Do NOT believe the CV19 stats!

MarciKS said:
I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right here.

I can tell you that this situation is affecting our budget and if it continues we may be looking at layoffs down the line. Some people in certain depts. of our hospital had to be laid off because their depts. had to close until this settled down.

However, I too have read that they make more money from Medicare for things but, I doubt they would be able to get away with misclassifying like you said.
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When the CDC, itself, admits, on its site, that its statistics contain "probable" Covid-19 cases, what's to stop anyone, including doctors, who have a financial stake in the game, from misclassifying admissions and deaths?

Are you thinking that some cadre of "holy doctors" roam hospital corridors, righteously testing and verifying test results to make absolutely sure that all statistics contain only "100% Certified" Covid cases?
 

treeguy64 said:
When the CDC, itself, admits, on its site, that its statistics contain "probable" Covid-19 cases, what's to stop anyone, including doctors, who have a financial stake in the game, from misclassifying admissions and deaths?
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Hospitals and clinics are all subject to federal surveyors and they have to give them all their records to be checked and then there's penalties for fraud. Most hospitals try to avoid those kinds of things.
 
Yes, and I'm sure that these overlords of professional integrity personally test each and every case that's written off as cv19. Man.........
 

Many weeks ago, I wrote that I would no longer comment on cv19. I ignored my own post, of late, because I wanted to help open the eyes of those ignoring the obvious as the same pertains to inflated reporting figures, mismanagement of medical supplies, etc.

Unfortunately, I have to admit that this issue, exactly like politics, a forbidden subject in here, bears witness to the old saw: "There are none so blind as those who will not see!"

Relax, "vision impaired" folks. I'm promising, herein, to go back to standing by my previous vow.
 
treeguy64 said:
Many weeks ago, I wrote that I would no longer comment on cv19. I ignored my own post, of late, because I wanted to help open the eyes of those ignoring the obvious as the same pertains to inflated reporting figures, mismanagement of medical supplies, etc.

Unfortunately, I have to admit that this issue, exactly like politics, a forbidden subject in here, bears witness to the old saw: "There are none so blind as those who will not see!"

Relax, "vision impaired" folks. I'm promising, herein, to go back to standing by my previous vow.
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Same here. I said I was through commenting, but, like a moth to a flame, I can't stay away. :D
 
IMO we need to take all statistics with a grain of salt.

I've been watching the figures for my county and for my state because conditions in my area of the country have the most relevance to me.

There are thousands of people across the country and the world reporting information to various agencies compiling statistics and each contributor is making certain assumptions about which box to tick on which form as they file reports.

If the grand totals reported are accurate to a plus or minus 10% it will still give us some reasonable information about the impact and trends for the virus.
 
With all the disagreements and arguing that goes on in COVID threads because certain people think they're the ones with the only viable answers, I can't believe this thread doesn't get closed.
 
Probably, on this subject everybody is right, and everybody is wrong. Assuming that none of us in the forum are in-depth experts on the subject, it's kind of amazing to me that so many are quick to assume criminal-level greed on the part of doctors, scientists, hospitals, and all the others who are fighting the disease. They are only interested in making big bucks? And there is a worldwide conspiracy to do this, by every country universally falsifying the figures? It's all lies, don't trust anything or anybody, and so on down the ever-so-familiar paranoid path? Wow.

Let's say for a moment that we are looking at insurance claims for house fires. Would all the statistics-doubters be that quick to assume "arson" and "insurance fraud" for every fire? Why are so many lemmings eager to jump into the denial cesspool on Covid-19, but not for any other medical diagnosis? The only "facts" I would trust on this would be those being stated by experts who can provide tangible proof, not "shocked" accusations.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are errors in reporting cases of the disease. How could there not be, in the middle of a crisis situation? 911 is right, it's always a good practice to rely on Snopes for the truth.
 
There are many very sick folks from Covid 19 who are not going to the ER and dying at home. In most cases their cause of death is listed as something other than Covid 19.

According to real medical pros the actual death rate in the US is probably 50% higher than what is being stated.

Keep in mind that a good statistician can take any set of data and present that data in a positive or negative manner.
 
treeguy64 said:
When the CDC, itself, admits, on its site, that its statistics contain "probable" Covid-19 cases, what's to stop anyone, including doctors, who have a financial stake in the game, from misclassifying admissions and deaths?

