Woman shoots at shoplifter in parking lot

Ameriscot said:
Go ahead gun lovers. Defend this one.

How is shoplifting a life threatening crime? The guy was escaping, not threatening anyone's life. I'm sick to death of reading about this crap.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eing-shoplifter-could-face-charges/?tid=sm_fb

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34469295
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No reason to "need to defend anything" it is your machinations
dont read about it.
entire problem solved by not letting woman carry guns
poor journalism, had to bring in Oregon shooting to gain some sort of relevance
what ever happened - it's not your call If it was unlawful discharge, she will be charged,

also to bring you up to speed,

Utah Supreme Court last week held in flavor of plaintiff against Walmart. Plaintiff who worked for Walmart was dismissed for shooting shop lifter who attacked employee/plaintiff, when employee confronted plaintiff. Court held for plaintiff and held Walmart must reinstate worker, etc. this case will act as precedence in future events.


private property owners may prohibit people from carrying on their property, legally. Usually this is to cover liability problems, not from some perceived politics about guns. If you doubt it look up the definition of concealed. (Nobody knows you got a roscoe) how can they block you from something that isn't a fact.


If you have "opted out" (decided not to use lethal force) as self defence., you are certainly welcome to your opinions on what constitutes lethal force, it's appropriate and legal ramifications etc. just don't expect the the users to be listening
 

Lethal force can be used in many instances besides self defense depending on the state. This is the basis of Castle Doctrine., among others, but not restricted to imminent threat in the vicinity, reckless endangerment (which may have been the case here). and if your in Texas "they needed it" sorry ken couldn't resist just joshin.
 
Hum, a shoplifter getting shot at, two college shootings in the same day there seems to be a pattern here...
Oh and people protesting Obama in Oregon...I'd be angry too...no we don't have your deepest sympathy, somebody should make it stop instead.
 
thank you , good idea Ill call it "Why I can't focus very long" or maybe "mixed metaphors"
 
On the other side of the coin, unknown to folks disbelieving firearms valid usefulness, guns are legally and successfully used thousands of times annually to thwart criminal activity, and SAVE lives. That's the main reason we still have them.

Gun Violence Archive 2014 Toll of Gun Violence
  • Total Number of Incidents 51,742
  • Number of Deaths[SUP]1[/SUP] 12,563
  • Number of Injuries[SUP]1[/SUP] 23,017
  • Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured[SUP]1[/SUP] 628
  • Number of Teens (age 12-17) Killed/Injured[SUP]1[/SUP] 2,373
  • Mass Shooting[SUP]2[/SUP] 283
  • Officer Involved Shooting[SUP]2[/SUP] 3,213
  • Home Invasion[SUP]2[/SUP] 2,604
  • Defensive Use[SUP]2[/SUP] 1,584
  • Accidental Shooting[SUP]2[/SUP] 1,598
Gun violence incidents collected/validated from 1200+ sources daily – source links on each incident report.
1: Actual number of deaths and injuries
2: Number of INCIDENTS reported and verified
Numbers on this table reflect a subset of all information
collected and will not add to 100% of incidents.
www.gunviolencearchive.org www.facebook.com/gunviolencearchive
Data Validated: October 09, 2015

logo-transparent.png

Explain some of these numbers...
"accidental shooting"- 1,598 documented cases of a gun accident?
283 "mass shootings" TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY THREE, how can anyone with a working brain stem justify that in any way?
Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured 628
Number of Teens (age 12-17) Killed/Injured 2,373 Two THOUSAND in one year...when we lost that many people in the Twin Towers it got attention, gun violence...eh not so much.
Then this list doesn't single out suicides or attempted suicides. You're having a bad time of it, maybe you've been drinking. Having a gun in the house makes you statistically more likely to successfully kill yourself. Unless you're a bad shot, then you end up a scarred veggie for the rest of your life.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I'm not a gun "lover" Ameriscot, but we do own guns. There's no defense for this crazy woman's actions, people like her give guns (and gun owners) a bad name. :rolleyes:
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I agree, that lady was wrong, very wrong. My husband and I both own guns also, but we don't go around shooting folks. I would only shoot someone that broke through my locked door and if they were facing me. Never shoot someone in the back because that means they are leaving. (At lest that is what a police officer told me.)

