Wisdom and Religion

Sure there are, and I respect them and have many friends among them.

If they want to respond to what their religion deems to be wisdom, I would be happy to hear it.
 

exwisehe said:
I'm not sure I can add anything to the discussion, and I'm still looking for some indication that I am wise, or even on the road to wisdom.

Since the original post did mention religion along with wisdom, I think it may be appropriate to bring a few points from scripture to bear upon the issue.

According to the bible, the wisest choice a human can make is to seek the foundation of wisdom and that, according to Proverbs, is “the fear of the Lord”. (Prov. 9:10)

Jesus gave us many wise precepts along the same lines. For example he illustrated this with the account of a rich man with abundant harvests, but who ran out of space to store his crops and decided to build bigger barns. He even said to himself “take life easy and eat drink and be merry.” Jesus said of him “You fool!”, and explained that if his life suddenly ended, who would get his surplus?

The lesson here is that Jesus was saying that the rich farmer had only considered himself and no one else. Further, He said that the wisest thing a person can do is store up treasures in heaven, that is, to be rich toward God. Treasures in heaven cannot rust or be stolen by thieves.

In other words, as the apostle Paul declared in Romans, ch 1, those who “neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.” He then went on to say that they claimed to be wise, but in fact were fools. Why?

Jesus gave the answer when He said that if we don’t acknowledge Him before men, then He will not acknowledge us before the angels in heaven. (Luke 12:9) The wisest man in all the bible, except for Jesus, was Solomon who exhorted us to “ Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind.” (Eccles. 12)

Just some thoughts to consider.
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Interesting quotes here. I enjoyed reading them. Thanks.
 
RadishRose said:
Well, you're just talking about a Christian religion. There are others.
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Among those of us who are Christian, few embrace a life of poverty. Personally, I consider myself a Christian, but having been poor for the first half of my life and relatively comfortable for the second, I have to say that it's much easier to live a life of charity, love, and understanding with a full belly. Looking to the Buddhist tradition, I found these interesting snippets from Anguttara Nikayas, III, 352:

The Buddha said, ‘Hunger is the greatest illness’.
Also, the Buddha said that peace of mind is impossible when one is worried about money. Therefore, ‘for householders in the world, poverty is suffering.’ He went on to describe how poverty leads to theft, lying, and murder.

Looking to a different tradition, in his Analects, Confucius said: “To be wealthy and honored in an unjust society is a disgrace," and "Exemplary persons help out the needy; they do not make the rich richer."

Perhaps what we do with our money is what defines the wise from the unwise. Or perhaps the way to wisdom differs for those who are living as monks or nuns as compared to those of us who are laypeople.
 

I don't think you need to go to church to be spiritual. I asked the creator of the universe to give me truth and also the ability to accept it. I think it will take my entire life to receive the answer to this request.
 
Sunny said:
I always wondered about that King Solomon story. It assumes that the other women (not the real mother) is a psychopath who would rather see a baby cut in half than give it up to the rightful mother?

I realize this story is probably apocryphal and not at all true, but it always seemed kind of dumb to me. If King Solomon was supposed to be so wise, how come this is the most enduring story known about him?

To answer your question, I believe that religion has nothing at all to do with wisdom. People can be wise or not, with or without it.
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:yes:
 
adviceseeker said:
I don't think you need to go to church to be spiritual. I asked the creator of the universe to give me truth and also the ability to accept it. I think it will take my entire life to receive the answer to this request.
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The purpose of going to a Christian church is not about "needing to go to church to be spiritual"..."Faith comes from hearing, and hearing from the Word of God" - Romans 10:17. Hearing can be via TV, radio, missionaries, and reading the Bible and praying for clarity and asking God for discernment of the truth.

Church doesn't even need a roof. The purpose of a gathering of like-minded believers seeking truth (and also unbelievers who want truthful answers) is about fellowship with those gathered, seeking and praising God, prayerful conversation with God, studying his word, and fellowship with our God who created the Universe.

Since the truth you're waiting for is found in God's word (aka Bible) which is shared and studied in Church (or gathering) then if a church is not using the Bible and relying on it's scripture verses, then it's going to be a lot harder for them to find God's truth and ability to accept, because that's where our answers are...in God's Word and through prayer and songs of praise.

Church is also about enjoying fellowship with other Christians, lifting them up, serving God, and about reaching outside of ourselves to serve others inside and outside the church.
 
You heard something I didn't say. You heard, "Don't go to church." What I said was, you can be spiritual without it. Since there is so much fighting over religion, I think it wise to ask the Creator to fill you with his truth and then also ask him to make you willing to accept his truth alone. If we all asked our Creator for that, we'd all be on the same page. I'm glad to hear there's someone out there who believes in God because I was just feeling horrible at all the "No God" responses. Thanks so much for replying to my comment. May God supply you with his truth alone and give you a heart willing to accept his truth alone. Peace Sister.
 
KingsX said:
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Proverbs 9:10
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WHY does one need to be in fear in order to seek knowledge?
Why does one even need to be ‘afraid’ of their creator and WHY would our creator want us to be?:shrug:

Isn’t that ‘man’s’ interpretation of what we think our creator wants from us and how did we ,as a species , come to that conclusion?
 
Why should we fear our creator? Do you have children? Just as children need to fear their parents sometimes, so we, the children of our maker must fear him. A whole lot of evil that humans inflict on each other would decrease greatly if we had a healthy dose of fear instilled in us towards our creator.
 
KingsX said:


The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Proverbs 9:10
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Keesha said:
WHY does one need to be in fear in order to seek knowledge?
Why does one even need to be ‘afraid’ of their creator and WHY would our creator want us to be?:shrug:
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The divine irony is... God's answer to such a question might be a fearful object lesson.

.
 
