What is it to be a man, (and worth your salt as it were)?

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
South of Manchester, UK
This question in the thread title has been brought to my mind because I'm trying to draft a tribute to the man who acted as the best man at my wedding forty five years ago, and his funeral takes place in about a week.

He would qualify as a man in my estimation on many grounds, stretching from his physical strength as a young man, taking on a responsible job in his family's haulage business aged just twenty one and making a big success of it, and then all the other businesses and enterprises he engaged in, (along with raising a family of four hard working children like himself).

More than all that though as a mate he managed to completely forgive my shunning him for about thirty years, (over something I'd completely misunderstood and not given him the chance to explain), and then he did about ten times more for me than I'd ever done for him, so those are the kind of friends we all need sometimes perhaps!

I could criticise him too, but now is obviously not the time, and I'm very glad to say how positively I for one will remember him, and I expect many others from the haulage industry and others who knew him well, and knew him as a man with some thing about him, not about to be taken for a fool, or taken advantage of by anyone in a hurry, (and he brought those same strengths to your aid when needed).

Lastly his sense of humour was tremendous, though he could be un-merciless when teasing you about something like your weight or whatever it might be.

So, what is a man would you say?
 

grahamg said:
I'm trying to draft a tribute to the man
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There is something to be said about a tribute to one who is no longer.

It has been said, 'too bad you didn't tell him when he was alive'

However, when a tribute is given to the living, it can become a bit of a stumbling block to the recipient.
It can be such an ego boost, one can trip over it

But, when given after they're gone, it is something paid forward
Giving notice to those who come afterward
Maybe a legacy
It gives those who come after a goal, and an aim

....in an aimless society

You do well, @grahamg
 
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grahamg said:
This question in the thread title has been brought to my mind because I'm trying to draft a tribute to the man who acted as the best man at my wedding forty five years ago, and his funeral takes place in about a week.

He would qualify as a man in my estimation on many grounds, stretching from his physical strength as a young man, taking on a responsible job in his family's haulage business aged just twenty one and making a big success of it, and then all the other businesses and enterprises he engaged in, (along with raising a family of four hard working children like himself).

More than all that though as a mate he managed to completely forgive my shunning him for about thirty years, (over something I'd completely misunderstood and not given him the chance to explain), and then he did about ten times more for me than I'd ever done for him, so those are the kind of friends we all need sometimes perhaps!

I could criticise him too, but now is obviously not the time, and I'm very glad to say how positively I for one will remember him, and I expect many others from the haulage industry and others who knew him well, and knew him as a man with some thing about him, not about to be taken for a fool, or taken advantage of by anyone in a hurry, (and he brought those same strengths to your aid when needed).

Lastly his sense of humour was tremendous, though he could be un-merciless when teasing you about something like your weight or whatever it might be.

So, what is a man would you say?
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I just look in the mirror.
 
Thank you for all the positive comments above, and just to add something to what I said earlier I've been to the funeral of another mate today, one I didn't know so well but who has lived an exceptional life, supported by a wonderful family and friends.

A very different guy than my mate described in the OP, but with at least these two similarities, never letting their friends down, (or doing their best not to), and all the humour they carried with them, and fun times engaged in whilst achieving a great deal in their careers.

There were no less than nine tributes paid at the funeral today, plus the ministers very good address, and a mixture of popular music and hymns making it probably the best funeral I've ever witnessed. His wife's tribute would be very hard to beat, and his two daughters were not far behind.

When hearing about this man's health problems at the end of his life, and how well he coped with wonderful medical assistance, (he'd been a highly accomplished doctor himself too), all your own issues do seem to be put into proportion dont they.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I don't think his gender matters. The character traits are the same for both men, and women. Loyalty, compassion, trustworthiness, steadfastness.
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At the funeral today it was said the man didn't engage in arguments very much, and thought them unnecessary when he could find other ways to get his point across.

Some men though, like my friend described in the OP was the kind who would walk towards danger sometimes, and that is maybe as good a description of bravery as you'd find, (maybe confidence in your physical presence helps, plus maybe an inclination to take risks in life). It is said there are differences between men and women in terms of risk taking, but whether there is or not arguing abut it wont make me any better a man I've been shown today!
 
