You have more to fear from a sovereign citizen than from ISIS!

Butterfly said:
Back to the original subject -- I'd a helluva lot rather face somebody with a gun than a bunch of ISIS guys who want to burn me alive!

As long as there are seriously bad guys out there with guns, I'll keep mine, thank you.

AND, BTW, I'm sure all of those seriously bad guys will worry a whole lot about whether or not they have a permit, should one be required.
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By that line of reasoning... I think we should do away with ALL laws..... afterall.... the bad guys don't obey them anyway.. Why have any?
 
QuickSilver said:
By that line of reasoning... I think we should do away with ALL laws..... afterall.... the bad guys don't obey them anyway.. Why have any?
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fallacy slippery slope arguement, try again
 

GeneMO said:
OK, we'll take the safety and mechanical ability out. People who are ticketed for "Careless and Imprudent driving", Driving while drunk, speeding, using a car to flee from police, using a car to commit a crime, and you are banned from owning a car. That more to your liking?

And it appears you are not from the US, so I will let you in on our gun buying methods. Years ago they came up with a National Instant Background Check. You go in to buy a gun, the dealer phones your info in, and they have a link to the crime stats, police records, etc. If you are a crook, you can't buy a gun.

Not to fear if you are a crook, cause they dont follow the rules anyway, they just steal the guns, or buy one already stolen by someone else.

Gene
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But it does nothing to weed out possible lunatics whereas in Canada, your application will get the RCMP contacting your references to try and weed out potential loose cannons.
And I also did notice in your description, there is no mention that classes MUST be attended where people are drilled on safety. And with that, I'm reminded of 'adjusting bra holsters and baby's getting hold of mommy's gun in her purse at Walmart, little girls using automatic weapons and shooting their instructors, sales clerks playing at 'showdown at the OK Corral' while at work.... Maybe those people could have used a couple classes on safety don't you think or in the case of the boobs that got into the fight at work, maybe a phone call by the police would have discovered a relative who thought the shooter was a nut and shouldn't have a gun?

Another thing your method doesn't protect the citizenry against is the guy who is angry at someone and determined to teach them a lesson goes to a gun show or shop, buys a gun and within minutes can be out the door with his lethal weapon and headed for the home of whomever he is angry at. With Canada's methods of registering weapons, there is ample time for sober second thought.

Personally I don't like guns, but I'm not going to insist that you give them up. BUT I would like to know that every gun owner has been made to jump through enumerable hoops before you get what is purchased for the sake of it's being a weapon. I buy my car to be transportation, but gun owners (even the ones who are doing target practice/competition stuff) are still buying a weapon.
 
Still doesn't float. All studies trying to show regulation lowers crime are flops. Accidents are not crimes, shouldn't be in same category. U.S. has qmany gun training areas, all the way from the Boy Scouts to specialized shooting schools. Probably more gun instructors than Canada has driving instructors.
treating shooting accidents and taking out the stats for suicides, as accidents shows the risk rate lower than being hit by lightening. Or taking the dog for a walk etc. etc. etc.
please don't say you can't do anything about nature, just stay in the house, it solves both problems.
 
rt3 said:
Still doesn't float. All studies trying to show regulation lowers crime are flops. Accidents are not crimes, shouldn't be in same category. U.S. has qmany gun training areas, all the way from the Boy Scouts to specialized shooting schools. Probably more gun instructors than Canada has driving instructors.
treating shooting accidents and taking out the stats for suicides, as accidents shows the risk rate lower than being hit by lightening. Or taking the dog for a walk etc. etc. etc.
please don't say you can't do anything about nature, just stay in the house, it solves both problems.
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I never said it lowered crimes, although maybe you could link one of those studies, but it would lower the number of stupid accidents I'd think and those peoples lives are worth something to their families. And if the deaths whether accident or intentional, are caused by guns, than they can be considered together in a discussion of upping the regulations and requirements of gun ownership. You don't get to separate them just because it suits your argument to do so.

As for your gun training areas...are people required by law to attend them or is that at their own discretion? If it's their own discretion, than as I see it, right there you have a flaw. Not sure what you mean about 'nature' though.
 
Last time I was in Canada, the Mounty ask me if I had any guns at the border. I replied "why do I need one?" He did not think that was funny, and replied "only mobsters carry guns", at which point I realized he was serious and burst out laughing. He asked to me to pull over and step out of the truck. I asked for his supervisor, and we had a talk about attitude, hunting in British Columbia, gun papers and thousands of dollars spent in Canada. I was going to tell the first Mountie his shorts were to tight, but the guy was at least 7 feet tall.
 
Butterfly said:
Back to the original subject -- I'd a helluva lot rather face somebody with a gun than a bunch of ISIS guys who want to burn me alive!

As long as there are seriously bad guys out there with guns, I'll keep mine, thank you.

AND, BTW, I'm sure all of those seriously bad guys will worry a whole lot about whether or not they have a permit, should one be required.
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I'll take a bullet in the head any day, rather than be burned alive or have my head cut off. Better yet, put a bullet in their head if they're coming with a sharp knife at me or my neighbor. There would have been a lot more heads rolling in Oklahoma if someone didn't come in with a gun to put a halt to the murders. The bad guys will always have guns, and they live for the day all the responsible citizens will have theirs taken away, easy pickings for them. I doubt that will happen though, I'm not too worried about it.
 
Debby, lets settle it this way. Everyone here in the States that is worried about all us gun nuts, can move to Canada where it is safe.

I think it was Ben Franklin that stated: Those who would sacrifice their freedom for temporary safety, deserve neither, and will surely loose both.

I didn't put that in quotes cause from memory I am not sure of the exact wording.

