What I don’t understand about Christianity

Gardenlover said:
God also created the natural processes (like chemistry) to bring about life, including the DNA code. The complexity surely points to a creator.
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This is where God loses me. It seems preposterous. God is supposed to have created Giant Squid, creatures that can only live by thermal vents many feet below the surface , invertebrates, our nervous system, our digestive system (which relies 100% on myriad bacteria), the details of the eye and how it works, of sweat, semen, hair follicles and quantum physics. The cosmos, distant galaxies, the goldelock zones, the chemistry of the sun, of black holes, dark matter, thought, the detailed climatic and chemistry of millions of celestial objects............................. Not for me.
 
Gardenlover said:
God also created the natural processes (like chemistry) to bring about life, including the DNA code. The complexity surely points to a creator.
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It points to the precise opposite, imo. It's too vast, too complex, and too widespread. And if it's all God's knowing work, from which did he build the model?
 

Lara said:
Christians don't have any desire to try to guess the answers to questions that are not yet revealed by our Creator because we just trust that He will reveal what we need to know in His perfect time.
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Faith! And that is what faith is, and why faith (the belief in things we do not empirically know) is important. Some simply need some kind of evidence (me). Others say, ""we just trust that He will reveal". Which is predicated on a belief that "He" exists. It's the great divide.

For me to believe, I would need proof, evidence. And "evidence" is more than tree's, the environment, what I see and feel. I need him to present himself in a way I can accept. And that has not happened.

I suspect, at some point in the future (probably distant future), that we're going to find life on other planets and find that it has followed an biologically similar path, DNA and all.
 
StarSong said:
Ghandhi's experience of Christians is remarkably similar to my own. I've known a lot of "Christians" - who I call CHINOs (CHristians In Name Only). I grew up up in the church, then attended for many years as an adult, and have read the Bible cover-to-cover. The number of true followers of Christ that I've run into? Let's just say I can count them on one hand and have fingers left over.

Most CHINOs really get off on beating people up with their Bibles.

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I thought I was the only one who dislikes most Christians, especially the "born agains".
 
VaughanJB said:
Insincerity. A universal dislike.
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It strikes me as arrogance more than insincerity. Proclaiming to "know" your path is the only true path (simply because you believe it to be), and that those who don't follow that path are not only wrong, but damned for eternity by an all powerful, supposedly benevolent, creator.

A being, I might add, whose creations include LGBTQ+s, who according to many "Christians" then damns those creations for indulging in the very desires He plants in them. Hard to reconcile benevolence with dooming people to failure.

Jesus's lessons are worthy of heeding. As are some (but not all) the words attributed to many religious founders.

Judaism gets many things right IMO, particularly the importance of questioning, pondering, and discussing, rather than blindly following and believing.

Nobody knows for sure what happens after death (believing isn't the same as knowing), but I think whatever it is, it's there for us all.
 
StarSong said:
It strikes me as arrogance more than insincerity. Proclaiming to "know" your path is the only true path (simply because you believe it to be), and that those who don't follow that path are not only wrong, but damned for eternity by an all powerful, supposedly benevolent, creator.
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The most relevant Bible verse regarding "thou shalt not judge" is Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged." This verse, and its companion verses in Luke 6:37, warns against making self-righteous judgments of others, as we will be judged by the same standards we use to judge others.

I've never read anyone's post in SF claiming to "know" that their path is the only true path, and that those who don't follow that path are not only wrong, but damned for eternity. Perhaps some preachers way back in the day...like in the movie Pollyanna. But she changes him. That was my favorite movie when I was very young.
 
StarSong said:
It strikes me as arrogance more than insincerity. Proclaiming to "know" your path is the only true path (simply because you believe it to be), and that those who don't follow that path are not only wrong, but damned for eternity by an all powerful, supposedly benevolent, creator.

A being, I might add, whose creations include LGBTQ+s, who according to many "Christians" then damns those creations for indulging in the very desires He plants in them. Hard to reconcile benevolence with dooming people to failure.

Jesus's lessons are worthy of heeding. As are some (but not all) the words attributed to many religious founders.

Judaism gets many things right IMO, particularly the importance of questioning, pondering, and discussing, rather than blindly following and believing.

Nobody knows for sure what happens after death (believing isn't the same as knowing), but I think whatever it is, it's there for us all.
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Here's the problem for me.

God has never, to my knowledge, spoken to me. I am not opposed to the idea, I've just never seen/felt it.

When I mention this to Christians, people who already believe, one of three things seem to apply. Either 1) I'm not open to the idea or listening; 2) He has spoken to me and I missed it; 3) Proof is in the trees, the flowers, and life itself - which personally just seem to be part of mother nature and the cycles of the planet I'm stuck on.

