Changing Grammar Over The Years!

Old Salt

Old Salt

Senior Member
Location
New Brunswick, Canada!
Since English is my second language I am prone to make all kinds of grammatical errors myself, so, please, don't pick on me if I should make some.

But here are some examples of how times have changed on me. Or maybe I never noticed before! :)

The use of "farther!" I have seen nothing but "further" in normal conversation, on TV, in books. Does anyone still use "farther?"

"There was no room for Roger and I" Most prevalent in self published books but often heard on TV or in daily life. I don't know when this abomination came into use but it did not exist in the fifties and sixties. It was always "there was no room for Roger and me." Remove the "Roger" from the sentence and you end up with "there was no room for I."

This might be a regional thing and therefore quite okay but I really don't recall ever reading or hearing about "how they had been waiting on us for over an hour." Waiting on somebody was always in connection with serving someone. Is this new? Is this regional?

There is no judgment in the above. English is ever changing. Just curious about when those samples became the norm!
 

Gary O' said:
English...bastard language and whore of many (German being one) is an easy target

I'd imagine my English profs have turned in their graves like they were on a spit
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So would my German profs! :) I watch German soccer every Sunday and am amazed how many English words have managed to sneak into the language during my lengthy absence . The linguistic purists must be beside themselves.
 
Gary O' said:
English...bastard language and whore of many (German being one) is an easy target

I'd imagine my English profs have turned in their graves like they were on a spit
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Between the original inhabitants whose name I forget at the moment, plus Romans, plus Angles, plus Saxons, plus Vikings, plus time, English is quite a mishmash! I always have to shamefully admit that I cannot understand any of the Shakespeare plays, which makes me a cultural outcast. But I've learned to live with it!
 
RadishRose said:
Could care less...Aarghh!
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I see that one quite often with self published authors. I write reviews now and then for Amazon.ca and that one takes the number 2 spot of personal beefs. I always end up pleading: "Please get an editor or proof reader or a friend who majored in English!" The last one, because it is so harsh, only when the book was so horrible that I had to stop reading.

Which reminds me: how many authors don't know the difference between who and whom? Or whoever and whomever, ie. " with who she had only spoken last night." I very seldom blame the author because when the Muse strikes you don't worry about details, you keep typing. I do blame them for not doing enough editing. Spell Check, too, as another example, will be the death of proper English yet. Here's another few that tend to be misused: there and their, affect and effect, naval and navel, sight and site. Aargh is right!
 
I am still wondering and will probably never know for sure WHEN the changes took place. Especially when it comes to "making room for Roger and I!" :) The first time I read a similarly awkward sentence was only about five years ago. I had never heard of it before. Some say mother was at fault as she corrected us for saying: "Me and Roger are going to the mall!" And she would correct: "It's Roger and I, dear!" And we assumed this was always the case. Is that plausible. O well, I'll let it go now. My rant was brought on by the talking head of a major news channel who made exactly that mistake.
 
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I love the English language precisely because it is so fluid and flexible. Depending on whether we are considering spoken language for a formal speech or a colloquial conversation, the rules are going to vary. The same variability applies to written English - in poetry there is licence that is not tolerated in a scientific report, and so on. You get my drift?

Likewise, the language varies across regions and between generations. Because of my rather formal education last century I can read Shakespeare and the King James bible with relative ease but struggle with Rabbie Burns. Most on this forum would be unable to make much sense of C J Dennis' Sentimental Bloke which was written early last century and includes a lot of antique Australian slang.

I also wince when people who should be able to speak grammatically, such as TV presenters, fail to do so. There is no excuse for them mixing up words like affect and effect, for instance. Every time they do so someone should be waiting off camera to deliver a shark rap over the knuckles. If that is too harsh then they need a great aunt like mine who, if I answered a "How are you?" greeting with "Good", would sternly comment, "I asked about your health, not your morals". She was quite the dragon and I was probably no more than nine years old.
 
Warrigal said:
I love the English language precisely because it is so fluid and flexible. Depending on whether we are considering spoken language for a formal speech or a colloquial conversation, the rules are going to vary. The same variability applies to written English - in poetry there is licence that is not tolerated in a scientific report, and so on. You get my drift?

Likewise, the language varies across regions and between generations. Because of my rather formal education last century I can read Shakespeare and the King James bible with relative ease but struggle with Rabbie Burns. Most on this forum would be unable to make much sense of C J Dennis' Sentimental Bloke which was written early last century and includes a lot of antique Australian slang.

I also wince when people who should be able to speak grammatically, such as TV presenters, fail to do so. There is no excuse for them mixing up words like affect and effect, for instance. Every time they do so someone should be waiting off camera to deliver a shark rap over the knuckles. If that is too harsh then they need a great aunt like mine who, if I answered a "How are you?" greeting with "Good", would sternly comment, "I asked about your health, not your morals". She was quite the dragon and I was probably no more than nine years old.
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You are right on the mark in everything you wrote, Warrigal. You also admonished me, without intending to do so, to be less judgmental when it comes to other folks' grammar. When someone asks me: "How are you?" I invariably reply: "Good!" Ouch. I have never heard anyone say "well" in reply. That's the truth. That's where English as a second language comes in! LOL
 
We seem to be suffering a major outbreak of the "I seen" syndrome around my little village. And it isn't just the youngsters saying that. I saw is apparently vanishing from the vernacular.
 
Old Salt said:
You are right on the mark in everything you wrote, Warrigal. You also admonished me, without intending to do so, to be less judgmental when it comes to other folks' grammar. When someone asks me: "How are you?" I invariably reply: "Good!" Ouch. I have never heard anyone say "well" in reply. That's the truth. That's where English as a second language comes in! LOL
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:giggle: Don't feel bad, Old Salt. These days when asked how I am I often reply with "I'm fine", which is an automatic response. In truth I should sometimes answer that "I am crook as Rookwood"; Rookwood being the largest necropolis in Sydney.
 
Warrigal said:
:giggle: Don't feel bad, Old Salt. These days when asked how I am I often reply with "I'm fine", which is an automatic response. In truth I should sometimes answer that "I am crook as Rookwood"; Rookwood being the largest necropolis in Sydney.
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I often say: "I am fine" as well. Which is one of the biggest lies an 83 year old could utter. But that's another subject! LOL
 
I don't ever remember hearing 'drug' as a verb in Australia. We are more likely to haul ourselves out of the pool. One of those regional differences that I referred to earlier. I am open to correction should any Aussie wish to take me to task.
 

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