What happens now with Ukraine?

Murrmurr said:
Probably 85 to 90% of the money the US "gives" to Ukraine never leaves the US. It's used to pay our own military for battlefield arms, equipment, supplies, and trainers who train Ukrainian soldiers, and to pay the American factories that produce all that stuff so they can buy materials, most of which are American, pay their American employees, and hire more Americans as needed.

That's how war makes money. People used to pitch and moan about that. Called it the Military Industrial Complex like it's a dirty word. Suddenly they forgot how rich we get during war?
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War is big business.
 

chic said:
Not true. That is more than partisan.
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The part about Medicare and SS is in the party platform which you can read, if you care to do so. And any news outlet of your choice will confirm the fact that certain politicians have tied funding Ukr w "immigration reform" or "border security" when no actual fiscal connection exists. It's not one or the other, it could be both.
 
Brookswood said:
According to a recent WSJ article the Russian army has been reduced to about 90%.
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There are plenty of people to be recruited there, it's not like they're giving people a choice.

Widow of Vietnam Vet said:
I LOVE to talk Politics but certainly wont do that here.

But I am becoming very concerned about our own border, with so many immigrants crossing into America every day.
I believe most of these people are Good people, but I feel something must be done to radically change the in-flow.

I heard this AM that about ten thousand more people are on the way, many are on the rooftops of trains.

I am the product of immigrants who became citizens of USA.
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That's an entirely different subject. But you know how you ensure a deluge of Ukrainian immigrants? You don't allow Russia to take it over.

I wonder how many people voting against continuing to support Ukraine are happy to wave money through for Israel?

This also makes me wonder just how strong the US's response would be to an attack on a NATO country - for how long would they follow through with their commitment?
 
Teacher Terry said:
They will have to compromise which is what should have happened to start with. I don’t think we should give Ukraine or Israel money when we have a large homeless population including veterans.

Russia will not invade Poland as they have done in the past because it’s a NATO country. My DIL’s entire family lives there so I am glad that they joined NATO.
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I SO agree with you about this Terry. I've always heard "Take care of home first". Why is it there's no more money for social programs here. They can't increase the budget to feed and house hungry families, including helpless children and our impoverished seniors..there's just not enough money for that! But they can send billions upon billions overseas at the drop of a hat. It's just not right and it irks me to no end.

I admired President Zelinski at first but every time you turn around, he's asking for more and more. A couple of months ago my podiatrist told me that he saw that Israel's president basically told Pres. Biden to mind his business (not verbatim) but that the U.S shouldn't tell him what to do about the war. Yet they are excepting tons of money in aid. SMDH!
 
Totally disgusted by the naivete I see spoken here; shallow views and lack of historical depth. Laughable, if it weren't cryable. Highly unsophisticated superficial thinking. That's all.
 
I think as the war winds down, Zelensky will take off with some of the millions he was able to steal from the American taxpayer. The former comedian, who is now the self-imposed dictator of Ukraine is following his plan to a T.

The U.S. has given them everything they have, including money, airplanes and weapons, which was supposed to help them win the war. The U.S. has given much more than any other nation while some of our own people here at home have suffered. Every time we give money to Ukraine or Israel or any other country, it’s borrowed money. Let them borrow their own money, but they won’t because they can’t because their dollars are all but worthless compared to U.S. dollars. I read on here from a former poster that we have to borrow money to give it to other countries and that’s mostly true.

As long as our elite are making money from the war, it will continue.

This is a really good topic to debate. I hope no one takes anything personal just because it goes against their opinion. I would like to read more poster’s opinions.
 
911 said:
I think as the war winds down, Zelensky will take off with some of the millions he was able to steal from the American taxpayer. The former comedian, who is now the self-imposed dictator of Ukraine is following his plan to a T.

The U.S. has given them everything they have, including money, airplanes and weapons, which was supposed to help them win the war. The U.S. has given much more than any other nation while some of our own people here at home have suffered. Every time we give money to Ukraine or Israel or any other country, it’s borrowed money. Let them borrow their own money, but they won’t because they can’t because their dollars are all but worthless compared to U.S. dollars. I read on here from a former poster that we have to borrow money to give it to other countries and that’s mostly true.

As long as our elite are making money from the war, it will continue.

This is a really good topic to debate. I hope no one takes anything personal just because it goes against their opinion. I would like to read more poster’s opinions.
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Perhaps you could start by explaining how an elected leader has become a "self-imposed dictator"? I'm not understanding your point at all. What has he stolen from the American tax payer? What evidence is there that he has squirreled away any funds so he can "take off"? Reagan was a former actor, was that an issue too? Trump was a former TV show host.

I will also note, the US never get involved in a war unless there's something in it for them. It's not charity. It's a strategic decision. It's not like the US get involved in every single war around the world. They only get involved when there is a self-interest. Just one of which is, letting Russia have Ukraine threatens NATO countries. People might say, "oh, Putin wouldn't do that", but this whole war was partly triggered by anti-NATO feeling in Russia.

