If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?

-Gosh Clyde, don't you just love it when others explain what you meant.
-Surly do Harold, surly do. 🤗
 

Mr. Ed said:
If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?
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@Mr.Ed, the body of your post contained numerous points, but for the sake of simplicity I'm just focusing on the thread title.

My view: the ability to love was granted to us by the Creator, we can love other humans, creatures, objects etc. Love generates good will among people, it generates "feel good" neurotransmitters and the release of endorphins in our bodies. All religion aside, we as individuals can return the love God has shown us by loving & respecting God's creatures and creation. Notice that I use the word "creation" and it's variants, as it is my firm believe that creation took place. That does not exclude "evolution", which in my mind is a means to 'update' the creation to accommodate changing environments.

So, "the purpose of religion": Religion is an effort by groups of people to make sense of the world, and as a group to pay respect to the Creator. Religion is a man-made organization, and as such is vulnerable to corruption of it's original purpose. Humans USE god and religion to control, to justify selfish actions, to attempt to elevate themselves to god-like status. Of course, not all religious groups or sub-groups are corrupt, but the potential is there.

Off topic(somewhat): Through my study of martial arts and Traditional Chinese Medicine I have heard others say that their study of Buddhism has made them better Christians, and I totally agree.
My long held opinion: I am Christian, but I can't help but think that God has sent several representatives (Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad,etc) to help different societies within the Human community understand the principals of personal conduct, that God wants us all to follow.
 
Quote:
"If love is everything, what is the purpose of religion?"

"God is Love", (this is a central belief).

It cannot be stated the other way around, i.e. "Love is God", (its doesn't hold that way around, so I'm told?).

It is fair to say therefore that love is an essential part of religion, and there are plenty of texts to show this, along the lines of: "If a man possesses all kinds of positive characteristics but does not have love, he is like an empty vessel"

Quote:
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or clanging cymbal."

"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.…"
 
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Nathan said:
@Mr.Ed, the body of your post contained numerous points, but for the sake of simplicity I'm just focusing on the thread title.

My view: the ability to love was granted to us by the Creator, we can love other humans, creatures, objects etc. Love generates good will among people, it generates "feel good" neurotransmitters and the release of endorphins in our bodies. All religion aside, we as individuals can return the love God has shown us by loving & respecting God's creatures and creation. Notice that I use the word "creation" and it's variants, as it is my firm believe that creation took place. That does not exclude "evolution", which in my mind is a means to 'update' the creation to accommodate changing environments.

So, "the purpose of religion": Religion is an effort by groups of people to make sense of the world, and as a group to pay respect to the Creator. Religion is a man-made organization, and as such is vulnerable to corruption of it's original purpose. Humans USE god and religion to control, to justify selfish actions, to attempt to elevate themselves to god-like status. Of course, not all religious groups or sub-groups are corrupt, but the potential is there.

Off topic(somewhat): Through my study of martial arts and Traditional Chinese Medicine I have heard others say that their study of Buddhism has made them better Christians, and I totally agree.
My long held opinion: I am Christian, but I can't help but think that God has sent several representatives (Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad,etc) to help different societies within the Human community understand the principals of personal conduct, that God wants us all to follow.
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That part I marked in bold (i.e. last half of last sentence) makes good sense. Where we get into trouble, is when a particular group of people decides they have a corner on the "truth market" and everybody else is wrong. That is why I highlighted that last part of the last sentence. It provides a concise means of explaining that there are many paths, rather than just one.

I have no problem with the remainder of the quoted post (in fact, it is quite good), but it was that last part that I particularly resonated with.

The only thing I can come up with to explain why various religions seem to need to make up a bunch of stuff we refer to as "dogma", rather than just stating a simple, clear, belief that people can live by, was explained in an earlier post here referring to "money and power", which seems to me to be an abuse of something that could otherwise provide a positive light in people's lives. I guess that is what happens eventually when humans are involved. :)

Even in Christianity, there are differences people come up with to divide people. For example, one group believes that unless a person is fully dunked in water, that person is not really baptized, while another counters saying that all one needs to do is sprinkle a person with water for it to count. There is a lot of this stuff that just seems to serve to divide, rather than, join people together with otherwise similar beliefs. My own view is that a lot of this stuff is petty and has no real bearing on my relationship with any "higher power".

There are well meaning, sincere folks in most any religion, and then there are those who use that religion for their own gain (i.e. a "wolf in sheep's clothing"). Unfortunately, it is the latter that seem to be the most visible, giving the others a bad name. Religions, at their best, can provide a framework for many people to live good lives. At their worst, there can be terrible abuse such as the recent terrible example that has come to light in recent years in the Catholic Church. It seems to me that, as with many things human, there are the good and the bad. It is up to us individually to seek the good and reject the bad.

