Why do we believe in God

A material death is different than a physical death. death opens the way to spiritual consciousness and a connected awareness of everything. My former self died to open a consciousness I did not have before. This occurred in 2005 and immediately thereafter I was of aware of an unexplainable connectedness to god and all that is.

If you read my previous posts you know of my discussions regarding Christianity, the Bible and Jesus in disbelief. It should be noted just because Christianity etc did not work for me does mean this particular way to spiritually is any more or less affective than the road less traveled as was my choice spiritual enlightenment.

There is a heightened sense of understanding beyond the norm that awaits us if we choose to let go of the materialistic me and be reborn to the consciousness of all.
 

Pepper said:
Describe Pascal's Wager, please @JustDave. Thank you.
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As Pascal states, “Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.”

5 Objections to Pascal’s Wager​

Is It Rational to Believe in God? 5 Objections to Pascal’s Wager

The objections above are from philosophical objections from early philosophers arguing against another's claim, as they usually did/do. They are more thorough and distinguished than I. For me, this is not just a wager. It presupposes the existence of god, and then justifies the assumed supposition. I call it circular reasoning, which would not satisfy my philosophy professor. On tests, he didn't care what I thought. He wanted me to distill the thoughts of the big names in the game.

Now if it was just a wager, I would say yeah, OK. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Although the big guns say there is more involved in that, and that it is more than a simple wager with a guy that's going to put money on the table. The problem there, as described in the link, is that one is wagering there is a god, and of course believers presuppose that, but how about if an atheist enters the game and wagers that there is no god. If it turns out that he's right, he wins the pot. No matter who is right, a problem for me would be that there is no evidence to prove the matter one way or the other. And as an agnostic I don't believe there ever will be.

OK now theists can argue, "Yeah, but suppose there is?" Then it becomes irrelevant. It's wagering on an opinion with no qualified expert to judge.

But the big names in the game have come up for other arguments against the wager. I stopped arguing when I decided it was a silly thing to argue.
 
JustDave said:
As Pascal states, “Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.”

5 Objections to Pascal’s Wager​

Is It Rational to Believe in God? 5 Objections to Pascal’s Wager

The objections above are from philosophical objections from early philosophers arguing against another's claim, as they usually did/do. They are more thorough and distinguished than I. For me, this is not just a wager. It presupposes the existence of god, and then justifies the assumed supposition. I call it circular reasoning, which would not satisfy my philosophy professor. On tests, he didn't care what I thought. He wanted me to distill the thoughts of the big names in the game.

Now if it was just a wager, I would say yeah, OK. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Although the big guns say there is more involved in that, and that it is more than a simple wager with a guy that's going to put money on the table. The problem there, as described in the link, is that one is wagering there is a god, and of course believers presuppose that, but how about if an atheist enters the game and wagers that there is no god. If it turns out that he's right, he wins the pot. No matter who is right, a problem for me would be that there is no evidence to prove the matter one way or the other. And as an agnostic I don't believe there ever will be.

OK now theists can argue, "Yeah, but suppose there is?" Then it becomes irrelevant. It's wagering on an opinion with no qualified expert to judge.

But the big names in the game have come up for other arguments against the wager. I stopped arguing when I decided it was a silly thing to argue.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting an informed explanation of Pascal's wager. You described yourself as agnostic -defined by Merriam-Webster as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable". I expect you have given this matter a great deal of thought and have valid reasons for your conclusion. In fact, I can agree that such a view is "unknown and probably unknowable."

Just to be clear, I believe in God, even though it is a matter of faith with me, rather than what is known or unknowable. If my belief is right, gaining heaven or escaping punishment will be the potential consequences of my belief; not the motivation for having it.
 

Mr. Ed said:
Why do we believe in god, question is directed to the collective we as individuals. Just messing with you, but why do you believe in god? I can tell you why I believe in god, because is proven to be real in my life and I do not want to go back to the way it was when I did not understand god in my life.
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I agree with you. Life is lonely but it is absolutely empty when you don't have God to call out to.
Now, for those of you who will, without doubt, reply with firm conviction that those who choose to be believe in a God need to, but in order to go on. That they have created an imaginary friend. That they are delusional, but belief helps them coupe.

To you, the following:
Open a bible and read. Doesn't matter where, just read. Ponder what you have read and try to answer the questions that pop up in your own mind.
Don't sluff it off.
Answer the questions you have posed from your reading. Can't answer and don't care, quite frankly, okay!
For those who aren't content with that decision, keep looking, pray to God, ask for answers............................ The Lord will answer you, IE, read this, go there. Where is this coming from???? Follow your heart. read.
At some point it becomes clear that you are not delusional, that you are not making this up. That someone is talking to you.
 
I don't read the Bible, perhaps because I don't understand it or perhaps I have no use for it. At any rate, I am where I am today without the Bible, although that statement is not completely true. I understand the to an extent, perhaps not all of it. I attended Bible for 3 years to have a better understanding of the Bible and during those 3 years I learned the Bible was not for me in the same way Christianity is not for me.