If a NATO country is attacked, then we have a far greater problem on our hands, and American troops are going to be involved. That's without all the money being given to the Military Industrial Complex, and the money contracts to be won for rebuilding efforts. You've got to think ahead and big picture.

The US has set itself to be the Policeman of the world. This is done through diplomatic ties, agreements, and various organizations. It's been going on for decades. Along with that role comes a need to spend money to support it. They get much in return through trade, influence, and diplomacy. Would the US be as powerful today without having done any of this over the decades? I guess we'll never know.

Domestically? It's a different animal. Does anyone seriously believe that if the US got out of the Ukraine war, then the money would be used to help the homeless? Really? We're talking about a country that doesn't have free healthcare not because it can't afford it, but because there's no will to do it. You have a country that has more gun deaths than every other country, bar Brazil, but refuses to put gun control in place because "freedom". Hell, people are applauding Tesla and their new truck partly because its bullet proof. Think about what that's saying about society. None of it exists because of a lack of overall funds, it's a lack of will.

The US has budget issues. The previous President increased the national deficit by almost eight-trillion (and is running again!) The current President isn't fixing it. The first President that tries is going to get thrown up because of the cuts he/she will need to do. In fact, since 1970 there has only been one period where there was no deficit - and that was under Clinton (1998-2001). Deficits aren't new, or apparently too injurious to people overall (unless you think it's been hell since 1970).

US/Russia angst has been going on for a long time. The Ukraine war has allowed the US to run down their military without having a soldier on the ground. Goodness knows how much intelligence they've been able to gather about the Russian threat. A war in Europe will hurt the US, and the entire planet. That is why this is worth fighting for.

Of course, this is just a bunch of people on the internet exchanging opinions. I'll say it again, I don't see others complaining about the money going to Israel. The US gives Israel over 3bn every year - and that's without a war. Why is that okay?
 
911 said:
I think as the war winds down, Zelensky will take off with some of the millions he was able to steal from the American taxpayer. The former comedian, who is now the self-imposed dictator of Ukraine is following his plan to a T.

The U.S. has given them everything they have, including money, airplanes and weapons, which was supposed to help them win the war. The U.S. has given much more than any other nation while some of our own people here at home have suffered. Every time we give money to Ukraine or Israel or any other country, it’s borrowed money. Let them borrow their own money, but they won’t because they can’t because their dollars are all but worthless compared to U.S. dollars. I read on here from a former poster that we have to borrow money to give it to other countries and that’s mostly true.

As long as our elite are making money from the war, it will continue.

This is a really good topic to debate. I hope no one takes anything personal just because it goes against their opinion. I would like to read more poster’s opinions.
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I agree. As long as something as reprehensible as war is profitable the average citizen will be paying to finance wars forever. I'm sure Zelensky skimmed enough to support himself in style for life at the expense of others. It sickens me. :sneaky:
 
chic said:
I agree. As long as something as reprehensible as war is profitable the average citizen will be paying to finance wars forever. I'm sure Zelensky skimmed enough to support himself in style for life at the expense of others. It sickens me. :sneaky:
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Why are you sure he's "skimmed enough"?

If we insist of capitalism as being our societal foundation, then you can't remove it from war, sadly.
 
I wouldn't say that Quebec has all the maple syrup. It's produced in the US as far south as Mississippi up to Wisconsin, NY, VT, NH, NJ, Maine, etc.

Along w maple syrup come the Quebecois, no thanks. Oui, bonjour, Hi!
 
911 said:
I think as the war winds down, Zelensky will take off with some of the millions he was able to steal from the American taxpayer. The former comedian, who is now the self-imposed dictator of Ukraine is following his plan to a T.

The U.S. has given them everything they have, including money, airplanes and weapons, which was supposed to help them win the war. The U.S. has given much more than any other nation while some of our own people here at home have suffered. Every time we give money to Ukraine or Israel or any other country, it’s borrowed money. Let them borrow their own money, but they won’t because they can’t because their dollars are all but worthless compared to U.S. dollars. I read on here from a former poster that we have to borrow money to give it to other countries and that’s mostly true.

As long as our elite are making money from the war, it will continue.

This is a really good topic to debate. I hope no one takes anything personal just because it goes against their opinion. I would like to read more poster’s opinions.
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Before approving aid to Ukraine, the US congress assigned members of US intelligence, the military, and international economic experts to two different task forces whose purpose it is to vet all recipients of Ukrainian aid.

Additionally, no money is transferred or given to any Ukrainian person, politician, military representative, bank, or financial institution. Money is given to 3 international humanitarian aid organizations, and they have been fully vetted.

That money is less than 2% of the total aid package the US allocates for Ukraine.

Zelensky doesn't get a single dime from the US. In fact, all he gets is meals and a nice room whenever he visits.

His country's military gets all kinds of goodies. Guns and ammo, tanks, uniforms, boots and socks, missiles and missile launchers, trucks, night-vision goggles.... They even get pizzas now and then. I'm not kidding. But money, they don't get.