NEVER shot at a shoplifter, not to mention she endangered the lives of who knows how many people. I hope she does some jail time.

In the last few months the college my oldest granddaughter goes to went under lock down for several hours because some nut with a rifle had come on the campus. Several hours of terror for the kids and their families, my world totally came to a stop till she was safely escorted to her car by a couple of policeman. Then just recently, at the college my oldest grandson is attending 3 students were shot and one of them died on the spot. He was so upset he is finishing out the semester and transferring to a college closer to home. I know that will not ensure his safety but apparently it made him feel better.
 
Unfortunately many colleges are gun free zones, only the criminals have the guns. Many have changed and allow on campus carry. Brings to mind the 70 (I think) tower shooting in Texas were no guns were allowed.
 
fureverywhere said:
On the other side of the coin, unknown to folks disbelieving firearms valid usefulness, guns are legally and successfully used thousands of times annually to thwart criminal activity, and SAVE lives. That's the main reason we still have them.

Gun Violence Archive 2014 Toll of Gun Violence
  • Total Number of Incidents 51,742
  • Number of Deaths[SUP]1[/SUP] 12,563
  • Number of Injuries[SUP]1[/SUP] 23,017
  • Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured[SUP]1[/SUP] 628
  • Number of Teens (age 12-17) Killed/Injured[SUP]1[/SUP] 2,373
  • Mass Shooting[SUP]2[/SUP] 283
  • Officer Involved Shooting[SUP]2[/SUP] 3,213
  • Home Invasion[SUP]2[/SUP] 2,604
  • Defensive Use[SUP]2[/SUP] 1,584
  • Accidental Shooting[SUP]2[/SUP] 1,598
Gun violence incidents collected/validated from 1200+ sources daily – source links on each incident report.
1: Actual number of deaths and injuries
2: Number of INCIDENTS reported and verified
Numbers on this table reflect a subset of all information
collected and will not add to 100% of incidents.
www.gunviolencearchive.org www.facebook.com/gunviolencearchive
Data Validated: October 09, 2015

logo-transparent.png

Explain some of these numbers...
"accidental shooting"- 1,598 documented cases of a gun accident?
283 "mass shootings" TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY THREE, how can anyone with a working brain stem justify that in any way?
Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured 628
Number of Teens (age 12-17) Killed/Injured 2,373 Two THOUSAND in one year...when we lost that many people in the Twin Towers it got attention, gun violence...eh not so much.
Then this list doesn't single out suicides or attempted suicides. You're having a bad time of it, maybe you've been drinking. Having a gun in the house makes you statistically more likely to successfully kill yourself. Unless you're a bad shot, then you end up a scarred veggie for the rest of your life.
Click to expand...

Having a gun doesn't need to be justified under the heading of useful. A person can have one just for the sake of ownership. It suprizes me that law abiding gun owners feel some need to placate the anti gun culture, who somehow feel a child drowning in a swimming pool isnt as serious as a child gun accident. Or that a suicide by heroin overdose is somehow more ok.
most incidents of gun use to stop a crime go unreported.
 
Ameriscot said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Ben Carson defended it. He blames victims for getting shot.
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That character told of his own real life story, now that a brave fella.......NOT! You want THAT guy, not me.

