Male and Female

I love all these new ideas.... particular, I love gender reveal parties young couple have to reveal the sex of unborn child. It is pink for a girl, and blue for a boy.
 

asp3 said:
It's most likely that when you were in school homosexuality was still considered a form of mental illness.

We can't be sure that anyone who committed suicide before we had the vocabulary of gender awareness didn't commit suicide for those reasons but wasn't able to express them because they didn't know how to describe what they were experiencing. It might be that they described themselves as being crazy because they didn't feel like they were supposed to feel. Thus your "not in their right minds" might have been a term to describe non-conventional gender awareness.

I do agree that awareness might lead some people to try things they might not have chosen to try in an earlier time period. However I don't see that as a bad thing. If they are aware that they have some interest in something that isn't "normal" as long as it isn't harmful to themselves or others I think they should be able to investigate their interests.
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Tourette Syndrome was also considered mental illness back in the early days. Now it's a neurological disorder and the minute someone cusses someone else pops off and says "oh you must have Tourette's." and everyone has a good laugh. so i understand about stereotyping and i know what it's like to be bullied and made fun of your whole life. raising awareness hasn't done anything except make matters worse. there's just times when some things should be left alone and times when some things should be handled in private. and johnny and jane should be taught to be nice to others regardless of how they are different. that should have been done since the beginning of time. we wouldn't be in this pickle of hate crimes and stereotyping if our mothers would've told us to shut up and play nice as kids. again...jmo.

when i said not in their right minds i meant that they would commit suicide if not in their right minds but that i hadn't heard of anyone killing themselves because they weren't in the right body.
 
This is a teeny bit off the subject, but think how much easier it would be if we just got rid of the archaic terms "husband" and "wife," and just said, "spouse" for both genders. I mean everybody, not just people in gay marriages.

Husband and Wife were pretty hip in Shakespeare's time; it's time to give those terms a rest.
 

Aneeda72 said:
WHAT? Wow, you are terribly out of touch with the life of a disabled person. I am sorry, you are wrong wrong wrong. Children and adults with disabilities are marginalized, ridiculed, bullied, pushed to the side of our society, and killed before and after birth.

I have seen disabled children and adults abused by the people who are paid to care for them, just as the elderly are. The majority of the disabled are poor, uncared for, and dumped into group homes, nursing homes, state hospitals, jails, and prisons on a daily basis. In many of those facilities they are abused, stolen from, raped, starved, and live in constant fear.

The stories I could tell. Disabled people don’t need or want sympathy. @Ronni

Here‘s is one. A beautiful baby boy born at the university hospital. He was born dead. He had an extremely large head, a commonly known condition know as water on the brain, sorry forget the medical name. His mother had to have a c section, baby's head was so large.

The doctor was supposed to leave him dead. The parents were clear. The doctor resuscitated the baby. Now the parents have a live baby. Immediately, the baby is put up for adoption. Immediately, the parents sue that doctor for wrongful life. They won. Where was that wonderful support you speak of? Where was he treasured?

Turns out that baby was a brain stem baby. Matthew Frank was born without a brain, just a fluid filled skull. He was born only with a brain stem. Early on it was discovered, in the hospital, that he had had a gram negative infection which harmed the brain stem.

Without a brain he could not hear or see or comprehend, with a damaged brain stem things were grim. But even with a large head and tiny body he was beautiful. Blonde hair and blue eyes and I remember when the adoption agency called and asked if we would take him. Sure. We named him Matthew Frank. We never finalized the adoption. He died at 12 months. He was greatly loved.
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.........aaaaand you completely missed the entire point of my post. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Maybe because I didn't make it very well. 🥴

Society at large accepts kids born with physical or mental disabilities. Depending on one's life view, they're part of God's plan or the biology went wrong somewhere, or they the Mom ate the wrong things while she was pregnant....whatever. The FACT of those disabilities are accepted as an anomaly of one kind or another in the human genome. And there are countless easily recognized organizations to support those kids and families. March of Dimes, Special Olympics, Ronald McDonald, Make a Wish....there are just a few I can think of without even trying.

On the OTHER hand, children born with gender dysmorphia are too often ridiculed, marginalized, treated with disgust, disrespected.....I mean, look at some of the comments on this thread alone. This forum is a well represented microcosm of the macrocosm of society, and represents the divergence of views in society, on ANY subject.

There is very little societal acceptance of gender dysmorphia as simply one more disability, not the way there is of many other children's disabilities, which are supported by well known organizations like the ones I've mentioned above, plus many others.
 
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Sunny said:
This is a teeny bit off the subject, but think how much easier it would be if we just got rid of the archaic terms "husband" and "wife," and just said, "spouse" for both genders. I mean everybody, not just people in gay marriages.