Either way, I think I am open. There's just a big hollow nothing out there. I don't want to NOT believe, it's simply my conclusion based on a life time of experience. I listen to believers, and their rationale seems thin, flimsy. Only by looking at anything but the detail, do they accept. While in the US, people seemed to believe by default. It's a christian nation. I cannot be an American.

Do I have to seek God, or will God come to me? Frankly, at this late stage in life, only the latter will matter. A lifetime is long enough to seek. And seeking until you find seems like an inevitable conclusion whether it be a God or a potato.

In the mean time, I try not to do others harm. I try to give of myself, even when others, looking from the outside, might suggest I give up.

My father died four years ago, and I had to bid him farewell. Gone. He died, he passed on. No spirit remains. My mother, well, she's into her 90's.
 
Lara said:
No need to announce it. Haters/dislikers are usually easy to spot. I hope you find peace.
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I too dislike 'born agains' - by which I mean strident over zealous self righteous religious types - I have no issue at all with people who believe and practice Christianity or Islam or Hinduism or anything - if they do not try to impose it on others and act all high and mighty with it.

I guess you can call me a disliker if you want - you don't have to spot me though, I am openly saying so.
 
Jan,
I hear what you're saying. That's certainly your choice. Btw, "Born Again" simply is a catch phrase to describe someone who has chosen to change from unbeliever to believer. Do you think there's something wrong with that?

VaughanJB...
I know what you mean when some believers say God spoke to them...I don't think they mean an audible voice. Have you ever heard a believer say, "He spoke to me in a still quiet voice?" Here's what they mean....

Let's use an example where maybe the person has struggled about something, didn't have an answer, not a clue, but while talking prayerfully to God about it and seeking an answer...BAM...the answer comes soo quickly and with soo much clarity...an answer that couldn't possibly have come up on their own with that much clarity and making total sense. And then you just know it was God "speaking" to you with the answer.

That has happened to me more than once and it's quite powerful and obvious but not audible. I don't think it can be because God has no gender but a voice is either male or female. Others may have experienced an actual voice of some sort but I haven't experienced that.
 
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VaughanJB said:
Here's the problem for me.

God has never, to my knowledge, spoken to me. I am not opposed to the idea, I've just never seen/felt it.

When I mention this to Christians, people who already believe, one of three things seem to apply. Either 1) I'm not open to the idea or listening; 2) He has spoken to me and I missed it; 3) Proof is in the trees, the flowers, and life itself - which personally just seem to be part of mother nature and the cycles of the planet I'm stuck on.

Either way, I think I am open. There's just a big hollow nothing out there. I don't want to NOT believe, it's simply my conclusion based on a life time of experience. I listen to believers, and their rationale seems thin, flimsy. Only by looking at anything but the detail, do they accept. While in the US, people seemed to believe by default. It's a christian nation. I cannot be an American.

Do I have to seek God, or will God come to me? Frankly, at this late stage in life, only the latter will matter. A lifetime is long enough to seek. And seeking until you find seems like an inevitable conclusion whether it be a God or a potato.

In the mean time, I try not to do others harm. I try to give of myself, even when others, looking from the outside, might suggest I give up.

My father died four years ago, and I had to bid him farewell. Gone. He died, he passed on. No spirit remains. My mother, well, she's into her 90's.
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Edited: Sorry, not a fair question. Not one I would want asked of me.
 
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Mr. Ed said:
Perhaps quoting the Bible in some way satisfies you, but the Bible is not an objective point of view.. Can you provide a different source of references? The Bible is strongly biased as the only source of Christian teachings.

Why do people quote the Bible as truth when is far from being objective? There is no debate just one sided information
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Christianity is not monolithic. The ethos of my church is "Come as you are, that's how I want you."
 
Keep writing, vent, get it all out. Feel any better.....................no.
Find any answer......................no
keep screaming, keep yelling, keep expressing how you feel. Tired? done? exhausted?
Take a deep breath.
Get quiet. Close your eyes and know that God has you. If you truly believe that He is here, That Jesus did die on the cross. That his actions were meant to cleanse you of your sins then close your eyes and sleep. God, indeed has you.
Your belief in the reality of the sacrifice of Jesus is the difference. He either did or he did not. It is either a myth or a reality?????????
Make a choice and then go to another forum. Don't waste your time. You have it figured out.
The rest of us can still be questioning. We will continue to ask questions and look for answers
 
I listen to songs about Christ many hours each day. However, I do NOT believe He was a "god." The only god I believe in is Mars, the God of War. He's very good at causing all the wars caused by Him over the many centuries.
 
Lara said:
I think you must know that we were ALL created with the ability to make choices...it's not a "perhaps"
You have made your choice clear over and over...ad nauseam.

