Ah, those wonderful, no-class folks, and their kids.

Gary, if you are telling the truth in note #27, you are boasting about getting away with physically assaulting someone else's child. From your description, he was being a brat, but you had absolutely no right to hold him in a tight grip and begin pinching him painfully. You could have been arrested for that.

Obviously, the thing to do in a situation like that is to let the parents know (verbally, not by physically attacking them) that their kid is out of line, and they have to get him to stop kicking, or whatever he is doing, RIGHT NOW. If they don't, just walk away and end the conversation. No neighborly chats with those parents any more.
 

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Sunny said:
Gary, if you are telling the truth in note #27, you are boasting about getting away with physically assaulting someone else's child. From your description, he was being a brat, but you had absolutely no right to hold him in a tight grip and begin pinching him painfully. You could have been arrested for that.
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I've done a lot of things I coulda been arrested for
I'm the kinda guy that takes a situation in hand
That ain't gonna change
I don't walk away from anything

I'm not so into a permissive society

actually, I shoulda just beat the crap outa his ol' man
 

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I'm a bit shocked by some of the responses here. God! The lack of compassion or understanding is mind boggling. Yes, there are bratty kids everywhere whose parents are too permissive and the child's behavior suffers as a result.

But there are also children who are on the autism spectrum, or have mental or sensory or emotional challenges who sometimes become overwhelmed or over stimulated in social environments. Does that mean the child should be confined to their home, or their room, and never taken anywhere so as not to disturb anyone? The parents of those kids make difficult choices every day revolving around how much stimulus is good for their child this day, what is in the best interests of the kid right now, will this or that choice work for them, what will the day be like if I do choice A or choice B for my child...and on and on.

Corporal punishment will not solve that.

Separate from autism or other mental challenges, emotionally healthy children experience every single emotion that you as an adult feel, whether it's love or rage or frustration or happiness...every possible emotion on the spectrum, but their young, inexperienced selves have no clue how to process some of the bigger and more overwhelming emotions. It's the parent's job to help the child deal with those, not by smacking the emotion out of them, or telling them to shut up, or not taking them anywhere, but to HELP them deal! To educate them in how to process what they're feeling. And yes, certainly, remove them from the environment if they become too upset, but dammit don't remove them because they're disturbing others, as a punishment for their "behavior" like they they're doing it on purpose! They can't effing process what's happening to them, what they're feeling!! Take them away to somewhere quieter to help them deal with what they're feeling!!!

It frankly enrages me to see or hear folks who think these kids are just willful, or screaming for attention, or being "bad" ....whatever the !@#$ that means! Sure, there are kids who just blatantly misbehave. No argument. But for every one who does, there are several more who are struggling to manage the emotions that they're feeling that are too damn big for them, that they don't know what to do with or how to express or how to manage. They need tools and education, not a swift smack or your anger.

If you as an adult with your range of emotions were treated the way you're suggesting the child be treated, how would that make you feel? I'm not taking about when you were a kid and you WERE treated that way. I'm talking about now. I don't think you'd take it very well. The child who is acting out in the supermarket is feeling all the feelings YOU feel as an adult, but is woefully unprepared to deal with them.

If you want to get angry, get angry at the parent who hasn't taken the time to educate him/herself as to the best way to deal with the upset child, and so is either ignoring the kid completely because he/she doesn't know what to do, OR is just trying to shut the kid up because he/she knows people around them are going to get angry at the noise. Either response is going to make matters worse, and perpetuate the situation. Well, unless the intention is just to make a good little robot of the kid, break him. Then yeah, go ahead.

Sheesh! :mad:
 
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maybe we need to open a store for kids to run ragged in !!!!!
some children dont get discipline now ' at a young age = as long as their out of site its ok it seems -
children get bored shopping ' but I dont believe in letting a child scream around people trying to shop
think we are discussing just bad behaved kids .
 
Was standing in line at the supermarket one day. In front of me was a mother and two kids. The kids were acting wild...screaming bloody murder, hitting each other and running in and out of the line. Couldn't help notice what the woman had on the "belt". Two prescription bags and two big 5 lb bags of white sugar. Thought to myself "connect the dots lady?" Maybe?
 
Children's behaviors have become worse after Dr. Benjamin Spock's book encouraging parental permissiviness.

https://www.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20160109/OPINION/160106752
"Many of the most popular child-rearing books repeatedly urge parents to hold, soothe, comfort and talk to the child who bites, screams, throws, breaks things, or otherwise behaves in obnoxious, infantile ways. Common sense and a truckload of research argue solidly against this practice. Yet, these experts seem to be unaware of the well-established fact that children do what gets noticed, that adult attention usually makes behavior occur more likely, not less. The result is that the behaviors get worse, followed by a diagnosis and then, all often, pills."
 