Husband and Wife were pretty hip in Shakespeare's time; it's time to give those terms a rest.
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so now you want them to say i now pronounce you spouse and spouse at the wedding? :confused:
 
Ronni said:
.........aaaaand you completely missed the entire point of my post. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Maybe because I didn't make it very well. 🥴

Society at large accepts kids born with physical or mental disabilities. Depending on one's life view, they're part of God's plan or the biology went wrong somewhere, or they the Mom ate the wrong things while she was pregnant....whatever. The FACT of those disabilities are accepted as an anomaly of one kind or another in the human genome. And there are countless easily recognized organizations to support those kids and families. March of Dimes, Special Olympics, Ronald McDonald, Make a Wish....there are just a few I can think of without even trying.

On the OTHER hand, children born with gender dysmorphia are too often ridiculed, marginalized, treated with disgust, disrespected.....I mean, look at some of the comments on this thread alone. This forum is a well represented microcosm of the macrocosm of society, and represents the divergence of views in society, on ANY subject.

There is very little societal acceptance of gender dysmorphia as simply one more disability, not the way there is of many other children's disabilities, which are supported by well known organizations like the ones I've mentioned above, plus many others.
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Ronni i also don't recall seeing a lot of media on all this either. yes I've seen the March of Dimes and all that but the media hasn't made it into a spectacle. A freak show if you will. now a days the media latches on to just about everything and tries to present it to the public as awareness but i think what it does is it adds fuel to the fire.
 
Ronni said:
Why, then, should a gender dysmorphia be any different? How come it's fine to support and encourage and empathize with the families who are dealing with all those situations I mentioned with their kids, but let a child be born with the physiological equipment that determines that they're of one sex, but their brains and hearts and minds all let them know in every possible way that they're NOT that...how come they are marginalized, ridiculed, preached to, condemned for that?
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Why is it different? Fear. Because a lot of people are secretly terrified that it defines themselves.

So many preachers and government leaders who've made "deviant" sexual behavior the cornerstone of their platforms are then caught engaging in the very kind of behavior they've loudly railed against as sinful. (Of course, they follow up with tearful apologies, beg God's and the public's forgiveness while blaming Satan...)

The more publicly homophobic a person is, the more I suspect that person is nursing, hiding, or denying that very proclivity. "Me thinks thou doth protest too" much kind of thing.
 
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MarciKS said:
johnny and jane should be taught to be nice to others regardless of how they are different.

when i said not in their right minds i meant that they would commit suicide if not in their right minds but that i hadn't heard of anyone killing themselves because they weren't in the right body.
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I agree completely we should be teaching more acceptance and understanding at all levels of children getting direction from adults. The adults should also be showing more acceptance and understanding to be good examples for their children. When a parent, teacher, religious leader or political leader denigrates, teases or talks negatively about others based on their orientation, race, religion, country of origin, etc... they are giving their children an example of thinking less of others and not showing acceptance and understanding.

The point I was trying to make about "in their right minds" was that without the context of knowing that some people do not feel like they are in the right body or they didn't know that sometimes people are physically attracted to members of their own sex the people might have felt they were in their right minds and that might have driven them to suicide.
 
Ronni said:
.........aaaaand you completely missed the entire point of my post. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Maybe because I didn't make it very well. 🥴

Society at large accepts kids born with physical or mental disabilities. Depending on one's life view, they're part of God's plan or the biology went wrong somewhere, or they the Mom ate the wrong things while she was pregnant....whatever. The FACT of those disabilities are accepted as an anomaly of one kind or another in the human genome. And there are countless easily recognized organizations to support those kids and families. March of Dimes, Special Olympics, Ronald McDonald, Make a Wish....there are just a few I can think of without even trying.

On the OTHER hand, children born with gender dysmorphia are too often ridiculed, marginalized, treated with disgust, disrespected.....I mean, look at some of the comments on this thread alone. This forum is a well represented microcosm of the macrocosm of society, and represents the divergence of views in society, on ANY subject.

There is very little societal acceptance of gender dysmorphia as simply one more disability, not the way there is of many other children's disabilities, which are supported by well known organizations like the ones I've mentioned above, plus many others.
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No, I understood your point. That’s why I said you are wrong, and you are still wrong. Society, in general, does not include people with disabilities. The organizations you speak of are supported and pretty much run by people who have disabilities or disabled family members.

How many disabled people do you see working at Walmart? Or your local grocery store? At the movie theater? Vs how many non disabled people in your area or places you vacation? How many did you see working on your honeymoon? How many disabled people do you personally know? If they disabled have main stream jobs, they are for the most part, working in the back rooms not in the front.

Have you ever been to a restaurant where a disabled person, in a wheelchair, is seating and the waitress is yelling at him or any elderly person. Because it is assumed these people can not hear. I hear fine, btw. I am sorry but you simply do not know what you are talking about. IMO, of course. You know, I am the person who has 4 living disabled children and 3 dead disabled children.

