What happened to honesty?

Elsie said:
Because of my essential tremor neurological disorder balance problem, I had to change from a 2 wheeler to an adult tricycle with back basket. šŸ«¤ (Little kids thought seeing me riding a big ol tricycle was funny. šŸ˜ ) It became my "wheels". I used it for grocery shopping & other store shopping, till it was stollen. I was sick about it. Fortunately I was able to buy a new one, with strong lock, I was FREE again to go here and there. I'd even settle my little grandson in the basket and we would ride off to the park, and to the beach many times.
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There's a lady who lives near me who has ridden an adult tricycle for as long as I can remember. I think she simply can't ride a 2 wheel bike through balance issues.. nut I live on the top of a very steep hill.. reagrdless of what direction we approach it, and there are 4 different directions... and I have no idea how that woman gets that heavy bike up the hills..
 

hollydolly said:
There's a lady who lives near me who has ridden an adult tricycle for as long as I can remember. I think she simply can't ride a 2 wheel bike through balance issues.. nut I live on the top of a very steep hill.. reagrdless of what direction we approach it, and there are 4 different directions... and I have no idea how that woman gets that heavy bike up the hills..
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I also rode my tricycle to the dentist. There was a fairly steep sidewalk incline part way to dentist. Did a lot of huffing & puffing (sometimes walking) up it. I once took my small T V in the basket to a repair shop. :D
 
Eupher said:
Sorry, but I'm not buying your argument.

A condition of poverty doesn't lead one to steal on the scale we've seen, unless there is a total lack of respect, empathy, and sense of right versus wrong. This condition is called "thuggery" in my book. No other word for it.

Once a person reaches legal age, that's the line in the sand. I have no sympathy for someone who pleads "poverty!" after they've looted their local CVS pharmacy.
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I don't hear them pleading "poverty!" but they wouldn't be stealing on that scale if they weren't poor. I'd rather see poor people rip off CVS than have them mug someone in the park or break into people's homes.

It's tough to work your way out of poverty ā€” especially in the 21st century when the cost of living is so high. Some people don't have the motivation or intelligence to do it, and that's a symptom of a sick society, as is poverty itself. Children are raised in conditions where they don't have any hope for a better life. They don't see a way out, so they resort to crime.

What about the local auto repair shop that rips off customers on a regular basis? Or conmen who steal from the elderly? Or people who misrepresent a product they're selling or a service they're providing... people who commit fraud. And corporations that rip off the government, and we have to pay for it with our tax dollars?

White collar criminals often don't make the national news because it's not blatant theft and not frightening like hoards of people ripping off a department store and breaking windows, but it's even more egregious because they don't need to be dishonest; they just don't see a problem with it so they do it and most of the time, get away with it. And if they do get caught, they just have to pay a little fine and that's the end of it while poor people get sent to prison for far less.
 

Bretrick said:
No doubt if I was to replace it with a new one that would be stolen as well.
Dogs miss out, no more water bowl out front. Birds will have another bowl, out back.
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Yeah, and you know your saucer is under some jerk's plant. Thank you for doing a bowl out back for the birds. They will find it.
 
HermitHogan said:
I don't hear them pleading "poverty!" but they wouldn't be stealing on that scale if they weren't poor. I'd rather see poor people rip off CVS than have them mug someone in the park or break into people's homes.
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We clearly disagree on this issue of "poverty" and that's fine.

My final comment in this thread, FWIW -- destruction of the family unit is far more of a predictor for wanton theft, looting and destruction associated with catastrophes and other social "issues" than is "poverty". Using "poverty" as a pretext to excuse criminal behavior reflects more on the failure of the culture -- borne of the high incident rate for single-provider families -- to hold people accountable.

Combine that with weak criminal justice systems and you've got what we've seen in the George Floyd, BLM, and Antifa debacles of a few years ago.

Looting can never be excused by poverty. A poor person who refuses to resort to crime has a higher moral and ethical calling than those who use a weak system of accountability failure as a pretext to steal.
 
Stealing is a crime that has many nuances. I am pretty brutally honest and have been my whole adult life. But in college we were a bit wildā€¦we stole hay and chickens. Cleaned out gardens after dark. About put my eye out stealing corn. We were wild and free and it was fun. We fished where you were not suppposed to, drank on fake idā€™s and all those things. We grew up to be state representatives, ran ranches, became teachers and real estate agents. I have absolutely no regrets and remember all of this when i judge othersā€¦
 
Muskrat said:
Stealing is a crime that has many nuances. I am pretty brutally honest and have been my whole adult life. But in college we were a bit wildā€¦we stole hay and chickens. Cleaned out gardens after dark. About put my eye out stealing corn. We were wild and free and it was fun. We fished where you were not suppposed to, drank on fake idā€™s and all those things. We grew up to be state representatives, ran ranches, became teachers and real estate agents. I have absolutely no regrets and remember all of this when i judge othersā€¦
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Yikes! Not a positive history that would give confidence in y'al's integrity in your present careers. šŸ«¤
 