My point is there is not a single way of knowing god. People seek god for knowledge, this was the original intent for following the teachings of Jesus. Overtime seeking knowledge of god was lost and replaced by religious tasks, rituals and duties, which in my opinion are nothing more than distractions from truly knowing god.

Perhaps people find god through religion, I don't know and who am I to say. All I know there are many methods outside of religion that god can be found. Meditation, psychedelics, prayer, studies, etc. I searched for god all my life until I died a material death and seemingly reborn spiritually awakened from my former self.
 
Vida May said:
Many have died, been resurrected, and told others about their death experience. Here is a google page with many accounts of that.
life after death experiences - Google Search
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Yes, I am well aware of that, I meant those who have died, not those who were resurrected. I know a man who was, but was told it was not his time yet and had to return to his life, so he went no further, never saw "God", but claimed to have seen loved ones who has passed before him. So that still doesn't solve the riddle. Only the dead know the truth, or the lie, and was everyone's experience the same, were they really "dead" or in a dream state? Now do you comprehend my meaning?
 
MACKTEXAS said:
Thank you for making a good point and sharing your valuable thoughts. Forgive me if you will, but I have to add that it would bother me to think the only reason I believe is for insurance protection, "just in case."
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Doesn't bother me at all. It is said all you have to do is believe, so, I do. Hey, we have to have insurance, just in case, right, so, in believing, I do, just in case. I'm sorry I cannot forgive you, but God will, only if you believe..... LOL!
 
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Another point...why do criminals who committed despicable crimes and are sentenced to death, read bibles in prison, then as they are about to be executed, claim they believe in God, and He has forgiven them right before they die? I don't believe living a long life of crime and committing murder, then asking for forgiveness at the last moment, will earn them a key to the Golden Gates. But for common people, what harm is it to believe? It's better to believe, than not to. After all...it's free! So, that's why I think most people choose to believe...just in case they might die tomorrow.
 
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Rindee said:
Doesn't bother me at all. It is said all you have to do is believe, so, I do. Hey, we have to have insurance, just in case, right, so, in believing, I do, just in case. I'm sorry I cannot forgive you, but God will, only if you believe..... LOL!
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Colossians 3:12-13: “As the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.”
 
Mr. Ed said:
A material death is different than a physical death. death opens the way to spiritual consciousness and a connected awareness of everything. My former self died to open a consciousness I did not have before. This occurred in 2005 and immediately thereafter I was of aware of an unexplainable connectedness to god and all that is.

If you read my previous posts you know of my discussions regarding Christianity, the Bible and Jesus in disbelief. It should be noted just because Christianity etc did not work for me does mean this particular way to spiritually is any more or less affective than the road less traveled as was my choice spiritual enlightenment.

There is a heightened sense of understanding beyond the norm that awaits us if we choose to let go of the materialistic me and be reborn to the consciousness of all.
Click to expand...
Explain why it "did not work" for you. What were you expecting from it?
 
MACKTEXAS said:
Colossians 3:12-13: “As the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.”
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I was being facetious lol! The bible is a book for organized religion, the real test is outside of that, outside of the church. If you go around quoting scriptures for everything that is said, you will be quoting non-stop, and lose a lot of friends in the process lol! Now, where I am concerned, forgiveness has to be earned, I don't merely do it because that's what the bible says to do. I don't live by that book. I was born with free will, powers of deliberation, insight, intuition, freedom of speech and thought etc., so I decide who to forgive and who not to.
 
MACKTEXAS said:
Yes, I noticed that. :)
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Had you noticed that, as you stated, then you would not have quoted Colossians 3:12-13 lol! The bible is a book for the afterlife and attempting to live by it word for word here on earth, will only lead to strife. My life is not an audition for the afterlife, and as long as I breathe, I will continue to make the most out of my life, here on earth! All else, and everyone else....are a distant 2nd.
 
Mitch86 said:
I am sure there is no God and no Jesus Christ. We simply live and then CEASE to exist.
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You might find Pascal's wager an interesting prognosis:
Pascal's wager is a philosophical argument advanced by Blaise Pascal, seventeenth century French mathematician, philosopher, physicist, and theologian. His argument posits that individuals essentially engage in a life defining gamble regarding the belief in the existence of God.
Pascal contends that a rational person should adopt a lifestyle consistent with the existence of God and actively strive to believe in God. The reasoning behind this stance lies in the potential outcomes: if God does not exist, the individual incurs only finite losses, potentially sacrificing certain pleasures and luxuries. However, if God does indeed exist, they stand to gain immeasurably, as represented for example by an eternity in Heaven, while simultaneously avoiding boundless losses associated with an eternity in Hell.
 
