What do you hate about church?

davey said:
I think I am leaning towards a "church" that is available 24/7 in some form not just sunday service? - a community that lives together and shares together and cares together. One day a week is easy peasy - anyone can do that but what about caring for your local community and each other almost 24/7 - some services available in the day for sure but some emergency teams - rotated weekly perhaps that can care for those members of the church who may be sick/disabled/ depressed/suicidal etc etc - the church imo should be a vibrant part of its member community not just for Sunday best??
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Why the Church? Which one.

The neighborliness of which you speak involved all of us, especially women who were the caregivers with no pay! I think the traditional family order is very important to society, and the homemaker is very, very important to society. She not only cared for everyone in the family, but also the neighbors who were injured, sick, very young or old.

That social order was promoted in secular books, including secular school books. I argue in favor of this. I live my life as though these values are very important and I joined others in changing state law to strengthen family and the grandparents tie to family.

Now please explain why you think an organization based on a myth that started in Sumer with a goddess who made a man and woman with mud and breathed life into them, is necessary?
 

because many of us are looking for "our God" and sitting around doing nothing doesn't help. Humans are above the animals of the earth. we catch and control them but with each other need to be more cautious and polite. but first thanks to
 
I have always refused to believe that we crawled from the muddy swamps to become humans - too many smart scientists making the wrong assumptions. I also refuse to believe that life on this planet was totally accidental. Humans are complex have complext cranial wiring ; are capable of great skills and compassions and have complex brains that enable us to feel ; think and act in a civilized manner. I don't believe we are all alone in the universe ; we just haven't developed enough technology to prove it! We are complex sentient beings capable of great love and compassion but also unfortunately hatred and destruction. I do believe we are being watched for progress!!
 

ElCastor said:
How could we compare the humanity of 1824 with that of 2024. The differences are far greater than merely religious. Religion may have had considerable impact on the early structure of humanity, but as time goes on religion may, or in some cases may not, greatly decline in influence.
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Humanity to me refers to the philosophical changes in our cultures. Some of us view horrible crimes with a sense horror, while in other cultures the severing of a hand for stealing is quite the norm. That has nothing to do with the calendar date. I see ebbs and flows of church attendance that commonly tracks major events in the world. How many candles were lit at the alter immediately following 911, as compared with the crimes of Bernie Madoff? When people are comfortable church attendance declines, but put fear and uncertainty before them and see the numbers reverse.
 
TennVet said:
I can't say I hate church, I just don't feel that way about it. When Covid was running rampant in our community it was just as risky to gather in church as any other gathering of close quarters. We adopted the practice then of viewing the Sunday services online. We still contribute our offering as in the past, we just mail it in. I don't want to enter a discussion of Covid and all its issues, but we were confronted with persons who not willing to use any precautions. With my wife's compromised health I just felt it was better to err on the side of caution.

I don't care for TV evangelists so I don't tune in. Our remote works we don't have to hear and see what we don't wish to participate in. Kind of like a gossip, I just tell them I don't wish to be a part of the conversation, mainly because I don't want to be listed as a participant just because I was within shouting distance.
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I have empathy for the homeless, but I don't think enabling encampments', drug handouts, and throwing money at the issue solves it. I frankly building public housing and the creation as well as expansion of the welfare system is political pandering and a sleezy path to buy votes.
 
Mobilman44 said:
But what hit me a number of years ago, is that no matter how "right" we feel we are, no matter how strong and logical our arguments may be, we will NEVER convince the other party that they are wrong in their belief.
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True words and ones I recently had to face with family members. I just had to finally say “ I don’t believe as you do but I love and care for you and will try to continue a relationship with you”

I have to bite my tongue a lot and remind myself not to become what I dislike.
 
TennVet said:
I have empathy for the homeless, but I don't think enabling encampments', drug handouts, and throwing money at the issue solves it. I frankly building public housing and the creation as well as expansion of the welfare system is political pandering and a sleezy path to buy votes.
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I would die on the streets if it were not for political pandering. So much for being what society told us to be and my father's insistence that I study only homemaking and stay home to care for the family. When it was obvious that was not going to work, I returned to college and my father visited and told my husband he should be in college, not me. The story does not get any better from there. So men make up your minds. What should a good woman do and how much should she get paid? While she works who is going to care for the children?

Oh, and you remember that recession when Carter was our president? Economic collapse can have a very negative impact on our choices and futures. I hate it when I see an old person with a walker going to the St Vincent de Paul place for homeless people. We thought that kind of thing happened only in countries like India. Today the homeless are begging on our corners. I also hate it when it is a family that is homeless. That is no way for a child to grow up.
 
