Why is estrangement always the parents fault?" - (not my words)

grahamg

grahamg

Old codger
Location
South of Manchester, UK
A professional in psychotherapy has on her website a discussion on the thread title topic, taken from a message received someone who contacted her.

Here is their questions to the psychotherapist, and the website link where this all comes from, plus a further question/story and the experts response:
https://tinagilbertson.com/estrangement-parents-fault/

Quote:
“I have the same question as I have with all other articles I read: why is it that the parents have to acknowledge and profess blame for everything? Why do they have to accept as true whatever the child says or believes, and has to learn the error of their ways? Yet, the child does not have to undergo any introspection into the reality of their beliefs?

“Maybe that’s why they are the way they are – narcissistic spoiled brats who think they are always right and refuse to accept that maybe their view of their parent is not reality. Why isn’t the parent’s view of the situation reality? Isn’t it possible that there is some truth to both parties’ views, and that to have a true healthy relationship they both need to acknowledge that and say ‘I’m sorry’ and forgive? Maybe the child needs to accept that whatever faults a parent might have, there is such a thing as FORGIVENESS?”

Expert response:
"Whose view of reality is the correct one (and I’m not convinced there is such a thing as a correct view, let alone “reality,” when any two people get together) is irrelevant when you’ve been rejected.

If someone – anyone – cuts you out of their lives, you lose the luxury of demanding fairness."

Break

Second message:
"I read your articles and my heart remains broken. My 27 year old son will have no contact with me for the past year since his graduation from university and then two years prior to that. No arguments, no fights, just silence. No way to contact him. I have apologized for whatever I have done but no response. Just silence. I have started counselling to try to deal with my pain of rejection and to learn how to keep my heart open but move on with my life. It is so hard. I think about him every day. Every night. I love him very much and I want to apologize for whatever I have done to so deeply hurt him. But how? No contact. I try to stay hopeful, but I just don’t know what to do."

Expert response:
  • I am so very sorry for your pain. You may or may not have anything to apologize for; sometimes young people create distance from parents in order to make their passage into adulthood easier (see my posts on Differentiation).
    If you have apologized well (see How to Apologize for tips) for anything you feel the need to apologize for, he may just need more time. The hard part you’ve done all you can, and the only thing left to do is grieve and take stock of where you are.
    No article will mend a broken heart. Only time, understanding and compassion can do that.
    I wish you peace. Thanks so much for sharing your comment.
 

peramangkelder said:
There is but my children do not want to listen so over the years I do not try any more
My ex-husband was abusive and I figured I had given enough of my life to him after 37 years
Once my 2 kids had left home I decided I did not want to live that way any more so I divorced him
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I believe you, and I can recommend a book written by Penny Cross called "Lost children" detailing the way she lost contact with all four of her children following a difficult separation and divorce, and went on to help others in a similar situation.
 
jujube said:
Usually there are three sides: my side, your side, and what actually happened.
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Yes but whose version of ‘what actually happened ?’ are you going to accept? Every person has their own perception and no two perceptions are exactly the same. Nobody is completely unbiased.
 
peramangkelder said:
There is but my children do not want to listen so over the years I do not try any more
My ex-husband was abusive and I figured I had given enough of my life to him after 37 years
Once my 2 kids had left home I decided I did not want to live that way any more so I divorced him
Click to expand...
He was probably abusive to you and your kids. When the kids grew up, they may have resented you for your choice of him & also your choice to stay with him.
I had similar thoughts; my mother was abusive & I had some resentment for my father for allowing her to abuse us. She'd threaten to leave him & that was enough to let her do whatever she wanted. Consequently, we had little respect for our father. A real father doesn't allow anyone to abuse his kids. And that includes the woman he's sleeping with.
 
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win231 said:
He was probably abusive to you and your kids. When the kids grew up, they may have resented you for your choice of him & also your choice to stay with him.
I had similar thoughts; my mother was abusive & I had some resentment for my father for allowing her to abuse us. She'd threaten to leave him & that was enough to let her do whatever she wanted. Consequently, we had little respect for our father. A real father doesn't allow anyone to abuse his kids.
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We've learnt on another thread, (and some of us in their own lives), that the words "real father" can mean whoever anyone wishes to apply it to.

Putting that to one side, w(hilst just quickly adding how easy it is to condemn a parent in some peoples eyes, we haven't for example seen any evidence the husband of thirty seven years, to our forum friend, abused his children at all have we?), it is the expert featured in the OP, it is her job to put forward the notion parents can seek advice and thereby overcome problems. This can happen, or there would be no need for counselling, but it can't provide an automatic solution, or all counsellors/teachers and the like would enjoy perfect relationships with their children.

However, I have one more difficulty with the OP expert, and I'll try to explain it.