I think this poem may be worth mentioning to my friend's son, in case he thinks it worth someone reading out:

"If" by Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
 
mrstime said:
It is very simple, a man is a man when he doesn't have to prove he is a man.
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Yes, you are right.

However though I'm sure those with that level of belief in themselves dont think about having to prove it, but do you think some men have had to learn and push themselves to live up to whatever they believe makes a man, and maybe do sometimes do things to try to prove they're tough enough or whatever it might be?
 
"You either define the moment, or the moment defines you."

A man always defines the moment.
 
Grahamg wrote (quoting Rudyard Kipling's poem "IF":
"If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,"
Warrigal said:
I'm familiar with the poem Graham, but I don't understand the two lines above.
Can you give some context?
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I'd guess the poet was simply using a bit of licence and suggesting you'd better not waste time if you wish to be a man(?).
 
grahamg said:
Grahamg wrote (quoting Rudyard Kipling's poem "IF":
"If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,"

I'd guess the poet was simply using a bit of licence and suggesting you'd better not waste time if you wish to be a man(?).
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I think you are on the money. I asked the interwebs and this is what appeared -

When THE POET RUDYARD KIPLING says , "If you can fill the unforgiving minute/With sixty seconds' worth of distance run," he is saying or advising us that with every minute that we are given, you should make the absolute most of it that you can instead of wasting it for time never comes back. once it is gone, it is gone forever. "Unforgiving minute" means that every single minute has sixty seconds long and no more, and no less. So when that minute is up, it is gone, forever. We can't call it back to spend that time differently. A minute is not merciful; it doesn't slow itself down to give us more time. It is always constant, always running. So, THE POET RUDYARD KIPLING'S advice is to fill every minute "with sixty seconds' worth of distance run," or to get as much good, effort, energy and distance out of every minute that you are given.
Hope this helps!!!
THANKS!!
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Here is another interpretation. I like this one better.

A person has one life to live. In the poem, "the unforgiving minute" is a metaphor for the amount of time people have to live. That minute, the total time people have to live, is unforgiving because time doesn't give anyone a second chance. Once a second (60 seconds in a minute) passes, it is gone forever.
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grahamg said:
At the funeral today it was said the man didn't engage in arguments very much, and thought them unnecessary when he could find other ways to get his point across.
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High praise indeed! Your friend sounds like a good man, sorry your lost him.

Always wondered what my salt was worth...

This is one of my favorite Soprano's scenes, hopefully not a vision of my own funeral:
 
grahamg said:
Yes, you are right.

However though I'm sure those with that level of belief in themselves dont think about having to prove it, but do you think some men have had to learn and push themselves to live up to whatever they believe makes a man, and maybe do sometimes do things to try to prove they're tough enough or whatever it might be?
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That is what I see as trying to prove they are a man. A real man doesn't have to prove he is a man. A real man doesn't need bluster!
 
I don't like the terms "real man" or "real woman".
I am a woman, and as real as you get, and if someone doesn't think that I am a "real woman" for any reason under the sun, then I don't give a rats.

The same applies to men. If all men were the same; macho creatures that fitted some stereotype, we would have few poets, musicians, or artists. Society would be like a garden that only grew cacti when we could be living in a meadow full of many different flowers in many different shades and forms.

Bless them all, I say, the long and the short and the tall. The hard men and the philosophers, the builders and the carers. They are all men and who is to say that they are not?
 
Warrigal said:
I don't like the terms "real man" or "real woman".
I am a woman, and as real as you get, and if someone doesn't think that I am a "real woman" for any reason under the sun, then I don't give a rats.
The same applies to men. If all men were the same; macho creatures that fitted some stereotype, we would have few poets, musicians, or artists. Society would be like a garden that only grew cacti when we could be living in a meadow full of many different flowers in many different shades and forms.
Bless them all, I say, the long and the short and the tall. The hard men and the philosophers, the builders and the carers. They are all men and who is to say that they are not?
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Whilst I agree generally, we should acknowledge the "real men" are probably recognised by women more often as being attractive shouldn't we, (though as you indicate I think even the toughest have their limits, or things they just cant handle well).
 
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