Catlady said:
Children's behaviors have become worse after Dr. Benjamin Spock's book encouraging parental permissiviness.

https://www.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20160109/OPINION/160106752
"Many of the most popular child-rearing books repeatedly urge parents to hold, soothe, comfort and talk to the child who bites, screams, throws, breaks things, or otherwise behaves in obnoxious, infantile ways. Common sense and a truckload of research argue solidly against this practice. Yet, these experts seem to be unaware of the well-established fact that children do what gets noticed, that adult attention usually makes behavior occur more likely, not less. The result is that the behaviors get worse, followed by a diagnosis and then, all often, pills."
Click to expand...

Well, that's a bs blanket statement that is not backed by any research at all from everything I've been able to discern. For every child that has been soothed after an angry outburst and gone on to be an obnoxious adult, there are plenty more who have gone on to be compassionate, caring individuals who have been blessed with an emotional immune system that has helped them make the emotionally healthy transition into adulthood and are grateful for the way they were managed as children.

Azerrad's statements don't refute the kinder, gentler method of child rearing with cited research. His "research" is anecdotal based on his experience as a counselor. And while there is nothing wrong with that, he fails to address another aspect of this issue which is the argument of nature vs nurture in raising children and the behavioral outcomes.
 
My little brother used to throw a tantrum all the time in grocery stores. I can remember seeing him on the floor wailing away, thrashing his arms and legs all over the place. I can attest to the fact my mom would have beat the crap out of him -if it worked. She had no problem beating the hell out of me. But she just left him there and walked away. Once he found out he was all alone......he stopped all that stuff. That's is why I can blackmail him by not ratting him out to his kids-especially when they were young.
 
Ronni said:
I'm a bit shocked by some of the responses here. God! The lack of compassion or understanding is mind boggling. Yes, there are bratty kids everywhere whose parents are too permissive and the child's behavior suffers as a result.

But there are also children who are on the autism spectrum, or have mental or sensory or emotional challenges who sometimes become overwhelmed or over stimulated in social environments. Does that mean the child should be confined to their home, or their room, and never taken anywhere so as not to disturb anyone? The parents of those kids make difficult choices every day revolving around how much stimulus is good for their child this day, what is in the best interests of the kid right now, will this or that choice work for them, what will the day be like if I do choice A or choice B for my child...and on and on.

Corporal punishment will not solve that.

Separate from autism or other mental challenges, emotionally healthy children experience every single emotion that you as an adult feel, whether it's love or rage or frustration or happiness...every possible emotion on the spectrum, but their young, inexperienced selves have no clue how to process some of the bigger and more overwhelming emotions. It's the parent's job to help the child deal with those, not by smacking the emotion out of them, or telling them to shut up, or not taking them anywhere, but to HELP them deal! To educate them in how to process what they're feeling. And yes, certainly, remove them from the environment if they become too upset, but dammit don't remove them because they're disturbing others, as a punishment for their "behavior" like they they're doing it on purpose! They can't effing process what's happening to them, what they're feeling!! Take them away to somewhere quieter to help them deal with what they're feeling!!!

It frankly enrages me to see or hear folks who think these kids are just willful, or screaming for attention, or being "bad" ....whatever the !@#$ that means! Sure, there are kids who just blatantly misbehave. No argument. But for every one who does, there are several more who are struggling to manage the emotions that they're feeling that are too damn big for them, that they don't know what to do with or how to express or how to manage. They need tools and education, not a swift smack or your anger.

If you as an adult with your range of emotions were treated the way you're suggesting the child be treated, how would that make you feel? I'm not taking about when you were a kid and you WERE treated that way. I'm talking about now. I don't think you'd take it very well. The child who is acting out in the supermarket is feeling all the feelings YOU feel as an adult, but is woefully unprepared to deal with them.

If you want to get angry, get angry at the parent who hasn't taken the time to educate him/herself as to the best way to deal with the upset child, and so is either ignoring the kid completely because he/she doesn't know what to do, OR is just trying to shut the kid up because he/she knows people around them are going to get angry at the noise. Either response is going to make matters worse, and perpetuate the situation. Well, unless the intention is just to make a good little robot of the kid, break him. Then yeah, go ahead.

Sheesh! :mad:
Click to expand...


@Ronni I was thinking the same thing. I'll add the following - we adults don't shop longer than our tolerances can manage, nor do we press on when we're tired, thirsty, hungry or feeling unwell. Small children get dragged along with little choice in the matter, and have far fewer coping skills or abilities to manage their distress. (For example, the kid says he's hungry, parent says you can wait until we get home. Parent is hungry, they hit a fast food outlet immediately.)