Rindee said:
Had you noticed that, as you stated, then you would not have quoted Colossians 3:12-13 lol! The bible is a book for the afterlife and attempting to live by it word for word here on earth, will only lead to strife. My life is not an audition for the afterlife, and as long as I breathe, I will continue to make the most out of my life, here on earth! All else, and everyone else....are a distant 2nd.
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If you do not live by what the Bible says, how do you know you are saved?
 
Topic was "why do we believe in God"
Belief based on experience.................wishful thinking..............................upbringing and what we were told........................???????
God is there in your life or he is not.
You may not know him yet, but he keeps on bugging you, as though you need pay attention or listen up. In other words he knows you.
You may be searching for answers, yet find none. Reach out thru prayer, (you either hear me God or you not!), then just wait. He may answer you, he may not.
Those who earnestly seek him will find him. Those who look for, (convince me) reactions will find nothing.
I don't know what to add. I'm not going to quote bible verses that you don't believe anyway. Not going to try and convince you.
You either are seeking the truth or you are just seeking answers with no idea where to go.
 
Rindee said:
Explain why it "did not work" for you. What were you expecting from it?
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Don't know why really, perhaps I grew up in the church as my father was a Southern Baptist preacher who ignored his family in exchanged for his good image in the community. Not once did he share his faith at home with his family. I tried to take the traditional path to salvation but it wasn't what I was looking for.

I strived for enlightenment and wisdom, the church did not offer me that and psychedelics did. I temporarily lost my mind to mental illness and set on the sidelines for 30 years. Overdosed and psychosis in 2005 died a material death at that time and gained spiritual consciousness.
 
rbtvgo said:
Topic was "why do we believe in God"
Belief based on experience.................wishful thinking..............................upbringing and what we were told........................???????
God is there in your life or he is not.
You may not know him yet, but he keeps on bugging you, as though you need pay attention or listen up. In other words he knows you.
You may be searching for answers, yet find none. Reach out thru prayer, (you either hear me God or you not!), then just wait. He may answer you, he may not.
Those who earnestly seek him will find him. Those who look for, (convince me) reactions will find nothing.
I don't know what to add. I'm not going to quote bible verses that you don't believe anyway. Not going to try and convince you.
You either are seeking the truth or you are just seeking answers with no idea where to go
Mr. Ed said:
A material death is different than a physical death. death opens the way to spiritual consciousness and a connected awareness of everything. My former self died to open a consciousness I did not have before. This occurred in 2005 and immediately thereafter I was of aware of an unexplainable connectedness to god and all that is.

If you read my previous posts you know of my discussions regarding Christianity, the Bible and Jesus in disbelief. It should be noted just because Christianity etc did not work for me does mean this particular way to spiritually is any more or less affective than the road less traveled as was my choice spiritual enlightenment.

There is a heightened sense of understanding beyond the norm that awaits us if we choose to let go of the materialistic me and be reborn to the consciousness of
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

MACKTEXAS said:
Thanks for posting an informed explanation of Pascal's wager. You described yourself as agnostic -defined by Merriam-Webster as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality, such as God, is unknown and probably unknowable". I expect you have given this matter a great deal of thought and have valid reasons for your conclusion. In fact, I can agree that such a view is "unknown and probably unknowable."

Just to be clear, I believe in God, even though it is a matter of faith with me, rather than what is known or unknowable. If my belief is right, gaining heaven or escaping punishment will be the potential consequences of my belief; not the motivation for having it.
Click to expand...
The belief is based upon faith for everyone who believes......since there is no absolute proof of a God, what else could it be, but faith? Now, this leads to the motivation to believe, which is the hope of being accepted into Heaven, thus avoiding a trip to the Fiery Furnace, which in turn, even though you tried to define it differently, is still your motivation. Ultimately, fear and uncertainty are the true motivators for this, and faith is the insurance policy.
 
Mr. Ed said:
Don't know why really, perhaps I grew up in the church as my father was a Southern Baptist preacher who ignored his family in exchanged for his good image in the community. Not once did he share his faith at home with his family. I tried to take the traditional path to salvation but it wasn't what I was looking for.

I strived for enlightenment and wisdom, the church did not offer me that and psychedelics did. I temporarily lost my mind to mental illness and set on the sidelines for 30 years. Overdosed and psychosis in 2005 died a material death at that time and gained spiritual consciousness.
Click to expand...
Thank you for explaining, and best wishes!
 
Rindee said:
Had you noticed that, as you stated, then you would not have quoted Colossians 3:12-13 lol! The bible is a book for the afterlife and attempting to live by it word for word here on earth, will only lead to strife. My life is not an audition for the afterlife, and as long as I breathe, I will continue to make the most out of my life, here on earth! All else, and everyone else....are a distant 2nd.
Click to expand...
If you do not live by what the Bible says, how do you know you are saved?
 
I can only answer this question by saying why I believe in God. I believe because He has been there many many times in my life when I needed him. I talk to Him every morning before I start my day. I can't imagine how I would get through a day without Him. If you do not believe that is your choice.
 

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