TennVet said:
Humanity to me refers to the philosophical changes in our cultures. Some of us view horrible crimes with a sense horror, while in other cultures the severing of a hand for stealing is quite the norm. That has nothing to do with the calendar date. I see ebbs and flows of church attendance that commonly tracks major events in the world. How many candles were lit at the alter immediately following 911, as compared with the crimes of Bernie Madoff? When people are comfortable church attendance declines, but put fear and uncertainty before them and see the numbers reverse.
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If a person believes we are the result of evolution and there is no supernatural being taking care of us and no supernatural being trying to take our souls, the only alternative is hope that we figure out how to make a better world.

Historically bad times can turn people against the belief in a Father in heaven. Christianity took us into the darkages when it destroyed the places of learning and kept us in the darkages. Now let us hunt those witches and burn them and exterminate the Jews who displease God and talk about what is wrong about the theory of evolution.
 
davey said:
it has never been seen as the churchs responsibility to provide house and land for people to live on??
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No my child. The Father will take care of those who are deserving. Christians should give charity but they are limited in what they can do. The need is far greater than the Churches' ability to provide and we should not assure there is enough low-income housing and child care for all those who need it because the larger body of the government should not be pandering to those people. Just say your prayers and God will take care of everything. 😵‍💫
 
Vida May said:
If a person believes we are the result of evolution and there is no supernatural being taking care of us and no supernatural being trying to take our souls, the only alternative is hope that we figure out how to make a better world.

Historically bad times can turn people against the belief in a Father in heaven. Christianity took us into the darkages when it destroyed the places of learning and kept us in the darkages. Now let us hunt those witches and burn them and exterminate the Jews who displease God and talk about what is wrong about the theory of evolution.
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Remembering back to world history classes, there have been more wars fought in the name of religion (or maybe the lack of religion) than any other cause of war. I don't think that has yet changed. It just seems there are so many false flags that it is hard to determine the true motivation behind some of what we call issues.
 
the word church was originally translated from Greek for "the called out ones" - it wasn't a building or an org- it was a gathering of common believers who eventually were asked to continue preaching the gospel abroad and encouraging others to join - it was never originally seen as a gathering who could provided accomodation to many or cure many sicknesses - all this has evolved. I once worked with my wife and kids for a catholic org who provided large modern houses which house our family of four and then six other homeless kids in a modern purpose built large home. this has evolved but was never part of the original plan. Maybe they just thought "let's see we it runs too??"
 
Consider the following:

- The Earth is an average size planet.
- The Sun, a means of our existence, is a middle sized star.
- While there are no exact numbers, the universe contains millions (billions?) of stars.
- Some, (most ?) of those stars have planets revolving around them.
- With all those other planets in existence, surely a portion must have some form of life on them.

That said, I firmly believe that we are "not alone". Are we more developed than others? Or are we just "primitive beings" in comparison. Maybe a reason for not actually seeing other lifeforms is that we are just too insignificant for them to bother with. You know, maybe Earth is just not that big of a deal in the total scheme of things.

I choose to believe in a higher power. I am a Christian, although I no longer go to Church.

But I respect those that have other higher power beliefs, be them Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism or others. All us "believers" realize our situation, and the world around us just didn't happen. And it didn't happen overnight.

The Bible says that the Universe and Earth came to be in "six days". Well, I guess some like to interpret that as "24 hour days". But as no one was around to witness that "creation", perhaps those "days" were really many billions of Earth years long.

I apologize for putting all this out there in one post, I just couldn't stop myself this morning....
 
Mobilman44 said:
Consider the following:

- The Earth is an average size planet.
- The Sun, a means of our existence, is a middle sized star.
- While there are no exact numbers, the universe contains millions (billions?) of stars.
- Some, (most ?) of those stars have planets revolving around them.
- With all those other planets in existence, surely a portion must have some form of life on them.

That said, I firmly believe that we are "not alone". Are we more developed than others? Or are we just "primitive beings" in comparison. Maybe a reason for not actually seeing other lifeforms is that we are just too insignificant for them to bother with. You know, maybe Earth is just not that big of a deal in the total scheme of things.

I choose to believe in a higher power. I am a Christian, although I no longer go to Church.

But I respect those that have other higher power beliefs, be them Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism or others. All us "believers" realize our situation, and the world around us just didn't happen. And it didn't happen overnight.

