far as velocity is concerned; there are ways to estimate, but physically, we have no idea what really happens "at the center" of a black hole.​
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Good post
 
Thanks for providing that, Retired. I found it fascinating, especially where he describes how if we fell into a black hole, we might exit into another universe. Breathtaking stuff!
 

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