My difficulty with the OP view, is the idea close interpersonal relationships each of us seek in general, and particularly concerning our own children, those close relationships are "unique" if they are anything. Training parents has this inherent flaw, if you follow a "formula" for a successful relationship with your child, you deny them, and yourself, as an inevitable consequence, a "unique" loving relationship. Its not ever going to be unique, if you start to think you've learned your parenting skills, or interpersonal skills, from a book, or a counsellor. :unsure:.
 
win231 said:
He was probably abusive to you and your kids. When the kids grew up, they may have resented you for your choice of him & also your choice to stay with him.
I had similar thoughts; my mother was abusive & I had some resentment for my father for allowing her to abuse us. She'd threaten to leave him & that was enough to let her do whatever she wanted. Consequently, we had little respect for our father. A real father doesn't allow anyone to abuse his kids. And that includes the woman he's sleeping with.
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You are right in this. Although my mother was my main abuser, I resented her even more for not stopping my father when he beat me. I remember one really severe beating from him where he closed the bedroom door and she stood outside listening. As a child, I hated her for not at least opening the door and telling him to stop.
 
Aneeda72 said:
You are right in this. Although my mother was my main abuser, I resented her even more for not stopping my father when he beat me. I remember one really severe beating from him where he closed the bedroom door and she stood outside listening. As a child, I hated her for not at least opening the door and telling him to stop.
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Frequently, when the man is the main abuser, the woman doesn't intervene because she doesn't want him to leave her due to insecurity, low self esteem or financial reasons, especially if he's the main source of income. The wife is willing to sacrifice her children's well being rather than risk losing her "man."
When the woman is the abuser, she'll threaten to leave the man if he intervenes, & if he has low self esteem (like my father did), he won't risk losing her because he thinks no one else would want him. He'd rather sacrifice his children's well being than risk losing his woman.
 
Lizzie00 said:
Yeah.
Two different perceptions are two different takes on reality.
And we each think what we think.
Oh, well.
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There are occasionally fathers out there, not prepared to accept the argument "there are two different perspectives on reality".

During my fathers rights campaigning days, a group of us went to Somerton, in Devon, UK, (or was it Somerset?, it matters not!). Anyway, after we'd done our protest or picket, we decided to go to the local pub, to take advantage of the local attraction, or a amenities.

When asked by the landlord what we'd been doing, he chose to explain his situation. I think it safe to say the man did bear a grudge, or refuse to be had for a fool, which are two sides of the same coin aren't they(?). He said he'd refused to have anything to do with any of his four children, after they'd sided with their mother, against him, and the courts had fleeced him. When he complained to the judge he'd been unfairly treated, the judge told him, "You're a capable man, you'll get back on your feet" as justification, (hence he was descriminated against for being hardworking and enterprising).

Two of his sons decided to try to get in touch years later, but he wouldn't tolerate any of them, or give in.

A friend of mine said he wouldn't have tolerated the way I was treated during gmy divorce, years of manipulation going on behind the scenes, those in positions of power chose to ignore etc., but as I've said, we're all different, and being "unique, or believing you're unique as a parent", isnt something you should give up lightly. Others take a more be!ligerant view, and counsellors can look elsewhere for someone to pay them fo their advice. o_O.
 
grahamg said:
Two of his sons decided to try to get in touch years later, but he wouldn't tolerate any of them, or give in.
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No fool like an old fool and a bitter one at that. Sad to hear of someone so unforgiving. Wouldn't be surprised to learn he's a lonely old goat.

"or give in." Gee, a real man, hey? Yup. Sad.
 
win231 said:
Frequently, when the man is the main abuser, the woman doesn't intervene because she doesn't want him to leave her due to insecurity, low self esteem or financial reasons, especially if he's the main source of income. The wife is willing to sacrifice her children's well being rather than risk losing her "man."
When the woman is the abuser, she'll threaten to leave the man if he intervenes, & if he has low self esteem (like my father did), he won't risk losing her because he thinks no one else would want him. He'd rather sacrifice his children's well being than risk losing his woman.
Click to expand...
It's one of the many subjects I've thought of in recent years for which I'll never know because there's no one left to ask.. but I've wondered if the reason- or at least a reason- that my father never left 'her' was possibly because of the laws of the times: it was virtually impossible for a father to gain custody of the kids, no matter how unfit the mother was. In other words, if he left 'her,' it would have amounted to leaving 'us,' too.
 
Judycat said:
Ah let the kids go and get on with your life.
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The problem is, is most people simply cannot let it go. I know I couldn‘t/can’t, as far as my parents are concerned. But I am very close with my children. I could never let my children go.
 
If you are close that's ok but if your kids continue to estrange themselves let them go. If they come around again great. If they don't, get on with your life and quit beating yourself up.
 

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