The Bible says that the Universe and Earth came to be in "six days". Well, I guess some like to interpret that as "24 hour days". But as no one was around to witness that "creation", perhaps those "days" were really many billions of Earth years long.

I apologize for putting all this out there in one post, I just couldn't stop myself this morning....
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I love your post. It is full of wonder and invites us to think about many things. For me, this is the reason to turn my computer on and look for an interest subject to talk about.

“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light‐years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
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I think it was Carl Sagan who suggested we have not met beings from other planets because when we evolve to this point, we self-destruct. Our resources are exhausted, our economies collapse so we can not support our very complex societies, and after the mass extinction life may go on but it would be a long time before humans could get us back to this point.
 
davey said:
I have always refused to believe that we crawled from the muddy swamps to become humans - too many smart scientists making the wrong assumptions. I also refuse to believe that life on this planet was totally accidental. Humans are complex have complext cranial wiring ; are capable of great skills and compassions and have complex brains that enable us to feel ; think and act in a civilized manner. I don't believe we are all alone in the universe ; we just haven't developed enough technology to prove it! We are complex sentient beings capable of great love and compassion but also unfortunately hatred and destruction. I do believe we are being watched for progress!!
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Please which wrong assumption should we chose to discuss? This might help us determine what we can believe and what is unbelievable.....

Scientific understanding requires both facts and theories that can explain those facts in a coherent manner. Evolution, in this context, is both a fact and a theory. It is an incontrovertible fact that organisms have changed, or evolved, during the history of life on Earth. And biologists have identified and investigated mechanisms that can explain the major patterns of change. Evolution: Fact and Theory | National Center for Science Education
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Mobilman44 said:
Consider the following:

- The Earth is an average size planet.
- The Sun, a means of our existence, is a middle sized star.
- While there are no exact numbers, the universe contains millions (billions?) of stars.
- Some, (most ?) of those stars have planets revolving around them.
- With all those other planets in existence, surely a portion must have some form of life on them.

That said, I firmly believe that we are "not alone". Are we more developed than others? Or are we just "primitive beings" in comparison. Maybe a reason for not actually seeing other lifeforms is that we are just too insignificant for them to bother with. You know, maybe Earth is just not that big of a deal in the total scheme of things.

I choose to believe in a higher power. I am a Christian, although I no longer go to Church.

But I respect those that have other higher power beliefs, be them Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism or others. All us "believers" realize our situation, and the world around us just didn't happen. And it didn't happen overnight.

The Bible says that the Universe and Earth came to be in "six days". Well, I guess some like to interpret that as "24 hour days". But as no one was around to witness that "creation", perhaps those "days" were really many billions of Earth years long.

I apologize for putting all this out there in one post, I just couldn't stop myself this morning....
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NICE POST! m44
 
davey said:
only a God could have made all of that??
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Able to mentally grasp...stuff has always existed ?

...It is one of two possibilities. Either 1, matter/energy/stuff was created so had a beginning or 2, matter/energy/stuff always existed so didn't need to be created. To be created brings a need for some possibly magical like [God] power to be involved or unimaginable circumstance of physical existence. Since we sentient entities, are witness to matter/energy/stuff existing at this moment, the easier, more likely logical conclusion is that, 2 is vastly more likely to be true...

The above noted, that does not mean stuff now is like it has always been as matter/energy/stuff at least within the limited universe we exist within has likely evolved either naturally or due to UIEs in a lab since appears strangely fine tuned for life.
 
Now here is an interesting juxtapositioning ? [? mark for Pepper!] I came across and evangelist today just by chance as we all do from time to time on the 'net. He started off "straight Jew lad" ; had his Bat Mitzvah and then still confused and in doubt with life left home ; wandered about a bit and eventually converted to Christianity. He know runs a large org worldwide and is either a charlatan or the real thing ? - you need to decide for yourself - but he does preach a pretty similar tale to Christ himself and the converted Saul [Paul]

Rabbi Schneider - a follower of Christ
 
davey said:
Now here is an interesting juxtapositioning ? [? mark for Pepper!] I came across and evangelist today just by chance as we all do from time to time on the 'net. He started off "straight Jew lad" ; had his Bat Mitzvah and then still confused and in doubt with life left home ; wandered about a bit and eventually converted to Christianity. He know runs a large org worldwide and is either a charlatan or the real thing ? - you need to decide for yourself - but he does preach a pretty similar tale to Christ himself and the converted Saul [Paul]

Rabbi Schneider - a follower of Christ
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There are Jewish Christians (Christian Jews?) and always have been throughout history, at least during times when they were not being persecuted.
 

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