Your "Socialism" section/forum caught my eye

JimBob1952 said:
I've noticed that when people talk about the merits of socialism they are really praising what might be called Social Democracy, which combines a market economy (capitalism) with strong social programs and a higher level of worker involvement in labor policies. Which is great, it's just a question of how far to take it.
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Social democracy pretty much describes the Australian system. Capitalism thrives here but we have various safety nets to catch people who are not thriving in the economic system for various reasons.

One example is the pharmaceutical benefit scheme (PBS). For many prescription only drugs the government enters into a price agreement with the manufacturers and then subsidises the cost of the drug for the customer. All prescription drugs are then charged to the customer at the same price. The price is lower for pensioners and low income customers such as students. On top of that, for people who need a lot of scripts, the cumulative amount spent is tallied and when it reaches a certain amount all other scripts for the rest of the year are free of charge. Hubby and I are treated as one unit and since our individual expenditures are tallied together, we have already reached the safety net limit, we now have nothing to pay for prescription medications for the rest of this year. No-one has to go without important medications under this system.
 

Verisure said:
There is nothing wrong with Communism, Capitalism or Socialism. They all had to have been good ideas otherwise no one would have agreed with them. So, any criticism is based upon either preferring one over the other or finding discrepancies with regard to corruption in any one of them.
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These days most socio-economic systems have become a hybrid, combining features from the 3 sets of thought. The People's Republic of China is a socialist state governed by a communist party. According to the Cato Institute China is a Capitalist country,a fusion of authoritarianism with capitalism to form the "new communism".
 

Bella said:
Good try, Miz Biz! ;) Of course, you know that you might as well be p*ssing in the wind. Nobody gonna pay no mind. They just keep at it ad nauseam, as long as they can get away with it! :rolleyes:
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Yep, well, in retrospect isn't it rather "interesting" that there's a thread with the title "What is socialism?" ? Seems like a contradiction. I mean a discussion of socialism will always be largely a political discussion. Yet there's that rule.
 
SeniorBen said:
Where in the world is true unfettered capitalism "flourishing?"
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Capitalism is what -- a loosely defined economic system of varying degrees of purity - one of private ownership of the means of production and pricing in an open and competitive market place -- a market place with some, but minimal, government interference. The United states, while not entirely unfettered by those who promote governmental interference in the market place and seek to regulate ownership of private property, has been a guiding light in this regard for the rest of the world. Experiments in government ownership of private property and the means of production, commonly regarded as socialism, have been met with failure and have been forced to adopt many of the attributes of free enterprise -- such as Russia and the members of their Soviet Socialist Union, China, Venezuela, and the National Socialism of Hitler's Germany.

I know what is coming next, so please don't hesitate to trot out the Nordic states.
 
JimBob1952 said:
Er...why do you think that is? (That there aren't many socialist kibbutzes left)

One possibility is that true socialism (I'm not talking about social programs such as SS and Medicare) doesn't work, and never really has.
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I've always wondered how the system affected the children. Do children who are raised by several people rather than one find it difficult to bond with someone and form lasting relationships?
 
Nathan said:
These days most socio-economic systems have become a hybrid, combining features from the 3 sets of thought. The People's Republic of China is a socialist state governed by a communist party. According to the Cato Institute China is a Capitalist country,a fusion of authoritarianism with capitalism to form the "new communism".
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I've heard the Chinese economy described as "government run capitalism."
 
ElCastor said:
Capitalism is what -- a loosely defined economic system of varying degrees of purity - one of private ownership of the means of production and pricing in an open and competitive market place -- a market place with some, but minimal, government interference. The United states, while not entirely unfettered by those who promote governmental interference in the market place and seek to regulate ownership of private property, has been a guiding light in this regard for the rest of the world. Experiments in government ownership of private property and the means of production, commonly regarded as socialism, have been met with failure and have been forced to adopt many of the attributes of free enterprise -- such as Russia and the members of their Soviet Socialist Union, China, Venezuela, and the National Socialism of Hitler's Germany.

I know what is coming next, so please don't hesitate to trot out the Nordic states.
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Socialism is where the people control the means of production, which may be the government if the country has a true democracy. It's not socialism when a dictator has control over everything and the people don't have a say.
 
Nathan said:
These days most socio-economic systems have become a hybrid, combining features from the 3 sets of thought. The People's Republic of China is a socialist state governed by a communist party. According to the Cato Institute China is a Capitalist country,a fusion of authoritarianism with capitalism to form the "new communism".
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All true, but few people (Americans in particular) have not as much as a clue and that's why they echo McCarthy-ish cliches and cannot pronounce words such as "China" or "Cuba". They seem to believe they are called "Communist China" and "Communist Cuba".
 
A lot of good discussion here. I have a light background in economics, so I understand the theoretical fundamentals of both economic systems.