Another story which represents society‘s view of a disabled baby: I lived one mile from where this event happened.

Their baby was born with Downs Syndrome. They claimed he was hard to feed and when found he was pretty much starved. I guess they got tired of his crying, due to hunger and on trash collection day they threw him, alive, into the trash can.

A neighbor took her trash can to the curb. She heard a soft mewing sound and thought someone had thrown a kitten away. She opened the lid, thinking to rescue the kitten. She found a starving baby. 😭. The baby died.

The parents were charged with murder. They were not convicted. Some of what the judge said was that the parents had “suffered enough”. I suppose having a disabled child is a great burden to some. The thing is children with Down’s syndrome are highly sought after in the adoption community. I would have adopted that baby.
 
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I have a friend who is intersex (used to be termed hermaphrodite). Her mother never told her and i don't know if surgery was done when she was a child but she found out after trying to have children that she was born with two sets of *******s. In those cases, usually the parents choose what sex and surgery is performed a young age. So would she have been considered the 3rd sex? When my son was about 8 (44 years ago), he had to have minor surgery and was in the pediatric ward. There was a baby who was born with two sets of *******s; I heard the nurses talking about it.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
I have a friend who is intersex (used to be termed hermaphrodite). Her mother never told her and i don't know if surgery was done when she was a child but she found out after trying to have children that she was born with two sets of *******s. In those cases, usually the parents choose what sex and surgery is performed a young age. So would she have been considered the 3rd sex? When my son was about 8 (44 years ago), he had to have minor surgery and was in the pediatric ward. There was a baby who was born with two sets of *******s; I heard the nurses talking about it.
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What a dilemma for parents. Can't even imagine trying to figure out the best path to choose.
 
StarSong said:
Do you think people are uncomfortable with husband and husband, wife and wife, or husband and wife?
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I am uncomfortable with "husband" in general, though in my 54 years of marriage, of course that was how I referred to my er, spouse. The word means "master of the house" and has connotations of being frugal with resources, or animal husbandry. It just has an archaic sound to it.

So it isn't the "husband and husband" part of it, it's the word itself. I like Jules' suggestion in #168.
 
Funny, but wife and I both think of each other as the "in-charge" person. There are those that wonder why my wife has to be on our boat when it goes out on the water or why she has to be with me whenever I go to the shooting range. Well, she is a very good boat person, helps launch/retrieve it. As far as the range goes, she has her own S&M 9mm handgun and Ruger .22 rifle that she loves shooting.

I'm her husband and she is my wife.
 
Actually, we made kind of a joke out of the word. Once, I accidentally mispronounced it as "hubsin," and from then on, whenever the word came up, we would say it that way.

But of course, that isn't what this thread is about, is it? The OP is bemoaning the fact that schools (what grade, what kind of schools?) are supposedly teaching that there are six sexes. As I pointed out above, there are two genders, other than biological abnormalities, but many more than six sexual orientations.

The rabbis who wrote the Old Testament did their best, but that was thousands of years ago, and a lot less was known about the human condition. The fact that something was not mentioned in the Bible does not mean it doesn't exist.
 
Aneeda72 said:
No, I understood your point. That’s why I said you are wrong, and you are still wrong. Stop drinking the PR Kool aid. Society, in general, does not include people with disabilities. The organizations you speak of are supported and pretty much run by people who have disabilities or disabled family members.

How many disabled people do you see working at Walmart? Or your local grocery store? At the movie theater? Vs how many non disabled people in your area or places you vacation? How many did you see working on your honeymoon? How many disabled people do you personally know? If they disabled have main stream jobs, they are for the most part, working in the back rooms not in the front.

Have you ever been to a restaurant where a disabled person, in a wheelchair, is seating and the waitress is yelling at him or any elderly person. Because it is assumed these people can not hear. I hear fine, btw. I am sorry but you simply do not know what you are talking about. IMO, of course. You know, I am the person who has 4 living disabled children and 3 dead disabled children.

Another story which represents society‘s view of a disabled baby: I lived one mile from where this event happened.

Their baby was born with Downs Syndrome. They claimed he was hard to feed and when found he was pretty much starved. I guess they got tired of his crying, due to hunger and on trash collection day they threw him, alive, into the trash can.

A neighbor took her trash can to the curb. She heard a soft mewing sound and thought someone had thrown a kitten away. She opened the lid, thinking to rescue the kitten. She found a starving baby. 😭. The baby died.

The parents were charged with murder. They were not convicted. Some of what the judge said was that the parents had “suffered enough”. I suppose having a disabled child is a great burden to some. The thing is children with Down’s syndrome are highly sought after in the adoption community. I would have adopted that baby.
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No, you're the one who didn't understand. But I'll attribute that to my inability to make my point. I'll take another run at it when I'm not so tired.

Please. Don't insult me with the KoolAid comment. I don't deserve it.
 

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