Muskrat said:
Stealing is a crime that has many nuances. I am pretty brutally honest and have been my whole adult life. But in college we were a bit wildā€¦we stole hay and chickens. Cleaned out gardens after dark. About put my eye out stealing corn. We were wild and free and it was fun. We fished where you were not suppposed to, drank on fake idā€™s and all those things. We grew up to be state representatives, ran ranches, became teachers and real estate agents. I have absolutely no regrets and remember all of this when i judge othersā€¦
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Would I be wrong if I guessed the state representatives in your group when you were young were the one's who stole the most and ask this regardless of where you live ? Lol

Btw , I grew up in an area with plenty of low level , under the radar retired mobsters as those were different times , I was no choir boy either but in a different arena because if I had taken anyone's tomato plants , etc I would not be around , lol.


I do regret plenty of it but like you most certainly remember it and realize I got lucky and never pinched .

I've done a 180 since then but again '' remember all of this when judging others '' .
 
Eupher said:
We clearly disagree on this issue of "poverty" and that's fine.

My final comment in this thread, FWIW -- destruction of the family unit is far more of a predictor for wanton theft, looting and destruction associated with catastrophes and other social "issues" than is "poverty". Using "poverty" as a pretext to excuse criminal behavior reflects more on the failure of the culture -- borne of the high incident rate for single-provider families -- to hold people accountable.

Combine that with weak criminal justice systems and you've got what we've seen in the George Floyd, BLM, and Antifa debacles of a few years ago.

Looting can never be excused by poverty. A poor person who refuses to resort to crime has a higher moral and ethical calling than those who use a weak system of accountability failure as a pretext to steal.
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Being that retired from the Military you have met countless from low income areas who enlisted , plenty of them never got a break in life and had some stories to tell .

I do agree that looting is no excuse . I think you and few others here like Coocoo puffs joined in 80's ?

Standards then had picked up but regardless you still meet countless who came from poverty regardless of race / ethnicity . Some sadly could not get '' the streets '' out of their system and kicked out but in my time since drafted way more lax .
 
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Eupher said:
We clearly disagree on this issue of "poverty" and that's fine.

Combine that with weak criminal justice systems
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USA has one of the highest rates of incarceration in the world, it's hardly weak.
There's also a culture of kick down and kiss up which doesn't consider much else in the way of extenuating circumstances.
In my line of work the only time you look down on someone is when you offer a hand to help them up.
 
What happened to honesty? I think what happened was people are now much more separated and divided because of how impersonal it has become. People move around so much it is hard to establish relationships like we did 60 yrs ago. Florida is now so full of strangers in a hurry to get somewhere I don't recognize much of it anymore. The new community is social media ...sort of like this. We cant hear each other voices or see faces but we are becoming acquainted 21st century style.

I am very fortunate in that I live in a small town. So we see each other more and become comfortable with it. I live across the street from our very small post office. I know her (the postmaster) and she knows me. The one store we meet and greet at times. My neighbor just now sent her son over with a small box of Valentines treats. She does it for Christmas too and has for many years. I served on the city council with her husband and our kids did some scouting and camping together........I grew up in a small Fla own like this.

As for honesty I went to the Univ of Fla in Gainesville. And lived there till I was 45. I lost my wallet more than a few times and only once was it not returned.......When the world becomes crowded and we become strangers to one another it changes things. Distrust and fear take over. It does not help at all when leaders promote this sort of ideology about others in our society. I find that when I speak to a stranger now days they seem to want to talk. As if they want that connection and miss it. I can tell there are LOTS of decent, good and honest folks here......
 
stephenPE said:
What happened to honesty? I think what happened was people are now much more separated and divided because of how impersonal it has become. People move around so much it is hard to establish relationships like we did 60 yrs ago. Florida is now so full of strangers in a hurry to get somewhere I don't recognize much of it anymore. The new community is social media ...sort of like this. We cant hear each other voices or see faces but we are becoming acquainted 21st century style.

I am very fortunate in that I live in a small town. So we see each other more and become comfortable with it. I live across the street from our very small post office. I know her (the postmaster) and she knows me. The one store we meet and greet at times. My neighbor just now sent her son over with a small box of Valentines treats. She does it for Christmas too and has for many years. I served on the city council with her husband and our kids did some scouting and camping together........I grew up in a small Fla own like this.

