What happens now with Ukraine?

VaughanJB said:
Why are you sure he's "skimmed enough"?

If we insist of capitalism as being our societal foundation, then you can't remove it from war, sadly.
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I finally get to use the “ignore” button.
 

Murrmurr said:
So, they just say yes to Putin's demands?

That isn't going to happen.

Putin wants Alaska, too. Should we make a deal? No. Not even under threat of a nuclear attack.

You don't just hand your people over to a maniac.

There are people on the territories Putin wants. Millions of people. Families. How is it so easy to just dismiss that fact?
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We pick and choose which countries to help. We have stood by while some countries have committed genocide. We are not the policemen of the world and cannot save everyone. That’s why we have NATO.
 
Jace said:
Listening to radio'talk show..
Astrologer stated.."it'll be over in 6 months".
if only😉
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P.S..also...stated...Zelinsky will be gone..
And..some Mayor...from...I don't recall Ukraine city.
But..he may be 'gaining' prominence..
Wil be next 'in charge'
 

Teacher Terry said:
Vaughn and Murmur , I appreciate your points but unfortunately Ukraine doesn’t have the luxury of a long war because they can’t afford it. If not for massive amounts of our money they would have already lost. That’s the sad reality.
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Of course. They were not prepared for war. Guess who else hasn't got their own money to fight wars? Israel. But it's not about the money, it's the strategic relevance, alliances, and memberships. Virtually no country in the world benefits from a war in the heart of Europe. Let alone the possibility of a wider war. If anyone thinks the US won't get dragged into a larger war in Europe.... I also don't think countries are free to take over other countries on the basis they're wealthier and the other guys can't afford to defend themselves.

We simply mustn't lose sight of the reality. Putin is the bad guy here. He has tried to use his military might to take over Ukraine, which borders with NATO countries. We're supposed to believe he'll stop because he wouldn't dare attack NATO - well that's only true until he does it. And if he does it, it's too late.
 
oldman said:
I finally get to use the “ignore” button.
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Please do. If it makes your forum experience better, I'm all for it. I asked a simple question, that's all. If an insinuation is made, surely it's based on some kind of evidence, no?
 
Teacher Terry said:
We pick and choose which countries to help. We have stood by while some countries have committed genocide. We are not the policemen of the world and cannot save everyone. That’s why we have NATO.
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No, you can't save everyone. Why are you choosing to stop at Ukraine? Why are you for giving a pass to a dictator of Russia? Why did the US give so much if they weren't going to see it through?
 
VaughanJB said:
No, you can't save everyone. Why are you choosing to stop at Ukraine? Why are you for giving a pass to a dictator of Russia? Why did the US give so much if they weren't going to see it through?
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Maybe we thought that the war would be quickly won and never thought it would still be going after 2 years. I am not in charge obviously but I am against continuing for the reasons previously stated. We cannot afford to be paying for wars all over the world.
 
Teacher Terry said:
Maybe we thought that the war would be quickly won and never thought it would still be going after 2 years. I am not in charge obviously but I am against continuing for the reasons previously stated. We cannot afford to be paying for wars all over the world.
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I respect your opinion. However, you can afford it, you're simply choosing not to do it. Which is legitimate. The reason, I believe, the recent bill didn't get passed was entirely political. After some pork barrel spending is figured out, the bill will be passed. IMO.
 
911 said:
I think as the war winds down, Zelensky will take off with some of the millions he was able to steal from the American taxpayer. The former comedian, who is now the self-imposed dictator of Ukraine is following his plan to a T.

...

This is a really good topic to debate. I hope no one takes anything personal just because it goes against their opinion. I would like to read more poster’s opinions.
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I do not see Zelenski as a dictator. I see him as the unlikely leader who has emerged at exactly the right time for the Ukranian people. Great leaders are a bit like that. During the Great War (1914 - 1918) the man who is renowned as one of our great military leaders was John Monash, of Melbourne. Before the war he was a civil engineer. Like Zelensky, he had a strategic mind. The troops respected him, as they do Zelensky.
 
