Who says it’s hidden?
Hands up 'Who goes to church?'
- Thread starter toffee
- Start date
- Status
I have never seen it, nor have others, those who claim to have done so have an overactive imagination, imo.
And of course you are entitled to your opinion.
Reality IS individual perspective after all.
If god exists and reveals itself to some but not to others, why play stupid games and not make its presence known to all in a way which is clear to all?
Sorry but I do not have an answer to that.
If the Biblical god character exists and the deeds attributed to it are factual, it would appear to get a kick out of human suffering.
Pecos
Well-known Member
- Location
- Washington State
I think I need to start using the ignor function.
Homeschoolie
Member
- Location
- West Coast, USA
But here is part of the problem Which bible?
- The ancient early Greek and Christians writings before they were labeled Christians.
- The Pauline version, the Essenes, the Zealots, the Jewish multiple versions, the Gnostics versions, the Sadducees and Pharisees versions.
- The, early and later, Popes versions before they were called Catholics.
- Constantine's version.
- The King James rewrite by a poet to make it sound pretty.
- The Koran, Mormon, Catholic bibles. Then of course the LDS, Nag Hammadi/Dead Sea Scrolls and many others.
- Then there are the 3 dozen modern rewrites to browse through.
- Then there are the 130 writings/books that were purposely left out of the bible.
Every version leaves out whole passages, whole books, numerous verses; and adds others in just for fun
They all use different words with very different meanings. Numerous words meant one thing long ago and the same word means something totally different later on and again a different meaning in our times.
The meaning of a word in Greek, Aramaic, English, Hebrew can be and often is different
Every version rewrite puts their own spin/angle on what is being taught/emphasized and for different reasons!
Last edited:
You are a grown up man and do not need a button or function to ignore. You can do that all on your own.
Religious Faith: A belief in something that your common sense tells you it couldn't possibly have happened.
I recall an episode of "Three's Company." "Chrissy" - the blonde played by Suzanne Sommers was getting a visit from her father, who was a minister. Chrissy didn't want her father to know that she & another female roommate were living with a man (John Ritter) because he wouldn't approve. When her father found out, he threw a fit, but after he met the guy & was reassured that there was no sex going on, he was OK with it.
Someone asked him if he really believed nothing was going on. He said, "Of course I believe it. I also believe in the parting of the Red Sea."
Pecos
Well-known Member
- Location
- Washington State
You are right, of course, I was probably expressing a degree of dismay about some of the absolute views on this thread.You are a grown up man and do not need a button or function to ignore. You can do that all on your own.
What do you expect? It's a religious discussion.
TheWordIsOne
New Member
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Do I believe in God? Not in the same way that I believe that the earth's atmosphere is roughly 80% oxygen and 20% oxygen but I choose to place my trust and faith in a benevolent presence that I have experienced personally. I can tell you that that experience shook me to my core although it was in no way threatening or frightening.
Occasionally I voice my thoughts to the presence and it matters not to me that this is irrational. My image of God transcends all religious dogma but it is in the teachings of one Jesus of Nazareth that I find inspiration and a reason to commit to something much bigger than myself.
Occasionally I voice my thoughts to the presence and it matters not to me that this is irrational. My image of God transcends all religious dogma but it is in the teachings of one Jesus of Nazareth that I find inspiration and a reason to commit to something much bigger than myself.
drifter
Well-known Member
I haven’t been to a church service many years. I have always enjoyed what is referred to in my part of the world as Gospel music. The type bill Gaither has been known for. I grew up with that type of church music and I still know many of those old songs. they were the first and easiest I learned to play on a harmonica. i used to attend gospel singings and have been to some of Gaithers sing-songs. i lov that music but I differentiate it from church services. maybe I’m an oddball.
Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
- Location
- Historic Buchan, Scotland
In the absence of a god, are the teachings of Jesus any less relevant?
There is no evidence god exists let alone had intercourse with Mary to produce Jesus. Jesus said some sensible things, and some which weren't at all. But if he actually existed and was not a just created by the gospel writers, he was no more perfect than the rest of us.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Taking us off the beaten track now, for which I apologise in advance.
How do you describe mathematics - belief or fact? I'm talking about numbers of every category beyond the elementary counting numbers that we can picture as sets of stones or other concrete objects. Do we believe in irrational numbers such as pi and e because we have definitions that describe them? What about complex numbers? Can you even picture them in your mind? Do they even exist anywhere other than in our imaginations?
Yet, as difficult it is to imagine such strange, nonmaterial entities, we re happy to believe in their existence and we depend on them as we apply mathematics to the real and natural world. We have faith in the fruits of mathematics that we don't even fully understand because we experience the fruits.