Tony
 
tbeltrans said:
That part I marked in bold (i.e. last half of last sentence) makes good sense. Where we get into trouble, is when a particular group of people decides they have a corner on the "truth market" and everybody else is wrong. That is why I highlighted that last part of the last sentence. It provides a concise means of explaining that there are many paths, rather than just one.

I have no problem with the remainder of the quoted post (in fact, it is quite good), but it was that last part that I particularly resonated with.

The only thing I can come up with to explain why various religions seem to need to make up a bunch of stuff we refer to as "dogma", rather than just stating a simple, clear, belief that people can live by, was explained in an earlier post here referring to "money and power", which seems to me to be an abuse of something that could otherwise provide a positive light in people's lives. I guess that is what happens eventually when humans are involved. :)

Even in Christianity, there are differences people come up with to divide people. For example, one group believes that unless a person is fully dunked in water, that person is not really baptized, while another counters saying that all one needs to do is sprinkle a person with water for it to count. There is a lot of this stuff that just seems to serve to divide, rather than, join people together with otherwise similar beliefs. My own view is that a lot of this stuff is petty and has no real bearing on my relationship with any "higher power".

There are well meaning, sincere folks in most any religion, and then there are those who use that religion for their own gain (i.e. a "wolf in sheep's clothing"). Unfortunately, it is the latter that seem to be the most visible, giving the others a bad name. Religions, at their best, can provide a framework for many people to live good lives. At their worst, there can be terrible abuse such as the recent terrible example that has come to light in recent years in the Catholic Church. It seems to me that, as with many things human, there are the good and the bad. It is up to us individually to seek the good and reject the bad.

Tony
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Well, gee, I got the full dunked into the water. I would have been ok with the sprinkles, but after waiting so long to be baptized I guess I needed to be squeaky clean.

I fought joining a religion for almost half my life. After all, JC destroyed the temple and preached on top of the mountain in the open air and that was good enough for me. But I finally joined, had to take the kiddies somewhere else on Sunday. They might have started to think movies were a religion.

I became CATHOLIC. Yupers.

The abuses of the authorities of Catholic Church can be traced back to the beginning of the church to the present to time. But I sense @tbeltrans, that you speak only of the abuses of several priests upon children. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.

Unfortunately, sexual predators commonly join organizations that allow them access to children. The Boy Scouts of America come to mind, touted to be a somewhat christian organization, but tainted none the less.

A better example, in my opinion, of the failure of the Catholic Church, would be it’s actions in WWII. The Church failed the Jewish people in too many ways to mention. The Vatican holds many treasures given to the Church for sale keeping, that they are still “keeping safe”.

Since you mentioned my money and power statement, when talking about your perceived failure of the Catholic religion, the failure of the Vatican to return these treasures to their rightful owners would have made a better example, IMO.

But allow me to go a step further, a personal step further. My father was, later in life, a Baptist preacher. He was on marriage 7, I think. When he became a preacher, he became a pedophile. Pedophiles are preachers, priests, teaches, social workers, and on and on and on. Pedophiles are believers and non-believers. They are in every walk of life. They are not limited to the Catholic Church or the Catholic religion, just saying.
 
Aneeda72 said:
Well, gee, I got the full dunked into the water. I would have been ok with the sprinkles, but after waiting so long to be baptized I guess I needed to be squeaky clean.

I fought joining a religion for almost half my life. After all, JC destroyed the temple and preached on top of the mountain in the open air and that was good enough for me. But I finally joined, had to take the kiddies somewhere else on Sunday. They might have started to think movies were a religion.

I became CATHOLIC. Yupers.

The abuses of the authorities of Catholic Church can be traced back to the beginning of the church to the present to time. But I sense @tbeltrans, that you speak only of the abuses of several priests upon children. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.

Unfortunately, sexual predators commonly join organizations that allow them access to children. The Boy Scouts of America come to mind, touted to be a somewhat christian organization, but tainted none the less.

A better example, in my opinion, of the failure of the Catholic Church, would be it’s actions in WWII. The Church failed the Jewish people in too many ways to mention. The Vatican holds many treasures given to the Church for sale keeping, that they are still “keeping safe”.

Since you mentioned my money and power statement, when talking about your perceived failure of the Catholic religion, the failure of the Vatican to return these treasures to their rightful owners would have made a better example, IMO.