Tuesday, appearing on Fox & Friends, Carson cast himself as a brave would be citizen hero, when he told the cast:

​
According to Carson, while he was at a Popeye’s chicken restaurant in Baltimore, an armed robber accosted him at gunpoint. In that situation, Carson did not try to heroically disarm the assailant. Instead, he helpfully suggested that the gunman point his weapon at the fellow working behind the counter. Carson retold the story as follows:

I have had a gun held on me when I was in a Popeye’s in Baltimore. [A] guy comes in, put the gun in my ribs. And I just said, ‘I believe you want the guy behind the counter.’


​
There is a clear difference between an armed robbery and an active shooter situation. Since they are not analogous situations, it can even be argued that Carson essentially did the right thing, by pointing out that the person behind the counter might be the person who can open the cash register, give the robber the money, and send him on his way.

However, this relatively passive act of compliance and cooperation with the robber, portrays Carson in a very different light than the courageous citizen hero who is going to bum rush an active shooter and save the day. Instead of taking one for the team, Carson instead told a real life gun man to aim his gun at someone else’s head instead, so that Carson could get himself out of danger by putting another person in the line of fire.

Given his real life experience, Carson should probably stop trying to convince people he morph into a live action hero in the midst of a crisis. Instead, maybe he could focus more on empathizing with the shooting victims, and work on some solutions to reduce our nation’s rate of gun violence.
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It's unfortunate that these events are used for politics. I hope we get started on prescription drug violence and refined sugar violence as these two kill far more than gun violence. Opps forgot inanimate objects don't kill things.
 
rt3 said:
also to bring you up to speed,

Utah Supreme Court last week held in flavor of plaintiff against Walmart. Plaintiff who worked for Walmart was dismissed for shooting shop lifter who attacked employee/plaintiff, when employee confronted plaintiff. Court held for plaintiff and held Walmart must reinstate worker, etc. this case will act as precedence in future events.
Click to expand...

I don't think your example brings anyone "up to speed", unless I'm missing something. This is a completely different situation, where the shop lifter "attacked" the employee.

The shoplifter in Ameriscot's initial post did NOT attack anyone, and was no threat at all. That man was not threatening to harm, rape or kill anyone....that is the only thing which would have given this conceal carry woman a valid reason to react as she did. That shooter wasn't even an employee of the store, just a busybody/hero wannabe, IMO. They should pull her carry license, she's obviously not able to handle the responsibility.

BTW rt3, I can't believe any pro gun person here is defending this crazy shooter.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I don't think your example brings anyone "up to speed", unless I'm missing something. This is a completely different situation, where the shop lifter "attacked" the employee.

The shoplifter in Ameriscot's initial post did NOT attack anyone, and was no threat at all. That man was not threatening to harm, rape or kill anyone....that is the only thing which would have given this conceal carry woman a valid reason to react as she did. That shooter wasn't even an employee of the store, just a busybody/hero wannabe, IMO. They should pull her carry license, she's obviously not able to handle the responsibility.

BTW rt3, I can't believe any pro gun person here is defending this crazy shooter.
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comment on Walmart was posted as information as to how the law will reflect shoplifters and thus has an effect on all cases regarding them including this one. No one here knows the actual circumstances, so a defense is not possible until discovery, if indeed any charges are filed. Speculation until then. This happened in Detroit so who knows. Not sure about Michigan but some states would allow her shooting as the van's occupants constituted reckless endangerment. Not defending or accusing simply saying positions. You are not correct In your assumption that personnel jeopardy is the only requirement for lethal force. If she did bad, or Detroit/Michigan doesn't recognize this defense they will pull her permit faster than a Chicago shootout. If she is as bad as is being made out, it won't matter as she will carry anyway.
 
rt3 said:
comment on Walmart was posted as information as to how the law will reflect shoplifters and thus has an effect on all cases regarding them including this one. No one here knows the actual circumstances, so a defense is not possible until discovery, if indeed any charges are filed. Speculation until then. This happened in Detroit so who knows. Not sure about Michigan but some states would allow her shooting as the van's occupants constituted reckless endangerment. Not defending or accusing simply saying positions. You are not correct In your assumption that personnel jeopardy is the only requirement for lethal force. If she did bad, or Detroit/Michigan doesn't recognize this defense they will pull her permit faster than a Chicago shootout. If she is as bad as is being made out, it won't matter as she will carry anyway.
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If the shoplifter is not attacking or threatening anyone, then this case is different than the Walmart case. I thought the police confirmed that the shooter was not threatened at all, isn't that enough circumstance to show that she was dangerous and reckless as described in this article? We agree that they should and likely will pull her permit for this.

