You are Not the Father

Murrmurr said:
I'm against making this mandatory.
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Fair enough. But I still have those questions in my mind. Does the child have the right to know whom its father is? And if so, at what age? You've got to figure, some of those 360,000 children will be fathers who don't want to know. Some will be fathers who simply are excluded by the mother. Some will be with the knowledge of Dad, some not.

It's the number that bothers me. 11% isn't inconsequential. There are many legal and monetary issues involved. I tend to side with the right of the child to know, and also the actual father.

ps: Don't know why this came out in two posts. Some weird user error, no doubt.
 

VaughanJB said:
Fair enough. But I still have those questions in my mind. Does the child have the right to know whom its father is? And if so, at what age? You've got to figure, some of those 360,000 children will be fathers who don't want to know. Some will be fathers who simply are excluded by the mother. Some will be with the knowledge of Dad, some not.

It's the number that bothers me. 11% isn't inconsequential. There are many legal and monetary issues involved. I tend to side with the right of the child to know, and also the actual father.

ps: Don't know why this came out in two posts. Some weird user error, no doubt.
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There isn't a certain age when a kid can research who their father is, but they have to be 18 to obtain certain legal documents. They can ask an adult to get those for them, of course.

Anyway, yeah, the only issue I have is making DNA testing mandatory for every birth, compelling mothers to submit to it. That isn't right.
 
Murrmurr said:
Anyway, yeah, the only issue I have is making DNA testing mandatory for every birth, compelling mothers to submit to it. That isn't right.
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I hear you - but other than the cost, I'm struggling for a downside. At least some of these mothers will be lying to their partners, but other than some fluke test, there doesn't seem to be any protection for these men.

I did just check to see how much a paternity test costs, and was surprised at how pricey they are: £290 in the UK, apparently. Ouch.
 

VaughanJB said:
.. I'm struggling for a downside.
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The downside is government intrusion in people's private lives. There's also that tax dollars would be funding the tests for mothers who are on Medicaid / below the poverty line, plus we'd fund the data base that stores the info and its security features and the wages of everyone involved, and you can bet your bottom dollar the directors and regulators of this enterprise would each be paid 100 thousand a year or so. And you can bet that it would be corruptible....someone would find a way to cash in on selling the data or whatever.

Too many downsides, imo.

Keep it voluntary, is all I'm saying.
 
We should not have to "opt out" of things that aren't necessary when we already have the individual power to "opt in". We don't need more government intrusion and power in our lives. As many have already stated, it should not be mandatory.
 
VaughanJB said:
Honestly, if you were a newborn father and your wife was refusing such a test - what would that suggest? :D
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It would suggest to me as the child's mother that I'd hooked up with a man who was cheating on me, and since that was his pattern he was also looking under my bed. I'd not only refuse the test, I'd be lining my ducks in a row to ditch him ASAP, child or no child. And you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd take his a$$ to the cleaners on my way out.
 
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StarSong said:
It would suggest to me as the child's mother that I'd hooked up with a man who was cheating on me, and since that was his pattern he was also looking under my bed. I'd not only refuse the test, I'd be lining my ducks in a row to ditch him ASAP, child or no child. And you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd take his a$$ to the cleaners on my way out.
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She refused for a reason...Good point.
 
VaughanJB said:
As I stated earlier, it's estimated 11% of births today and fathered by someone other than that on the birth certificate. That's 360,000 children a year. I think that's important. Moreso, I think it's the right of the child to know.
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but we have yet to see the source of this estimate. I would think it extremely unlikely IRL.

anyone who needs to know this now can pay for testing.

Totally unneccesary to make it mandatory.

Interestingly, in 3 pages of discussion, nobody but yourself is in favour of this.
 
VaughanJB said:
Apparently, a third of all paternity tests show that the "father" is no such thing. Along with this, it is estimated 11% of all births if tested, would reveal the "father" was not actually, the father.

So the question is, would you be in favor of mandatory testing for all newborns?
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NO If I were uncertain of my children's parentage a chemical test would not be my answer. I am very confident in that regard.
 
StarSong said:
It would suggest to me as the child's mother that I'd hooked up with a man who was cheating on me, and since that was his pattern he was also looking under my bed. I'd not only refuse the test, I'd be lining my ducks in a row to ditch him ASAP, child or no child. And you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd take his a$$ to the cleaners on my way out.
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Oh, that sounds like a great marriage. :D

You really feel this way just because your man had a doubt? It's a non-invasive test, and I'd of thought reassurance wouldn't be a lot to ask in the grand scheme of things. This is the entire point - 11% are not the father, surely you could understand if your partner wanted to know for sure?
 
TennVet said:
NO If I were uncertain of my children's parentage a chemical test would not be my answer. I am very confident in that regard.
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A test would either confirm it, or prove otherwise. So rather than letting your mind hang in the balance, it can be settled for sure. How is that not an answer of some kind. I mean sure, it wouldn't be the end of things, because a negative result would lead to other questions, but it's a start.
 
January said:
but we have yet to see the source of this estimate. I would think it extremely unlikely IRL.

anyone who needs to know this now can pay for testing.

Totally unneccesary to make it mandatory.

Interestingly, in 3 pages of discussion, nobody but yourself is in favour of this.
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It's not difficult to find.