But allow me to go a step further, a personal step further. My father was, later in life, a Baptist preacher. He was on marriage 7, I think. When he became a preacher, he became a pedophile. Pedophiles are preachers, priests, teaches, social workers, and on and on and on. Pedophiles are believers and non-believers. They are in every walk of life. They are not limited to the Catholic Church or the Catholic religion, just saying.
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I was raised a Catholic and spent all but one year of school from first through 8th grade in it. I feel very fortunate that I was not among those abused.

Yes, I am well aware of the abusive history of the Catholic Church. The indulgences are particularly interesting due to the dichotomy between what we were taught in school and what I found out much later in life, and yes, you are correct that I was speaking only of the abuses of the boys that came to light in recent years rather than going into the entire history. hat would have been far too long a post. :)

I am also aware of the abuses in other organizations, but the thread was about religion, of which I don't believe Boy Scouts necessarily are a part of. I could be wrong since I was never a Boy Scout. I agree with, and acknowledge, your point about sexual predators joining organizations for access to children. That is a much wider scope than specifically religion that was being discussed, but still very true to the best of my knowledge.

When referring to your statement about money and power, I was agreeing and meant it to refer to religion in general, rather than specifically Catholicism, though where I mentioned in my post may well have led to that interpretation.

Regarding the Jewish people, one of my younger brothers delved into our family history with DNA and the whole bit, and discovered that we are really Jewish. He traced our family on my mother's side back several generations (5, I believe) and all through the mothers, it was Jewish right down the line). Apparently, among those who were fortunate enough to escape Hitler and come to the US and came through Ellis Island, there were many who stayed in New York and married Catholics. My grandmother on my mother's side did that, and that is how we ended up being raised Catholic. I don't believe any of us kids remained with the Catholic Church, but my mother did until she got so disgusted at how the Catholic Church handled that whole priest abuse issue and finally left the Church a couple of years ago.

Yes, I fully agree with your last paragraph. My last paragraph in the post you quoted, I said:

At their worst, there can be terrible abuse such as the recent terrible example that has come to light in recent years in the Catholic Church.

I chose my wording on purpose: "such as the recent terrible example", meaning that my mention of that specific situation is merely an example of abuse, not that it is the only example, nor that the Catholic Church stands alone in this sort of problem. I do choose my wording on purpose. So I was saying, in a different manner, pretty much what you are saying, so we are in agreement and full realization of the nature of the problem.

Tony
 
tbeltrans said:
I was raised a Catholic and spent all but one year of school from first through 8th grade in it. I feel very fortunate that I was not among those abused.

Yes, I am well aware of the abusive history of the Catholic Church. The indulgences are particularly interesting due to the dichotomy between what we were taught in school and what I found out much later in life, and yes, you are correct that I was speaking only of the abuses of the boys that came to light in recent years rather than going into the entire history. hat would have been far too long a post. :)

I am also aware of the abuses in other organizations, but the thread was about religion, of which I don't believe Boy Scouts necessarily are a part of. I could be wrong since I was never a Boy Scout. I agree with, and acknowledge, your point about sexual predators joining organizations for access to children. That is a much wider scope than specifically religion that was being discussed, but still very true to the best of my knowledge.

When referring to your statement about money and power, I was agreeing and meant it to refer to religion in general, rather than specifically Catholicism, though where I mentioned in my post may well have led to that interpretation.

Regarding the Jewish people, one of my younger brothers delved into our family history with DNA and the whole bit, and discovered that we are really Jewish. He traced our family on my mother's side back several generations (5, I believe) and all through the mothers, it was Jewish right down the line). Apparently, among those who were fortunate enough to escape Hitler and come to the US and came through Ellis Island, there were many who stayed in New York and married Catholics. My grandmother on my mother's side did that, and that is how we ended up being raised Catholic. I don't believe any of us kids remained with the Catholic Church, but my mother did until she got so disgusted at how the Catholic Church handled that whole priest abuse issue and finally left the Church a couple of years ago.

Yes, I fully agree with your last paragraph. My last paragraph in the post you quoted, I said:

At their worst, there can be terrible abuse such as the recent terrible example that has come to light in recent years in the Catholic Church.

I chose my wording on purpose: "such as the recent terrible example", meaning that my mention of that specific situation is merely an example of abuse, not that it is the only example, nor that the Catholic Church stands alone in this sort of problem. I do choose my wording on purpose. So I was saying, in a different manner, pretty much what you are saying, so we are in agreement and full realization of the nature of the problem.