Police confirmed on Wednesday that a concealed pistol license (CPL) holder was not being threatened by a fleeing shoplifter when she decided to fire multiple shots at him in a Home Depot parking lot.
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But when the SUV began to pull away, the CPL holder, a 48-year-old woman from Clarkston, suddenly began firing shots at the fleeing vehicle.

The shooter remained on the scene, cooperated with police, and was released pending an investigation. But gun safety experts say the shooting details that have been released so far don’t look great for the shooter.

To use a concealed weapon in Michigan, a CPL holder needs to think that there is an imminent danger of death, great bodily harm or sexual assault, or think there is a similar danger to someone else, said Rick Ector, a firearms trainer who runs Legally Armed Detroit.

He added that a gun is “truly a tool of last resort.”

CPL holders who misuse their guns could face a wide range of charges — among them felony firearm, reckless use of a firearm and felonious assault.
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Having her permit pulled should be the least of her problems. I hope she gets charged with felony firearm and reckless use of a firearm and gets smacked with a fat fine and maybe jail time.
 
This didn't take place in Detroit. It was in a suburb of Detroit. My granddaughters live in a suburb of Detroit. Thinking bullet proof vests for them for xmas gifts.
 
Question for those of you who have a gun in your home for protection: would you shoot someone that broke into your house and didn't have a weapon and wasn't threatening anyone's life and was clearly only there to steal your 'stuff'?
 
Like mother, like daughter.

My daughter just shared this Facebook post.



Steve Elliott

October 5 at 12:49pm · Avery, CA, United States ·

I am a responsible gun owner.

I bought my first gun when I was 12. It was a Browning 12-gauge shotgun, and I saved money from my paper route and cleaning a drive-in restaurant to buy it in time for dove season. In the years before I could legally drive, I’d tie the Browning across the handlebars of my bike and ride to the fields outside town to hunt.

I’ve owned several guns since, and own a handgun now. I bought that gun to keep my family safe, and lock it up to keep them saf...e from it. Like I said, responsible.

And so while I’d like to believe I’m not part and party to the gun violence that stains America, I can’t. My grandmother shot and killed herself with a gun, and a few years ago my father shot and didn’t quite kill himself with one. My stepbrother died in a murder-suicide with a gun, and the husband of one of my sister’s co-workers was killed in a mass shooting.

None of that happened with my gun, of course, but after every new mass shooting, I’m reminded that I bear a portion of the responsibility for our nation’s gun violence. There are too many guns to do anything about it, the gun lobby says. Regulations are a slippery slope that only limit the rights of responsible gun owners, they say.

My gun is being used to argue against common-sense laws and policies that could reduce gun violence in America, arguments I find unconscionable. That’s what being a responsible gun owner means today – I’m responsible. I’ve been uneasy about that for a while now, and ashamed to admit it’s taken two more mass shootings for me to do anything about it.

That ended today. Today I disassembled my handgun, a 9mm Ruger, clamped the pieces in a vice and cut them in half with an angle grinder. I’m sending the proper paperwork into the state to report it destroyed.

None of us individually can stop gun violence in America, but as a responsible gun owner, I will no longer be used as a justification for doing nothing about it. Today I did what I could. Today there is ‪#‎ONELESSGUN‬.

gun destroyed.JPG
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I'm assuming that the hash tag #ONELESSGUN will reveal a lot of other people with the same opinion.
 

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