You just have to keep in mind that there is a difference between those actively seeking paternity tests, and those who have one because of something else. For those actively seeking tests, the numbers are much higher. However, this makes sense in that clearly they think something is wrong.

I've no problem standing alone on a matter, but that said, can you quote where I said I wanted this become law? I simply posed the question. I did this so we could have a discussion. A good few have gotten real defensive about the topic. :D
 
Mandatory paternity tests for newborns would give all of us guys a chance to polish up our best Michael Jackson impersonations, and perform Billie Jean, with dance moves, of course… 🕺

IMG_2283.jpeg

…and what if alien DNA is found? How are you gonna slap Marvin the Martian with a paternity suit, huh?! 🙀

IMG_2282.jpeg
 
Most of you seem to be coming at this from the point of view that the mother is married, but with almost half of all births being to unmarried women I would think that's where most of the "wrong father listed" stuff is happening. She may think her present boyfriend is the father but actually it was the guy she hooked up with right before she met him. Since it's probable that there will be another boyfriend within a year or so it seems only right that the bio-dad be the one making payments for the next 18 years.

I certainly don't see this idea as a way for the government to bring women to heel. Paternity tests began to bring the men to heel so that the government could get the fathers to pay child support to the unwed mothers.

Our social services for unwed mothers were set up when they were only about 3% of births. Now with those births at 40% and rising it's become quite a burden on the tax payers.

Still. I'm not in favor of mandatory testing.
 
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I have to admit it. Every time, I hear, "you are NOT the father", I think of Jerry Springer.
Today, if there's a question of paternity, get DNA. Some of my friends married right out of high school, and 2-3 kids later the marriage was over. Now, on their second marriage, it's in the back of their minds if all those kids were his. 18 years of child support payments doesn't help the feeling.
 
VaughanJB said:
Oh, that sounds like a great marriage. :D

You really feel this way just because your man had a doubt? It's a non-invasive test, and I'd of thought reassurance wouldn't be a lot to ask in the grand scheme of things. This is the entire point - 11% are not the father, surely you could understand if your partner wanted to know for sure?
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I've been in a great marriage for over 43 years and can tell you with certainty that neither my husband nor I ever doubted the other's fidelity. Trust is the foundation on which good relationships are built.

If he needed verification that a child born to us was truly his, he'd also be looking for verification that when I said I was going to my book club meeting, I wasn't seeing someone on the sly. Or that I really did spend that $150 on groceries and not on sports gambling. And I'd be stressing that his business lunch with a contractor might be a nooner with a sales rep.

You either trust someone or you don't. If you don't, the relationship isn't going to be a happy one. My experience with mistrustful people is that they're projecting their own misdeeds on their partners.

Della said:
Most of you seem to be coming at this from the point of view that the mother is married, but with almost half of all births being to unmarried women I would think that's where most of the "wrong father listed" stuff is happening. She may think her present boyfriend is the father but actually it was the guy she hooked up with right before she met him. Since it's probable that there will be another boyfriend within a year or so it seems only right that the bio-dad be the one making payments for the next 18 years.

I certainly don't see this idea as a way for the government to bring women to heel. Paternity tests began to bring the men to heel so that the government could get the fathers to pay child support to the unwed mothers.

Our social services for unwed mothers were set up when they were only about 3% of births. Now with those births at 40% and rising it's become quite a burden on the tax payers.
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A lot of the children born out of wedlock are nevertheless born into committed relationships. Often the parents get married after the child/children are born.

Not all children of unmarried mothers are reliant on taxpayer supported social services. However, with abortion rights falling, the numbers will almost certainly increase dramatically.
 
StarSong said:
Not all children of unmarried mothers are reliant on taxpayer supported social services. However, with abortion rights falling, the numbers will almost certainly increase dramatically.
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I never suggested they all were. Enough of that 40% are beholden to the tax payer for subsidized housing, aid to dependent child, child tax credit, Wic, free or subsidized day care, Medicaid and free college for the mothers, to have a serious effect on the economy.

StarSong said:
However, with abortion rights falling, the numbers will almost certainly increase dramatically.
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I wouldn't count on abortion having a big effect on it one way or another. Abortions were not legal in the 1940's when the unwed birth rate was 3%. We all thought that when birth control became widely available in the late 1960's the unmarried birth rate would become almost zero and instead it rose dramatically. If women would actually use the methods available we would barely need abortions at all.
 
VaughanJB said:
It's not difficult to find.

You just have to keep in mind that there is a difference between those actively seeking paternity tests, and those who have one because of something else. For those actively seeking tests, the numbers are much higher. However, this makes sense in that clearly they think something is wrong.

I've no problem standing alone on a matter, but that said, can you quote where I said I wanted this become law? I simply posed the question. I did this so we could have a discussion. A good few have gotten real defensive about the topic. :D
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Well if it is so easy to find, could you please provide a link.

I don't think anyone has become defensive, they just don't agree with you.

If something is mandatory, how is that different from being law???
 
VaughanJB said:
Oh, that sounds like a great marriage. :D

You really feel this way just because your man had a doubt? It's a non-invasive test, and I'd of thought reassurance wouldn't be a lot to ask in the grand scheme of things. This is the entire point - 11% are not the father, surely you could understand if your partner wanted to know for sure?
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Yes I would feel that way too. Trust is crucial in a relationship - if my partner didn't have that and ' had a doubt and needed reassurance' then relationship is over.
 

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