As for honesty I went to the Univ of Fla in Gainesville. And lived there till I was 45. I lost my wallet more than a few times and only once was it not returned.......When the world becomes crowded and we become strangers to one another it changes things. Distrust and fear take over. It does not help at all when leaders promote this sort of ideology about others in our society. I find that when I speak to a stranger now days they seem to want to talk. As if they want that connection and miss it. I can tell there are LOTS of decent, good and honest folks here......
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Since you are a native Floridian , I'm in Miami thus have told you enough by that , after 6 - 7 years here had enough and I speak Spanish / Italian fluently so not about that .

Florida is still a great state but again Miami no comment , however as you stated it is getting packed and developers buying it all up even farms
 
Muskrat said:
Stealing is a crime that has many nuances. I am pretty brutally honest and have been my whole adult life. But in college we were a bit wildā€¦we stole hay and chickens. Cleaned out gardens after dark. About put my eye out stealing corn. We were wild and free and it was fun. We fished where you were not supposed to, drank on fake idā€™s and all those things. We grew up to be state representatives, ran ranches, became teachers and real estate agents. I have absolutely no regrets and remember all of this when i judge othersā€¦
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My youth was dramatically lighter on group stealing and heavier on fake IDs, trying illicit drugs and underage drinking. I was also fairly careless when it came romantic relationships, and went through guys like they were candy.

Those experiences brought me where I ended up: an honest, (mostly) law-abiding, upstanding, empathetic, productive adult who's now in the 45th year of a very good marriage.

Sometimes the only way to get from childhood to adulthood is through a rocky adolescence and early twenties.

Even straight-laced Amish communities provide an outlet for youthful acting out without imposing lifelong repercussions. While not Amish, I bear in mind my own Rumspringa-type days when seeing young people going through theirs.
 
Anyone see their youthful (simple) illegitimate actions that negatively affected another(others) as something that would badly have affected their lives, even subconsciously, and on into adult hood? Or you just think that if it has, they're being ridiculous?
 
Elsie said:
Anyone see their youthful (simple) illegitimate actions that negatively affected another(others) as something that would badly have affected their lives, even subconsciously, and on into adult hood? Or you just think that if it has, they're being ridiculous?
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I think some probably did affect others, but presume those effects soon waned with time and life experience, just as others' actions toward me have moved far from my own consciousness.
 
Most people react to time and circumstance. I look at life as a journey we take. We live we learnā€¦and if we are lucky we love. We are all in different stages of our journey. Some choices we make are spontaneous or situational. Some choicesā€¦even poor onesā€¦become a lifestyle.
 
NotCompSavy said:
Being that retired from the Military you have met countless from low income areas who enlisted , plenty of them never got a break in life and had some stories to tell .

I do agree that looting is no excuse . I think you and few others here like Coocoo puffs joined in 80's ?

Standards then had picked up but regardless you still meet countless who came from poverty regardless of race / ethnicity . Some sadly could not get '' the streets '' out of their system and kicked out but in my time since drafted way more lax .
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I enlisted in the mid-70s, Jan. 75 to be specific. The poorest I've ever been occurred during the Carter administration (late 70s). Couldn't afford a car and had to take the train to work. Couple of haircuts per month, two trips to the commissary per month with taxi fare back home (17 km one-way) and baked my own bread to save more.

But I never resorted to stealing or looting because of being relatively "poor".
 
Eupher said:
I enlisted in the mid-70s, Jan. 75 to be specific. The poorest I've ever been occurred during the Carter administration (late 70s). Couldn't afford a car and had to take the train to work. Couple of haircuts per month, two trips to the commissary per month with taxi fare back home (17 km one-way) and baked my own bread to save more.

But I never resorted to stealing or looting because of being relatively "poor".
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You got "a couple of haircuts per month?" I get a haircut about once every two months.
 
I believe that stealing food if you have children to feed and you have no money is about the only time I can even come close to thinking it's ok. Specially since there are food banks, Church pantries, and kind people all over the country. But if you done all that, and your kids are still hungry, you need to think about whatever it is that you're doing wrong, and do something else.

There was a woman with three kids who used to sit at the entrance of the Bayshore Mall in Eureka with a sign that says "Rent takes all of our food money," and people would give her a lot of money. After doing that for months, she started getting lazy about it and sent the kids to do it alone. The oldest was a 12 year old girl.

She got arrested for child neglect after that. The cops searched her house and found 1,000s of dollars in a box in her bedroom closet. CPS took her kids after she was sentenced to a year in jail.

I always tell people, no matter how desperate you get, remember that doing anything illegal will get you thrown in jail. Who will take care of your kids then? So ask for help, and don't be stupid.
 
Many years ago, my friend's brother had to go into a nursing home. He was a returned soldier from the war in Malaya. She got him a T.V.
so he had something to keep him occupied. One afternoon he was sleeping in his bed when a man came into his room and stole the T.V.
they never did get it back and the nursing home had no record of the event. Gees, there are some lowlifes in this world. Let's hope he has nothing but bad luck after the event.
 
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