I think it'll go on one way or another.

The military-industrial complex will not have it any other way. It would wreck the economies of Virginia, California, New York, and Texas. All you have to do is look at the DOD's list of spending by State. Those 4 dwarf all others together.
 
VaughanJB said:
No, you can't save everyone. Why are you choosing to stop at Ukraine? Why are you for giving a pass to a dictator of Russia? Why did the US give so much if they weren't going to see it through?
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Good point, VaughanJB.
Unfortunately, the US has a bit of a reputation for not seeing wars through to the finish.
 
Warrigal said:
Good point, VaughanJB.
Unfortunately, the US has a bit of a reputation for not seeing wars through to the finish.
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Yeah, the bankers and investors will be getting itchy feet now since Russia has been drained - lots of potential now for investment and making some cash. It's time for the war to be pushed aside by corporate interests so we can spin up the markets again......
 
VaughanJB said:
I respect your opinion. However, you can afford it, you're simply choosing not to do it. Which is legitimate. The reason, I believe, the recent bill didn't get passed was entirely political. After some pork barrel spending is figured out, the bill will be passed. IMO.
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We are a country deeply in debt. Tell the people living under bridges and freezing to death in the winter that we can afford it.
 
Teacher Terry said:
We are a country deeply in debt. Tell the people living under bridges and freezing to death in the winter that we can afford it.
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I gave my opinion on this earlier in the thread. War in Ukraine is not the reason there are people are living under bridges. It's because there is no will to put it right. When someone says, "we don't have the money to help them", it's the ALLOTMENT of money that isn't there, not the money itself. I also stated earlier, the US has had a deficit since 1970 bar a handful of years under Clinton. Stopping giving money to Ukraine will not make any more money available to the homeless. It's not how the system works.

As an aside, I do want to point out what should be obvious - those pro helping Ukraine are not pro-war. I'd like all wars to stop. I hate people are dying out there. But the alternative for Ukrainians is to live under the dictatorship of a psychotic leader.
 
Many of those that will be making decisions on Ukraine are no longer buying what some here are constantly selling like their media as though their purpose is to change opinions instead of just understanding the range of member personal viewpoints. On this small web board with just a few members possibly able to be manipulated, that tact has little value versus at large social media sites. But then that is a political issue, so many are not going to bother seriously engaging even when they disagree with postings.

Instead, members could educate themselves far more if such matters by on Google searching with "neoconservative globalism" where one can read expert opinions on both sides. Oh yeah, it is and has been a manipulative media game and the last thing media manipulators want is for citizens to actually read about those secretly out of public sight pulling strings or why.

Elites know what their selling won't be liked by the general public so they manipulate and outright lie. Globalism being another way of saying Wall Street, especially their bankers, Ivy Tower university elites, and military industrial complex warmongers just like when I came of age and was sent into the Viet Nam War.
 
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VaughanJB said:
I gave my opinion on this earlier in the thread. War in Ukraine is not the reason there are people are living under bridges. It's because there is no will to put it right. When someone says, "we don't have the money to help them", it's the ALLOTMENT of money that isn't there, not the money itself. I also stated earlier, the US has had a deficit since 1970 bar a handful of years under Clinton. Stopping giving money to Ukraine will not make any more money available to the homeless. It's not how the system works.

As an aside, I do want to point out what should be obvious - those pro helping Ukraine are not pro-war. I'd like all wars to stop. I hate people are dying out there. But the alternative for Ukrainians is to live under the dictatorship of a psychotic leader.
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It just occurred to me that as a European of course you want the US to spend money saving Ukraine for obvious reasons. In a year we have a 50 percent chance of being under a psychotic dictator ourselves. It’s a very real possibility.
 
Teacher Terry said:
It just occurred to me that as a European of course you want the US to spend money saving Ukraine for obvious reasons. In a year we have a 50 percent chance of being under a psychotic dictator ourselves. It’s a very real possibility.
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Well, it's not better here. The EU had a 55bn bill voted down by Hungary. Why? Their leader is close to Putin. It's politics.