It could be said that we humans created mathematics but I prefer to say numbers and mathematics has always existed because maths in the language (code) from which the universe was created and which determines everything we know about it. So, do we have faith in mathematics or do we think of it as a fact which exists whether we believe or not. Is the word mathematics a concrete or abstract noun?
To the ancient Pythagoreans numbers were divine. They worshiped them as perfect entities and sought to discover their secrets. They were fascinated by prime numbers, squares and cubes and sets of numbers that we know today as Pythagorean triads. Needless to say ancient Greeks who worshipped the Olympians found the Pythagoreans to be deluded and heretical. After all their gods were just like us only more powerful. You could easily imagine them, depict them in art and sculpture, sing songs about them and tell their stories. Their gods were much more appealing and much sexier than numbers. Pythagoreans were the weirdos and they ended up being expelled from Greece. The religion died away, but the numbers lived on.
This what happens in every religion. Something transcendent is sensed but it is indescribable. Indescribable, yet humans always try to convey the experience to others. Every religion has at its core an intangible mystery. Then, being homo sapiens, we try explain that mystery with story telling, art, music, literature and ritual. And rules, lots of rules. We codify mystery to the point of absurdity.
However, the eternal question can never be satisfactorily answered by reason alone. It can only be experienced, entered into and, like complex mathematics, accepted for the purpose of moving forward to a deeper understanding. We cannot progress very far in maths if we quickly announce it a load of bollocks and have no further interest.
Archimedes is supposed to have had a flash of insight while taking a bath. So exciting was this revelation that he ran naked through the streets of Athens shouting "Eureka" which means "I have it". The story is certainly apocryphal but the same ecstatic reaction occurs in us when we experience for ourselves the mystery at the core of the universe. Some call it God, others science and mathematics, and some of us know it as perfect love or peace and justice. All of the nouns in the latter sentence are abstract nouns that describe intangible things that we have experienced as real.
I find it valuable to keep an open mind and an open heart.
How do you describe mathematics - belief or fact? I'm talking about numbers of every category beyond the elementary counting numbers that we can picture as sets of stones or other concrete objects. Do we believe in irrational numbers such as pi and e because we have definitions that describe them? What about complex numbers? Can you even picture them in your mind? Do they even exist anywhere other than in our imaginations?
Yet, as difficult it is to imagine such strange, nonmaterial entities, we re happy to believe in their existence and we depend on them as we apply mathematics to the real and natural world. We have faith in the fruits of mathematics that we don't even fully understand because we experience the fruits.
It could be said that we humans created mathematics but I prefer to say numbers and mathematics has always existed because maths in the language (code) from which the universe was created and which determines everything we know about it. So, do we have faith in mathematics or do we think of it as a fact which exists whether we believe or not. Is the word mathematics a concrete or abstract noun?
To the ancient Pythagoreans numbers were divine. They worshiped them as perfect entities and sought to discover their secrets. They were fascinated by prime numbers, squares and cubes and sets of numbers that we know today as Pythagorean triads. Needless to say ancient Greeks who worshipped the Olympians found the Pythagoreans to be deluded and heretical. After all their gods were just like us only more powerful. You could easily imagine them, depict them in art and sculpture, sing songs about them and tell their stories. Their gods were much more appealing and much sexier than numbers. Pythagoreans were the weirdos and they ended up being expelled from Greece. The religion died away, but the numbers lived on.
This what happens in every religion. Something transcendent is sensed but it is indescribable. Indescribable, yet humans always try to convey the experience to others. Every religion has at its core an intangible mystery. Then, being homo sapiens, we try explain that mystery with story telling, art, music, literature and ritual. And rules, lots of rules. We codify mystery to the point of absurdity.
However, the eternal question can never be satisfactorily answered by reason alone. It can only be experienced, entered into and, like complex mathematics, accepted for the purpose of moving forward to a deeper understanding. We cannot progress very far in maths if we quickly announce it a load of bollocks and have no further interest.
Archimedes is supposed to have had a flash of insight while taking a bath. So exciting was this revelation that he ran naked through the streets of Athens shouting "Eureka" which means "I have it". The story is certainly apocryphal but the same ecstatic reaction occurs in us when we experience for ourselves the mystery at the core of the universe. Some call it God, others science and mathematics, and some of us know it as perfect love or peace and justice. All of the nouns in the latter sentence are abstract nouns that describe intangible things that we have experienced as real.
I find it valuable to keep an open mind and an open heart.
I really don't think you can put maths and religion in the same category. Maths makes much more sense, imo.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm!
- Status