When a kid is having a tantrum in a store and the parent is visibly mortified and at wits' end, I often walk over and tell them not to worry, every parent has been there, done that.

For the record, I've never seen nor heard of parents putting Coca-Cola in a baby bottle or toddler sippy cup. Most US babies are off the bottle and onto sippy cups by 18 months. Maybe it's an Aussie thing.

I've seen seniors call strangers on the carpet when a kid is having a meltdown at a McDonald's. It's freaking McDonald's, not the Ritz. Do they lecture you when you and your cronies are yelling at each other because you're hard of hearing, refuse to wear hearing aids, and are therefore shouting at each other, disturbing other patrons?

It's also pretty hilarious how marvelous we believe our own parenting was when viewed through the long lens of many intervening years. (When I was in my 30s and beyond, my mother would comment that I was a very easy child... I'd think, "If I was so easy, what was all that yelling about??") Not to mention all the wonderful advice offered by those who've never had children. Before I had kids I was an expert - once they were born, not so much.

My advice, lighten up, folks. Kids are gonna cry in public. They're not furniture.
 
Fuzzybuddy, when your mother left your hysterical little brother lying on the floor in the grocery store, screaming and thrashing his arms and legs around, I hope she at least remained nearby and kept an eye on him to be sure he wasn't abducted or worse. How would she have felt if he was out of sight, and she suddenly realized it had gone silent, and returned to get him, but he wasn't there?
 
There USED to be a saying, "Spare the rod, spoil the child".

Although using the ''rod'' is physical abuse, a good smack on the rear end (never the face, it could cause deafness) and a time-out could fix a lot of behavioral problems. I agree that, if possible, children should not be dragged along for long shopping errands. If they start misbehaving anywhere they should be removed if they are tired or hungry and their needs should be met. I can't stand brats, like Gary's leg kicker, and I blame the parents for allowing such behavior.
 
Keesha said:
And that’s the thing; we don’t know. As an observer we can only speculate. I think it’s hard being in our modern world without being judgmental. It’s impossible for me.

Autism or Tourette syndrome has symptoms like you describe. It must be so difficult caring for someone like this. What is the right thing to do?
These tiny souls need a chance to be integrated into society like anyone else.

Being a witness to some human behaviour can be startling to say the least.
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I did address it Ronni.
 
Sunny said:
Obviously, the thing to do in a situation like that is to let the parents know (verbally, not by physically attacking them) that their kid is out of line, and they have to get him to stop kicking, or whatever he is doing, RIGHT NOW. If they don't, just walk away and end the conversation. No neighborly chats with those parents any more.
Click to expand...

I do agree 100% with you that the above is what Gary should have done. But, it's not lost on me the fact that the brat did stop kicking him henceforward. The brat got the message that his victims MIGHT hurt him back. Maybe that fear might have stopped the kid from abusing other kids?
 
Keesha said:
Thanks. I stayed calm but I just finished playing saxophone for these people and this guy was my biggest fan. He sat right in front of me the entire time, complimenting me often so when this suddenly came about, it took me off guard.
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He probably had Alzheimer, they can turn on a dime. I've never met any, but my daughter told me that a friend of hers had a ALZ mother, who had been a very sweet person. Yet, she would suddenly grab her daughter's arm and bite it hard.
 
I have (mild) Tourette's. I don't scream. I can control my tics in public. Severely autistic kids need to be kept out of stores, like barking dogs. If I sound harsh, it's because I'm fed up.

Most screaming kids don't have anything wrong with them. I remember jumping out of my skin when I heard a kid scream (for fun). His grandmother looked at me with condescending patience and said, "You're not used to kids, are you?" The answer is no, I will never get used to kids who behave like that.

When I was growing up, kids did not scream like that unless they were being hurt. It's not OK. I'm with you.
 
My son never had a temper tantrum. Yes, he was born wonderful, but I was the best mother I've ever known. I let my memories of childhood, what I didn't like, and my love for him be my guide. Today, he is a wonderful son, father, husband and all around human. Best job I ever had, best job I've ever done.
 
Sunny said:
Gary, if you are telling the truth in note #27, you are boasting about getting away with physically assaulting someone else's child
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For the record; I'm no kid beater
Quite the opposite
...and not bragging
I felt a lesson was needed
The parents lived in absolute fear
This kid got to do anything and everything
...and was 'rewarded' for it all
His older brother took the brunt

No, not bragging
Simply stating what I did to alleviate the situation
I didn't run and hide

Felt my 'reward' was quite appropriate
 

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