Keesha said:
WHY does one need to be in fear in order to seek knowledge?
Why does one even need to be ‘afraid’ of their creator and WHY would our creator want us to be?:shrug:

Isn’t that ‘man’s’ interpretation of what we think our creator wants from us and how did we ,as a species , come to that conclusion?
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There are numerous scripture verses that say "fear the Lord". If you put them all in context with each other, then it simply means this...

Fearing the Lord means to humble ourselves, let go of how we see our own self-righteousness, and turn from evil. We are to respect, believe, and trust God in all things. This is the beginning of Wisdom. Fear of God, is this context is, Respect for God.

How is "fear of the Lord" the "path to Wisdom?... https://www.gotquestions.org/fear-Lord-beginning-wisdom.html

Adviceseeker in post #37 is saying the same thing I just said but in a different way.
 
I think this is the clearest explanation what the "fear of our Creator" means:

"Without the fear of the Lord, we make final decisions based on our faulty human understanding (Proverbs 3:5–6). When we incorporate the fear of the Lord into every moment of our lives, we make decisions based upon His approval. We live with the knowledge that the Creator of the universe is intimately involved in our every move. He sees, knows, and evaluates all our choices, and we will answer to Him (Psalm 139:1–4).

Our respect for God’s majesty causes us to honor Him (Psalm 29:2). Our gratitude for His mercy causes us to serve Him well (Psalm 2:11; 107:15). And the understanding that our God of love is also a God of wrath inspires enough fear to help us stay away from evil (Romans 1:18; Proverbs 8:13). Sin is foolish; righteousness is wise. When we live righteously, we are on the path to wisdom, and everyone in our lives benefits (Proverbs 13:20; 19:8)." ... https://www.gotquestions.org/fear-Lord-beginning-wisdom.html
 
Fear and love are incompatible with each other. There is no fear in love for perfect love casteth out fear. Fear has to do with punishment and it tends to be banished by love. In all the best worship, fear is totally absent.


It’s a basic psychological fact that love is inhibited and distorted by fear. If God is perfect love and loves us just how we are and we are made in his reflection then why does ‘religion in general’ wish to instil fear? To me, it seems like the main purpose fear is used is to manipulate and gain some type of control.


Is it possible that religion was created by man in order to manipulate and control society?

No I don’t have children but I have parents that instilled a LOT of fear in me and I did not find it helpful in developing my sense of self in the world.

Note: I’m not looking for a vicious religious debate here; I’m just looking for a logical explanation and without insulting anyone, this explanation ^^^^ doesn’t seem logical.
 
I believe that "fear" in the Bible simply means respect and not to shake in your boots just thinking about God and what horrible things She's going do to you. :)
 
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Posters previously mentioned King Solomon.

2 Chronicles 1 and 1 Kings 3 both relate how God offered Solomon anything he wanted. But Solomon only asked for the wisdom and knowledge to properly govern God's people. God was impressed that Solomon did not ask for the things heathen kings desire - power, wealth and the deaths of their enemies. God not only granted Solomon knowledge and wisdom, but also gave him wealth and power and a long rule in a time of peace during which he built the temple.

Ironically, towards the end of his life, it was Solomon's many wives and concubines who was his downfall. Many of them were foreign women who turned Solomon's heart away from God to worship false gods.

After the death of Solomon, the 12 tribes of Israel had a civil war and split into two kingdoms... the Kingdom of Israel that Assyria destroyed, expelling those Israelites from the Holy Land... and the Kingdom of Judah whose capital was Jerusalem until Babylon conquered them, taking most of them into Babylon as captives... and destroying both Jerusalem and the temple in the process.
 
Maybe King Solomon shouldn’t have had so many wives and concubines.
That does NOT seem very wise to me.

Plus the story doesn’t really answer anything. Lol
 
Shalimar said:
If Solomon turned towards other Gods, I believe that was his choice, not the responsibility of his wives and concubines.
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I'm relating what the Bible says... 1 Kings 11

" For when Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods,
and he was not wholeheartedly devoted to the LORD his God, as his father David had been. "

Solomon disobeyed Deuteronomy 17:17

" And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away,
nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold. "

God punished Solomon by taking the united kingdom from his son/household
via the civil war I mentioned in my last post.
 
adviceseeker said:
Why should we fear our creator? Do you have children? Just as children need to fear their parents sometimes, so we, the children of our maker must fear him. A whole lot of evil that humans inflict on each other would decrease greatly if we had a healthy dose of fear instilled in us towards our creator.
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I disagree. Fear begets fear, as violence begets violence. Learn responsibility, accountability, consequence, tolerance, honour, compassion, humility, empathy, these are the building blocks of wisdom. The Divine is not wrathful, but loving. We are not punished, but may develop spiritually through various situations, stressful or otherwise. For those who have been to Hell and back, the power of love is the greatest force in the Universe.it is the ultimate miracle, I have seen it in my life, and the lives of others.
 
Keesha said:
Maybe King Solomon shouldn’t have had so many wives and concubines.
That does NOT seem very wise to me.
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Solomon disobeyed Deuteronomy 17:17

" And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away,
nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold. "


Keesha said:
Plus the story doesn’t really answer anything. Lol
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It should tell you plenty. Even those like Solomon whom God blesses
should retain the "fear of the Lord" to remain in God's good graces.
Because there is one thing God requires above all else = obedience.

.
 
adviceseeker said:
Why should we fear our creator? Do you have children? Just as children need to fear their parents sometimes, so we, the children of our maker must fear him. A whole lot of evil that humans inflict on each other would decrease greatly if we had a healthy dose of fear instilled in us towards our creator.
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Clearly I disagree also. I don’t think children should fear their parents either. Love & respect them yes.
Fear is a negative emotion and in every religion , one of the main lessons is FEAR NOT!
 

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