Wind power and birds

Judi.D said:
Thank you Phil and others. I appreciate the intellectual stimulation. It helps me see both sides of many things and makes me think. Though that is a little difficult this morning with only one cup of coffee.
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Have another cup Judi and consider this too:
[h=2]Are global wind power resource estimates overstated?[/h]http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/1/015021/
 

The bottom line is if I feel strongly enough about something I can find numerous links on the Internet to support my belief. Oil is finite, and we have to develop renewable sources of energy. There is always a trade off to everything. All we can truly hope for is to minimize negative effects as much as possible.
 

Agree Judi.D. Oil and coal are both finite resources but - given the will - there is plenty to provide time to sensibly develop alternative energies without rushing headlong into such shockingly inefficient sources such as wind and solar. Both have to potential to cause the production of MORE carbon dioxide than gas or coal-fired power generation alone. Geothermal and tide appear to offer much more promise for base load generation.
 
I suppose wind farms are going to be with us and more of them will be installed. I never knew how profitable these wind towers were or are or how much electricity they generated, and still don't, but one of the countries' oil and gas men, Boone Pickens, recently got out of the wind farm business and I believe he also got out of the water business. That tells me buying underground water and re-selling it or the profit from wind farm produced electricity is not as great or as good as other investments. Or maybe because he's getting up in years he just cleaning up his portfolio. I suppose the point I'm making, going the long way about it, is that not much has ever stood in our way, i.e. damage to the environment, birds, the animal kingdom, nor the human beast, himself, when there is a profit to be made or land to be grabbed. Certainly, a few dead birds is not going to cut it. What do you think?
 
dbeyat45 said:
Agree Judi.D. Oil and coal are both finite resources but - given the will - there is plenty to provide time to sensibly develop alternative energies without rushing headlong into such shockingly inefficient sources such as wind and solar. Both have to potential to cause the production of MORE carbon dioxide than gas or coal-fired power generation alone. Geothermal and tide appear to offer much more promise for base load generation.
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DB, I'd REALLY love to know where you're getting your research from. How in blazes does a wind turbine produce CO2?!? You're looking at second- and third-generation effects, aren't you? Like the mining of rare earth metals used in their production, or the pouring of concrete foundations for the turbines releasing CO2?

Compared to the presently-consumed resources, wind and solar are FAR superior and FAR more efficient. I'm really surprised at your views, as they don't jibe at all with the currently-held opinions of alternative energy ...
 
drifter said:
I suppose wind farms are going to be with us and more of them will be installed. I never knew how profitable these wind towers were or are or how much electricity they generated, and still don't, but one of the countries' oil and gas men, Boone Pickens, recently got out of the wind farm business and I believe he also got out of the water business. That tells me buying underground water and re-selling it or the profit from wind farm produced electricity is not as great or as good as other investments. Or maybe because he's getting up in years he just cleaning up his portfolio. I suppose the point I'm making, going the long way about it, is that not much has ever stood in our way, i.e. damage to the environment, birds, the animal kingdom, nor the human beast, himself, when there is a profit to be made or land to be grabbed. Certainly, a few dead birds is not going to cut it. What do you think?
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I'm not surprised that Pickens is getting out of the field, since he probably got an offer he couldn't refuse from the coal-and-oil boys. If there's no profit in it he isn't interested, and at this point of development solar and wind just aren't producing the massive profits that oil and coal are.

I think a few birds is a better price to pay than the one demanded of us by conventional methods.
 
Davey Jones said:
How many airlines have been grounded because they flew into a flock of birds.
Im guessing it happens every single day.
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Not the least to say how many birds are killed by flying into buildings. It's nothing to be sitting at the table to hear a bird crash into the window, on the ground floor.

 
Why aren't motorists also charged for killing wildlife with motor vehicles, aka roadkill. Also the owners of transmission lines-many birds and bats die flying into them as well. Also the owners of big shiny windows on houses, - many birds fly into them and kill themselves.
 
maxHR said:
Why aren't motorists also charged for killing wildlife with motor vehicles, aka roadkill. Also the owners of transmission lines-many birds and bats die flying into them as well. Also the owners of big shiny windows on houses, - many birds fly into them and kill themselves.
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How do you know the windows are big & shiny.:D
 
Would be curious to know how much experience anyone here has with windmill farms... here's an older one that starts a few miles from our home... In a 30 mile radius I'm sure we have well over 1,000 towers... An awesome sight.
Mostly on farmland... the only disruption in farming comes from the roads between towers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendota_Hills_Wind_Farm

Where we used to live... Martha's Vineyard... between there and Nantucket, the battle for offshore wind farms, is still being fought... 15 years later. http://www.capewind.org/index.php

RE: birds... Since most birds are territorial, after the initial installation of the towers, there is a rapid drop in the number of bird deaths.
As to the sound... you have to be pretty close, to hear the wooshing sound, and that only occurs in medium and above winds.
After the initial shock of seeing so many windmills, it becomes a non event, and actually quite pleasant.

What price progress? Replace cheap oil with fracking? Solar? Who remembers the snail darter? Some where, some time, some one will develop a rating system for quantifying environmental cost and energy. Until then, the battle of emotions and personal interests will continue.
windmills and birds
fracking and clean water
pipelines and oil spills
pesticides and crops and bees
rainforests and tree products
fishing and dying oceans

Wealth and quality of life.
 

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