The US is not perfect, but lots of people from all over the world are trying everything to get here.

Gene
 
You have given no stats, simply quoted a couple of stupid accidents. By definition all accidents are stupid. All concealed permits require safety training in the U.S.

by nature I mean that events that occur either have a memory or they don't, regardless of type of event. Memory less events like lightening don't know what they did last time they did it. Ex. What are the odds that lightening will strike twice in the same spot? It's the same for any number of strikes. The lightening doesn't know it hit there last time. Of course there are things that can increase the probability like metal etc. but all things being equal the same math applies.
This does not apply to human stuff. No amount of training can remove the possibility of the event. If your talking about Cateris Paribus, which is the only thing that matters, the stats across the Board will be the same.
 
If a person does some searching, it quickly seems that the States with the strictest Gun Control laws, also seem to have the highest murder rates. California, for example, has the tightest controls on gun ownership...AND the highest murder rate. Illinois, and particularly Chicago, isn't far behind. The heavily populated States in the NE, have substantially higher homicide rates than the MidWest.

However, the factor that most statistics seem to gloss over is the fact that most murders, and gun violence, in this country, are drug and street gang related. California has a constant on-going battle between the various Hispanic drug gangs, and most major cities have the highest concentration of gun violence in the poorer Ethnic neighborhoods.

Gun control advocates would serve their purpose better by addressing these kind of issues, rather than just blaming everything on "guns".
 
And by way of comparison your chances of being the accident of one of the events is astronomically higher than getting shot by some kid in a shopping cart.
 
[h=1]"What The Rest Of America Can Learn From California's Strict Gun Laws"[/h]What The Rest Of America Can Learn From California's Strict Gun Laws

by Pamela Engel at Business Insider

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-californias-gun-laws-have-worked-2013-8

"SNIP...............................


California, the state with the strictest gun laws in the country, has seen a 56% drop in its gun death rate in the past 20 years, according to a study that the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence released last week.

The study points out that 5,500 Californians were killed by gunfire in 1993, but that number dropped to 2,935 by 2010. The number of people per 100,000 who were killed by guns also dropped dramatically from 1990 to 2010 (see chart at right, and note that the numbers on the Y axis seem to be spaced unevenly).

While violent crime (including gun deaths) dropped everywhere in the U.S. during the 1990s, gun deaths declined even more in the Golden State. The nonprofit Law Center argues that there's a correlation between the state's strict gun laws and the dramatic drop in the number of deaths from guns.

This theory is bolstered by other studies done elsewhere — a Center for American Progress study found that states with the weakest gun laws have the highest rates of gun violence, and a study released by Boston Children's Hospital in March found that states with more gun laws have fewer gun-related deaths.

.............................SNIP"
 
GeneMO said:
Debby, lets settle it this way. Everyone here in the States that is worried about all us gun nuts, can move to Canada where it is safe.

I think it was Ben Franklin that stated: Those who would sacrifice their freedom for temporary safety, deserve neither, and will surely loose both.

I didn't put that in quotes cause from memory I am not sure of the exact wording.

The US is not perfect, but lots of people from all over the world are trying everything to get here.

Gene
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Or Scotland. Very safe here. Only rifles for hunting. And how is anyone losing their freedom by moving to Canada? How is the US more free than Canada?
 
I am still musing over the fact that anyone would take forty guns out in a boat with them(and then the boat sinks) what can this possibly mean? or who has every gun in the house stolen by travelling gypsies? both scenarios sound like something from a movie(made by the Cohen brothers.)Or, is it simply a joke?:confused:
 
Ok here is the punch line, it's really 50 guns. In the Us a form 4077 form is filled out and a background check is run oking the sale. This information can only be held for 48 hours as it violates the privacy laws. the anti gun folks want all guns registered on a national data base, which means I can't comply because my all sunk. doña' believe me ____. Prove they didn't
 
oakapple said:
I am still musing over the fact that anyone would take forty guns out in a boat with them(and then the boat sinks) what can this possibly mean? or who has every gun in the house stolen by travelling gypsies? both scenarios sound like something from a movie(made by the Cohen brothers.)Or, is it simply a joke?:confused:
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I dont have any guns to register. Gypsies stole em all. No need to come looking for guns at my place.
 
rt3 said:
Last time I was in Canada, the Mounty ask me if I had any guns at the border. I replied "why do I need one?" He did not think that was funny, and replied "only mobsters carry guns", at which point I realized he was serious and burst out laughing. He asked to me to pull over and step out of the truck. I asked for his supervisor, and we had a talk about attitude, hunting in British Columbia, gun papers and thousands of dollars spent in Canada. I was going to tell the first Mountie his shorts were to tight, but the guy was at least 7 feet tall.
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:lofl: Welcome to the real world. Do you imagine that I would be allowed to enter the US armed to the teeth?
From my experiences, your border protection officers are a bit lacking in the sense of humour department too.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
:lofl: Welcome to the real world. Do you imagine that I would be allowed to enter the US armed to the teeth?
From my experiences, your border protection officers are a bit lacking in the sense of humour department too.
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No you wouldn't. But once here? It's a veritable candy store of munitions...
 
I think the Canadians are probably worried about illegal firearms trafficking across the border.

On a side note, years ago a friend of mine travelled to the UK via the USSR (Aeroflot airlines) and on arrival they checked all of her Australian currency and clothing, especially underwear and jeans. When she left she had to still have all of the clothing and account for any money she had spent. The black market in western clothing and foreign currency was rife. When you cross any border you find the rules are not what you might expect.
 
Hmmm, my underwear drawer must be worth a fortune, especially my manties...
 
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