Are you thinking that some cadre of "holy doctors" roam hospital corridors, righteously testing and verifying test results to make absolutely sure that all statistics contain only "100% Certified" Covid cases?
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The main thing we all need to remember is this: so far the ONLY things known positively - without a doubt - as opposed to previously known viruses are:

(1) it is easier to contract
(2) is much more deadly
(3) is far more likely to leave long lasting adverse medical conditions
(4) has no respect for either age or existing health

All else is conjecture no matter who speaks it.

Everyone needs to know and understand these facts as well as the actual current infection/death rates in your own immediate area/zip code and then use their own common sense and act accordingly.
 
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lukebass said:
There are many very sick folks from Covid 19 who are not going to the ER and dying at home. In most cases their cause of death is listed as something other than Covid 19.

According to real medical pros the actual death rate in the US is probably 50% higher than what is being stated.

Keep in mind that a good statistician can take any set of data and present that data in a positive or negative manner.
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"Real medical pros?" Exactly who would that be, and can you provide a link to this valuable information?
 
Unfortunately, I have to admit that this issue, exactly like politics, a forbidden subject in here, bears witness to the old saw: "There are none so blind as those who will not see!"
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Er, yes, Treeguy. Exactly.
 
Whether or not cases and deaths are being manipulated, do not forget that doctors and hospitals are losing HUGE sums because they are not doing routine surgeries, elective surgeries, orthopediac or cardiac surgeries, complicated diagnostic procedures, or much of anything else because of fear of infection with covid. Many physicians, including specialists, are not even seeing patients in person. And some small and/or rural hospitals and clinics will end up having to close their doors because they cannot sustain themselves.
 
MarciKS said:
With all the disagreements and arguing that goes on in COVID threads because certain people think they're the ones with the only viable answers, I can't believe this thread doesn't get closed.
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Why ?? Just because something might be controversial or argumentative it shouldn't be discussed? Isn't that just a bit of a "Rose colored Glasses" approach?
 
CarolfromTX said:
Actually, I'm pretty sure the only thing we know for sure is that this virus has been hyped more than anything in history. Not saying it's not bad. Just saying that if the political climate were different, the media might have presented this in a different way.
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Exactly !!
 
Judycat said:
So what does this all boil down to for the common individual sitting around at home? Should we demand to look at the books of our local hospital? Doctor? They'll probably tell us to get lost. Then what?
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If it is on the Internet it must be true!!!
 
C'est Moi said:
I have been reading these reports for a week or so. I posted this a few days ago... not even Birx has any confidence in the numbers. https://www.yahoo.com/news/birx-said-nothing-cdc-trust-044212374.htm

Deborah Birx, the White House's coronavirus task force response coordinator, blasted the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in a White House coronavirus task force meeting during a discussion on COVID-19 data, according to The Washington Post. "There is nothing from the CDC that I can trust," she told CDC Director Robert Redfield, two people familiar with the meeting told the newspaper.

The Post reported that Birx and others feared that the CDC's statistics on mortality rate and case counts were inflated by up to 25%.
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Don't trust any of the political parties. They have politicized this CV to the hilt.
Yes doctor's are in it for the money. That's why they head for the rich cities to practice.
 
Camper6 said:
Don't trust any of the political parties. They have politicized this CV to the hilt.
Yes doctor's are in it for the money. That's why they head for the rich cities to practice.
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Well, aren't we all in it for the money (whatever "it" is to each of us)? I worked for 50+ years and certainly wasn't about to do it for free.

And we all head to where there is work, don't we? A physician is like anybody else -- he's not going to set up practice out where he has no patients or a hospital to support his patients.

Not to mention the fact that most docs are carrying a load of huge school loans and malpractice insurance.
 
Butterfly said:
Well, aren't we all in it for the money (whatever "it" is to each of us)? I worked for 50+ years and certainly wasn't about to do it for free.

And we all head to where there is work, don't we? A physician is like anybody else -- he's not going to set up practice out where he has no patients or a hospital to support his patients.

Not to mention the fact that most docs are carrying a load of huge school loans and malpractice insurance.
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Well said.
 
Butterfly said:
Well, aren't we all in it for the money (whatever "it" is to each of us)? I worked for 50+ years and certainly wasn't about to do it for free.

And we all head to where there is work, don't we? A physician is like anybody else -- he's not going to set up practice out where he has no patients or a hospital to support his patients.

Not to mention the fact that most docs are carrying a load of huge school loans and malpractice insurance.
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Yep those are the facts alright. Health care for profit.
Thanks for listening.
 

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