Ultimately this will back fire on Putin. He didn't want NATO to expand, and this will only accelerate new members. All gossip aside, I don't trust Putin to never press the button. He's pure evil, and nothing he says can be taken at face value. Caution is the only way to proceed.
 
Teacher Terry said:
Maybe we thought that the war would be quickly won and never thought it would still be going after 2 years. I am not in charge obviously but I am against continuing for the reasons previously stated. We cannot afford to be paying for wars all over the world.
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If you mean the US thought the war against Ukraine would be quickly won by Russia, you may be right. However, no one thought it would be quickly won by Ukraine.

Did you know the US warned Ukraine's Directorate of Intelligence and Ministry of Defense ahead of time that Russia was poised to attack, and that an attack was absolutely imminent? Consequently, Ukrainian troops were beefed up a bit along the Polish-Ukrainian border, Ukrainian intelligence people housed themselves in the area, and the Pentagon was already talking to the US president about funds.

The cost of "wars all over the world" has nothing to do with the US refraining from getting involved in all of them. The issue isn't cost, it's politics. Mainly geopolitics. It's unfair politics, imo, and some of it is downright inhumane. I'm thinking of men being disfigured and maimed and women and girls being raped and children starving to death in parts of Africa and Eurasia. The US can afford to intervene in that crap but it doesn't.

VaughanJB said:
No, you can't save everyone. Why are you choosing to stop at Ukraine? Why are you for giving a pass to a dictator of Russia? Why did the US give so much if they weren't going to see it through?
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I'm confident they will see it through.

Why the stupid bullheadedness in congress, I don't understand. I mean, I know why, I just don't understand it. It is politics 100%. It's also 100% stupid. They can't be stupid enough to block the funding clear up until Nov 2024. I refuse to believe that. One of our 5-Star wearers needs to educate a few House-members; sit 'em down and scare the bejeezez out of 'em. And if that doesn't work, grab 'em by the freaking shoulders and give 'em a good shake, slap 'em around a bit...something for criminy's sake!
 
Murrmurr said:
If you mean the US thought the war against Ukraine would be quickly won by Russia, you may be right. However, no one thought it would be quickly won by Ukraine.

Did you know the US warned Ukraine's Directorate of Intelligence and Ministry of Defense ahead of time that Russia was poised to attack, and that an attack was absolutely imminent? Consequently, Ukrainian troops were beefed up a bit along the Polish-Ukrainian border, Ukrainian intelligence people housed themselves in the area, and the Pentagon was already talking to the US president about funds.

The cost of "wars all over the world" has nothing to do with the US refraining from getting involved in all of them. The issue isn't cost, it's politics. Mainly geopolitics. It's unfair politics, imo, and some of it is downright inhumane. I'm thinking of men being disfigured and maimed and women and girls being raped and children starving to death in parts of Africa and Eurasia. The US can afford to intervene in that crap but it doesn't.


I'm confident they will see it through.

Why the stupid bullheadedness in congress, I don't understand. I mean, I know why, I just don't understand it. It is politics 100%. It's also 100% stupid. They can't be stupid enough to block the funding clear up until Nov 2024. I refuse to believe that. One of our 5-Star wearers needs to educate a few House-members; sit 'em down and scare the bejeezez out of 'em. And if that doesn't work, grab 'em by the freaking shoulders and give 'em a good shake, slap 'em around a bit...something for criminy's sake!
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Election next year. Posturing. The ridiculous charade of a republican leadership election. Pork barrel politics. It's the perfect storm.

It's like the cold war was a meaningless piece of nonsense. Russia are friends, right? Madness.
 
Warrigal said:
I do not see Zelenski as a dictator. I see him as the unlikely leader who has emerged at exactly the right time for the Ukranian people. Great leaders are a bit like that. During the Great War (1914 - 1918) the man who is renowned as one of our great military leaders was John Monash, of Melbourne. Before the war he was a civil engineer. Like Zelensky, he had a strategic mind. The troops respected him, as they do Zelensky.
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If he’s not a dictator why did he freeze all voting and close some churches for a start?
 
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