Only the US gets money out of this.

Money paid to employees who work in the US factories that produce the guns, tanks, boots, etc for the Ukrainian military, and US federal subsidies given to those same factories. And the factories buy the materials and streamline their factories to get this stuff made quickly and efficiently, which generates income and tax revenue here in the US.

And the factory workers spend the money they earn, increasing someone else's income and generating tax revenue for their state and the feds.

It's the ol' Military Industrial Complex at work. It creates jobs, wealth, and economic upswings right here in the US. Only here. Only in the US.
 
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againstthegrain said:
If you expand on this thinking it would be ok for the US to invade MX or CA and then sit down together so the US can tell them what's left of their country.

PS Hopefully the US is smart enough to let CA keep Quebec!
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For a number of years Russia has wanted the part of Ukraine where the people are mostly Russian, speak Russian and want to be a part of Russia. Zelenskyy could have avoided the war by giving them this area. The same is not true of the US and Mexico.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
I SO agree with you about this Terry. I've always heard "Take care of home first". Why is it there's no more money for social programs here. They can't increase the budget to feed and house hungry families, including helpless children and our impoverished seniors..there's just not enough money for that! But they can send billions upon billions overseas at the drop of a hat. It's just not right and it irks me to no end.

I admired President Zelinski at first but every time you turn around, he's asking for more and more. A couple of months ago my podiatrist told me that he saw that Israel's president basically told Pres. Biden to mind his business (not verbatim) but that the U.S shouldn't tell him what to do about the war. Yet they are excepting tons of money in aid. SMDH!
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I have spent considerable time reading about the various conflicts in the Middle East and it’s not going to be resolved because no one has the desire to reach a lasting solution that is a win win for everyone. For us to keep throwing money at it and the Ukraine war is ridiculous.

For the people that say that we won’t redirect that money to our own country so we might as well give it away that’s shameful. Our country has huge deficits, our infrastructure is dangerous and failing and our people are suffering. That’s not okay.

Every year our homeless population grows and it now includes seniors whose SS check isn’t large enough for them to rent a room in a house. If a family gave away all their income yet couldn’t afford to feed their children we would look at them with disgust. That’s what our country is doing. Diva, I’m so glad you care about the less fortunate here and wish that others would.
 
Teacher Terry said:
For a number of years Russia has wanted the part of Ukraine where the people are mostly Russian, speak Russian and want to be a part of Russia. Zelenskyy could have avoided the war by giving them this area. The same is not true of the US and Mexico.
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The polls taken about whether Crimea wanted to be part of Russia were as corrupt as they can be. There is nothing to stop anyone in Ukraine from moving to Russia if they so wish. But you don't start parceling out your countries lands to make it happen. You especially don't do this when the threat, if you don't, is a military attack.

I appreciate your want for peace and a negotiated settlement. That said, Russia don't want it, and Ukraine don't want it. Russia is asking for too much. They already had Crimea, and now they want more. If you don't see this as a never-ending spread, I don't know what it. If someone burgles your home, and you catch them, do you throw them out, or do you negotiate which items they're allowed to take with them?
 
Teacher Terry said:
For a number of years Russia has wanted the part of Ukraine where the people are mostly Russian, speak Russian and want to be a part of Russia. Zelenskyy could have avoided the war by giving them this area. The same is not true of the US and Mexico.
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That'd be like a US president giving Pennsylvania to Germany because there's a large German community there. Or giving Michigan to Lebanon or Iran because it has the largest Muslim population.

No. You don't just give some dictator part of your country.

Ukrainians live in Ukraine. They all have Ukrainian citizenship. Some have duel citizenship; Russian and Ukrainian. Many of them speak both languages.

Ukrainians who want to live in Russia are free to do so, because unlike citizens of Russia, Ukrainian citizens have the right to move about.

Zelenskyy didn't start this war, Russia did. Russia invaded Ukraine specifically to steal Ukrainian territory. Zelenskyy will deny him any of it, and it's obvious that Ukrainians would rather die than give any part of their country to Putin. Throughout the entire country, from Kyyiv to Crimea and L'viv to Luhansk, the Ukrainian people totally support their president.
 
Vaughn and Murmur , I appreciate your points but unfortunately Ukraine doesn’t have the luxury of a long war because they can’t afford it. If not for massive amounts of our money they would have already lost. That’s the sad reality.
 
Teacher Terry said:
Vaughn and Murmur , I appreciate your points but unfortunately Ukraine doesn’t have the luxury of a long war because they can’t afford it. If not for massive amounts of our money they would have already lost. That’s the sad reality.
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So, they just say yes to Putin's demands?

That isn't going to happen.

Putin wants Alaska, too. Should we make a deal? No. Not even under threat of a nuclear attack.

You don't just hand your people over to a maniac.

There are people on the territories Putin wants. Millions of people. Families. How is it so easy to just dismiss that fact?
 

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