Tony
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Almost in agreement. 😂. I believe all religions are money and power, but not all religions have the issues of the Catholic Church. Non-christian religions certainly have power and money issues. Religion is simply not needed by anyone but children to guide them in their early years.

Btw, how many boys were molested by priests and how many were not? I think you will find the numbers not molested were far greater than the numbers that were molested. I don’t think you were lucky. I don’t think the molested boys were unlucky. I do think that shit happens.
 
Aneeda72 said:
Almost in agreement. 😂. I believe all religions are money and power, but not all religions have the issues of the Catholic Church. Non-christian religions certainly have power and money issues. Religion is simply not needed by anyone but children to guide them in their early years.

Btw, how many boys were molested by priests and how many were not? I think you will find the numbers not molested were far greater than the numbers that were molested. I don’t think you were lucky. I don’t think the molested boys were unlucky. I do think that shit happens.
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"Lucky" can be used as a turn of phrase. I can rephrase to meet your response: I am grateful that I was not among those who were molested.

I can't make a blanket statement about "all religions" because, as I have said many times, I don't know what I don't know. There are many religions, and I have probably not heard of many more than I do know about. Among those I do know exist, I am sure I know very little about most of them.

If we continue trying, I think we will eventually learn how each other writes, and be able to more accurately interpret what each is saying. In my experience, some people seem to more easily understand each other's intentions and meanings, while others seem to need a bit more effort. It involves both parties, rather than one or the other, which is why I refer to "we", rather than pointing a finger at "you".

Tony
 
tbeltrans said:
"Lucky" can be used as a turn of phrase. I can rephrase to meet your response: I am grateful that I was not among those who were molested.

I can't make a blanket statement about "all religions" because, as I have said many times, I don't know what I don't know. There are many religions, and I have probably not heard of many more than I do know about. Among those I do know exist, I am sure I know very little about most of them.

If we continue trying, I think we will eventually learn how each other writes, and be able to more accurately interpret what each is saying. In my experience, some people seem to more easily understand each other's intentions and meanings, while others seem to need a bit more effort. It involves both parties, rather than one or the other, which is why I refer to "we", rather than pointing a finger at "you".

Tony
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🤓
 
asp3 said:
I think that organized religion evolved as a way to control others. Before that I think that religion was a way to explain the world. The myths from the first reason for religion were incorporated into organized religion.
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After belonging to and leaving many organized religions in my life, this is the conclusion I have come to also. Religion is used to control the behavior of others. A relationship with God can take place anywhere. It's precious and private and just as valid. Maybe more so.

Perhaps I'm more spiritual than conventionally religious.
 
I had a preacher at a baptist church that used to come to my place of work to see if I was coming to church. He didn't come back after my 5' tall boss got done with him. LOL
 
Mr. Ed said:
I am confused; what is the real purpose of religion? Does religion lay the foundation for a personal relationship with God, in the Christian faith Jesus forgives sin thereby purifies the soul for God to live within you.

I've wondered if there are other ways to achieve the same outcome as in Christianity? Chances are, I can never prove or disprove this notion because is set as is, therefore to be reborn in different lifetime would mean giving up my present understanding of life and religion and start over again. To what end, I do not know.

I support the theory of the Law of Attraction based on personal experience, Karma is a fact life. Is Karma only true for humans, not plants or animals? Having the ability to make choices in our daily life establishes preferences between what we want and don't our lives to be.

By nature, there is an exchange of positive and negative energy, a sort of radar, that attracts us to people and circumstances we want to be a part of. The opposite is also true, we may think we want something, but if the chemistry isn't right it may not be the right time or never at all.

Positivity attracts negative people and circumstances like a shining light in darkness. Negative people latch onto naturally positive people because it makes them feel good. There is nothing wrong with this, it's the way the world works by sharing and being part of it all.

The world is life and life is the world. The machine is life in conjunction with the world carry out specific tasks when prompted by circumstance that include the beginning and ending of life, natural disasters, sunny days, rainy days, the seasons, fire, global warming, love, violence everything that happens in life the world as a machine compensates and restores balance.
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I am a Christian and have read the Bible a few times. I pray to God and I go to church on a regular basis. Once you make up your mind to accept Jesus as your Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you as a compass and helps guide you through life. I have to stay in the Bible every morning by listening to a pastor (David Jeremiah) on tv and reading a little of the Word. Starting your day off that way will greatly improve your life. I believe that every person choses what they want to live by. I chose God and the Bible. It works for me, he has done wondrous things in my life and I could go on and on. But, I respect everyone's right to decide what they want to live by or believe in.
 
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