And no one needs you or Capt Lightning to tell anyone to question their beliefs about life and death. It's instinctive.

So why do you still struggle so?..."teaching people to question?" Seriously? You're not Jesus🤭 Do you think maybe you should question yourself? Maybe you'll finally find peace and joy in that journey and then you can text about that. I'm not suggesting Christianity...you've closed the door on that.

Over and out. That's all I have to say.
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Ok folks that’s a wrap
 
Lara said:
Jan,
I hear what you're saying. That's certainly your choice. Btw, "Born Again" simply is a catch phrase to describe someone who has chosen to change from unbeliever to believer. Do you think there's something wrong with that?
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IME those who use that term to describe themselves or their sect come under the types I described in my previous post

and yes there is something wrong with them.
 
VaughanJB said:
This is where God loses me. It seems preposterous. God is supposed to have created Giant Squid, creatures that can only live by thermal vents many feet below the surface , invertebrates, our nervous system, our digestive system (which relies 100% on myriad bacteria), the details of the eye and how it works, of sweat, semen, hair follicles and quantum physics. The cosmos, distant galaxies, the goldelock zones, the chemistry of the sun, of black holes, dark matter, thought, the detailed climatic and chemistry of millions of celestial objects............................. Not for me
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yes he even did it for you too!!
 
VaughanJB said:
Faith! And that is what faith is, and why faith (the belief in things we do not empirically know) is important. Some simply need some kind of evidence (me). Others say, ""we just trust that He will reveal". Which is predicated on a belief that "He" exists. It's the great divide.

For me to believe, I would need proof, evidence. And "evidence" is more than tree's, the environment, what I see and feel. I need him to present himself in a way I can accept. And that has not happened.

I suspect, at some point in the future (probably distant future), that we're going to find life on other planets and find that it has followed an biologically similar path, DNA and all.
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and maybe their own God??
 
VaughanJB said:
Here's the problem for me.

God has never, to my knowledge, spoken to me. I am not opposed to the idea, I've just never seen/felt it.

When I mention this to Christians, people who already believe, one of three things seem to apply. Either 1) I'm not open to the idea or listening; 2) He has spoken to me and I missed it; 3) Proof is in the trees, the flowers, and life itself - which personally just seem to be part of mother nature and the cycles of the planet I'm stuck on.

Either way, I think I am open. There's just a big hollow nothing out there. I don't want to NOT believe, it's simply my conclusion based on a life time of experience. I listen to believers, and their rationale seems thin, flimsy. Only by looking at anything but the detail, do they accept. While in the US, people seemed to believe by default. It's a christian nation. I cannot be an American.

Do I have to seek God, or will God come to me? Frankly, at this late stage in life, only the latter will matter. A lifetime is long enough to seek. And seeking until you find seems like an inevitable conclusion whether it be a God or a potato.

In the mean time, I try not to do others harm. I try to give of myself, even when others, looking from the outside, might suggest I give up.

My father died four years ago, and I had to bid him farewell. Gone. He died, he passed on. No spirit remains. My mother, well, she's into her 90's.
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when you get to the other side and first say " OMG those bloody christians were correct all the time now how can I let them know I care about them more now?" send us a 'god message' real quick
 
God destroys all life in a flood (Genesis 6:17). God causes brimstone and fire to rain down on Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-25). God commands the destruction of the city of Jericho (Joshua 6:21). God commands the destruction of the people of Amalek - including men, women, child, infant and animals (1 Samuel 15:3).

That didn't work & I don't think this did.

Death of a man identified as Jesus to atone for the sins of mankind. Not a pleasant thought to visualize a human being nailed to a cross.

As far as I can tell nothing horrific has happened to mankind for the last 2000 plus years to equal what took place as described in the bible.

Why did God stop?
 
Knight said:
God destroys all life in a flood (Genesis 6:17). God causes brimstone and fire to rain down on Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-25). God commands the destruction of the city of Jericho (Joshua 6:21). God commands the destruction of the people of Amalek - including men, women, child, infant and animals (1 Samuel 15:3).

That didn't work & I don't think this did.

Death of a man identified as Jesus to atone for the sins of mankind. Not a pleasant thought to visualize a human being nailed to a cross.

As far as I can tell nothing horrific has happened to mankind for the last 2000 plus years to equal what took place as described in the bible.

Why did God stop?
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Donald Trump?
 
January said:
IME those who use that term to describe themselves or their sect come under the types I described in my previous post and yes there is something wrong with them.
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There's nothing wrong with them but they are definitely different...in a good way. They are filled with the Holy Spirit and some, when it first happens to them, they are on fire for the Lord. You can't blame them really because they have been completely cleansed inside and then filled with “The fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control” (Galatians 5:22-23, NLT).Jul 30, 2021
 

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