In my job I was required to travel around the world and work with divisions of our company that were in other countries. I got to see much of these counties and work with many levels of staff who lived in these countries. I was born and raised in the USA. I spent time in China, Russian, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Sweden, Germany, etc.

When talking about economic systems, as many have already said, Socialist countries are not purely socialized economies and free market countries are not purely free market economies.

But one observation I made. The individuals living and working in Russia and China had much less wealth than in America. All other countries I spent time in seemed that individuals had more than either China or Russia also. But each of these countries have more 'socialization' than in America, and their individual lifestyles were still below what Americans have in general.
 
This is a purely personal observation. The only country other than the US in which I have spent a lot of time is France.

France is fairly "socialized" with government-run benefits including a good healthcare system, good free secondary schools and low-cost universities for those who can get in. (Most are highly selective). France has nationalized some industries and privatized others. Their rail system (nationalized) is really impressive.

However, the people I know there (who are shop teachers, electricians and other mid-wage individuals) find it hard to get by. Taxes are high, wages are low and the cost of living relative to wages is very high.

GDP per capita in France is about $42,000, versus about $72,000 for the US. The unemployment rate is about 7.3 percent, versus about 3.6 percent for the US. The economy is fairly inert. There isn't much innovation -- when was the last time anybody got excited about something new from France? -- and there is a good deal of social unrest related to immigration, inequality and other issues.

I don't think anyplace is a paradise. However, based on what little I know, if I had to choose someplace else to live I would probably go to Australia, if they would let me in. (Although I have to say from a US perspective it seems really expensive!)
 
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John cycling said:
The U.S. is generously socialist <-- for the already rich billionaires, and brutal capitalism for the rest of us, which ensures that the wealth inequity keeps growing larger and larger.
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Let's state this the way most economists talk about it. One of the disadvantages of free market capitalism is that you always have winners and losers. People move up and down the economic system.

Also, when talking about billionaires, all societies in the world have billionaires. It is not unique to free market systems.... Many times, they inherited wealth, in socialized countries only top powers in government have access to wealth...
 
Timewise 60+ said:
........
But one observation I made. The individuals living and working in Russia and China had much less wealth than in America. All other countries I spent time in seemed that individuals had more than either China or Russia also. But each of these countries have more 'socialization' than in America, and their individual lifestyles were still below what Americans have in general.
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This is very silly. You should be ashamed of making such a ridiculous statement. Some of the countries you mention are vastly superior to the US in:
* Democracy
* Freedom
* Education
* Medical availability
* Quality of life

Also, the American poverty level doesn't even exist in some of the countries you claim to be "below Amerian lifestyles". I suggest you drastically edit your post.
 
Verisure said:
This is very silly. You should be ashamed of making such a ridiculous statement. Some of the countries you mention are vastly superior to the US in:
* Democracy
* Freedom
* Education
* Medical availability
* Quality of life

Also, the American poverty level doesn't even exist in some of the countries you claim to be "below Amerian lifestyles". I suggest you drastically edit your post.
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Interesting. Please list the countries that are "vastly superior" to the US in: Democracy, Freedom, Education, Medical availability, and Quality of life ...
 
Verisure said:
This is very silly. You should be ashamed of making such a ridiculous statement. Some of the countries you mention are vastly superior to the US in:
* Democracy
* Freedom
* Education
* Medical availability
* Quality of life

Also, the American poverty level doesn't even exist in some of the countries you claim to be "below Amerian lifestyles". I suggest you drastically edit your post.
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You only are displaying your own ignorance! Move on...
 
Verisure said:
There is nothing wrong with Communism, Capitalism or Socialism. They all had to have been good ideas otherwise no one would have agreed with them. So, any criticism is based upon either preferring one over the other or finding discrepancies with regard to corruption in any one of them.
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Nothing wrong with Communism ???? You must live on a different planet than I do because the planet I live on Communism is a dictatorship where the great mass of people are prisoners in their own country. When Communism took over countries of Eastern Europe hundreds of thousands of people fled to democracies. The same thing happened in Cuba.

Additionally, citizens of Communism are/can be arrested, without any hope of a fair trial. People in those countries often disappear into the "Night and Fog" never to be seen again.

Moreover, tens of millions of people of the Soviet Union were deported to gulags of Siberia where they died horrible deaths. It is not often discussed but Stalin was responsible for more deaths of his own people than Hitler killed in the Holocaust.

It would be difficult to determine which country was the most monstrous in all of human history ... the USSR OR Nazi Germany.
 
JimBob1952 said:
Er...why do you think that is? (That there aren't many socialist kibbutzes left)

One possibility is that true socialism (I'm not talking about social programs such as SS and Medicare) doesn't work, and never really has.
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That is true, still, it was a wonderful experience.
 


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