Who Won't Opt For The Vaccine

OneEyedDiva said:
As of now, it's my intention not to take it but maybe that will change. I know I won't be rushing out to get it. My doctor said he wouldn't consider getting a rushed vaccine even though his brother was dreadfully sick with COVID back in the summer. I saw on the news that many people don't trust because they feel vaccine production is being politicized.

Qantas airline CEO is considering not allowing anyone who hasn't been vaccinated to fly internationally.
https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michae...-19-vaccine-fly-internationally-its-necessity
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The trouble is, if vaccine production is being politicized, so is anti-vaccine propaganda. This disease has become politicized to an extent that I have never heard of, with any other disease. And political propaganda is shameless. It will appropriate any subject it thinks it can use to advance its objectives.

For those who are so leery about this vaccine, I wonder: were you that cautious and fearful about the vaccines for any other disease? If you got a deep puncture wound from a rusty nail, before you got a tetanus shot in the ER, would you consult everybody you know on the subject?

Last year, my doctor recommended a new type of pneumonia vaccine that is apparently much more effective than the old ones. I got the shot immediately, as I trust his judgement.

This year, it was the new type of shingles vaccine, Shingrix. It requires two shots, a few months apart. Again, I followed his advice. No side effects from any of those shots.

So, when the time comes that the Covid vaccine is available, if my doctor recommends getting it, should I be dancing around all over the place, studying what all the news media have to say about it, making sure I have an adequate mix of conservative vs. liberal media, consulting with the politicians I am most in tune with, seeing what my friends on social media (like this one) have to say .....

or, just get the damn vaccine, as I would against any other disease that probably has me in its crosshairs?
 

Sunny said:
The trouble is, if vaccine production is being politicized, so is anti-vaccine propaganda. This disease has become politicized to an extent that I have never heard of, with any other disease. And political propaganda is shameless. It will appropriate any subject it thinks it can use to advance its objectives.

For those who are so leery about this vaccine, I wonder: were you that cautious and fearful about the vaccines for any other disease? If you got a deep puncture wound from a rusty nail, before you got a tetanus shot in the ER, would you consult everybody you know on the subject?

Last year, my doctor recommended a new type of pneumonia vaccine that is apparently much more effective than the old ones. I got the shot immediately, as I trust his judgement.

This year, it was the new type of shingles vaccine, Shingrix. It requires two shots, a few months apart. Again, I followed his advice. No side effects from any of those shots.

So, when the time comes that the Covid vaccine is available, if my doctor recommends getting it, should I be dancing around all over the place, studying what all the news media have to say about it, making sure I have an adequate mix of conservative vs. liberal media, consulting with the politicians I am most in tune with, seeing what my friends on social media (like this one) have to say .....

or, just get the damn vaccine, as I would against any other disease that probably has me in its crosshairs?
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There is a big difference in former vaccines and this one

Those you mentioned took years to develop and study for their safety.

So naturally some of us are concerned.
 

I am "concerned" also, Becky, and will not dive into anything that's suicidal. People who are concerned (and not following politically-led imperatives) still make the bulk of their decisions based on what science, and their trusted medical professionals, tell them.

As my doctor is widely respected, and extremely sensible about the things he suggests, I trust him to make sensible recommendations. If a drug has not been adequately tested, is being hastily manufactured, etc., he will not recommend it. If the possible side effects will be a danger to me, he will tell me about them. A certain amount of trust does come in.
 
Sunny said:
I am "concerned" also, Becky, and will not dive into anything that's suicidal. People who are concerned (and not following politically-led imperatives) still make the bulk of their decisions based on what science, and their trusted medical professionals, tell them.

As my doctor is widely respected, and extremely sensible about the things he suggests, I trust him to make sensible recommendations. If a drug has not been adequately tested, is being hastily manufactured, etc., he will not recommend it. If the possible side effects will be a danger to me, he will tell me about them. A certain amount of trust does come in.
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My post wasn't intended to imply you were not concerned, it was general in the reasoning for some to be skeptical.

Each person has to weigh their risks, concerns and go from there.

Do I be first in line? Wait a month? 2 months? 3 or more months? Never get it?

I never try to tell anyone what to do, I just give my opinions and thoughts on subjects. And depending on information that changes daily so do my thoughts LOL.

No one should be basing their decisions on masks, vaccines based on their political party. That's just plain stupidity. Yet here we are due to that stupidity. šŸ˜§
 
Since I've had the virus, I'm in no hurry to get the vaccine. Not sure I even need to get it. I'm continually researching to find info on immunity for people who've had it. Still haven't found anything conclusive. Lots of Could be's and should be's regarding immunity but nothing concrete.
 
Furryanimal said:
I will not be at the front of the queue.I want to be certain it is safe.I had a bad reaction to a vaccine as a kid which left me unable to walk for several days.I canā€™t remember what it was for but Iā€™m concerned.Iā€™ve never had a flu jab because of that.
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Interesting. Maybe we had the same shot?

I had some sort of shot while in the military - -mid 50's. Of all the members of the ship's crew, I was the only one left with a bad reaction. Joints froze up and I had to be carted off to the hospital in an ambulance.

Can't recall what the shot was for but it took 5 or 6 days before I was released back to the ship. No after effects and I've had shingles, flu, pneumonia, tetanus shots, etc., throughout the rest of my life without any ill effects.

i'll take the new shots when advised by my doc.
 
Sunny said:
I am "concerned" also, Becky, and will not dive into anything that's suicidal. People who are concerned (and not following politically-led imperatives) still make the bulk of their decisions based on what science, and their trusted medical professionals, tell them.

As my doctor is widely respected, and extremely sensible about the things he suggests, I trust him to make sensible recommendations. If a drug has not been adequately tested, is being hastily manufactured, etc., he will not recommend it. If the possible side effects will be a danger to me, he will tell me about them. A certain amount of trust does come in.
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Good point; you just described the Covid vaccine - which "has not been adequately tested & is hastily manufactured."
If your doctor recommends it anyway, I'd ask him why.
 
win231 said:
Good point; you just described the Covid vaccine - which "has not been adequately tested & is hastily manufactured."
If your doctor recommends it anyway, I'd ask him why.
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And you know this how, Win? Should I trust your speculations on a public forum, open to every crackpot idea that is being spread, over the advice of a top-notch medical professional who knows and cares about me? And just FYI, when I asked him when he thought a vaccine would be available, he said probably not until next summer. So he's hardly rushing in to push it!

Having said that, I will agree that the testing for this has been quicker than usual, largely because the danger to every person on the planet is greater than what we usually live with. You say the vaccine has not been adequately tested (and there are at least three different ones in the running), well, how much is "adequately?" Do you know? Is "adequately" the same for ordinary drugs against minor, everyday ailments, as it is for a gruesome pandemic which is snuffing out thousands of lives daily? Do you know enough about the testing and manufacture of any of these three vaccines to be making statements about how inferior these practices are? What are your sources?

Yes, there is always a certain crossover between possible risk and probable benefit. Obviously, the higher the risk level, the less likely that the vaccine will be disseminated, or that people will take it. As much as some on this forum dislike and mistrust the drug industry, I doubt that most of us think that they are actively trying to kill as many people as possible.

And instead of, God forbid, assigning any noble motives to the drug companies, I'll add this: What about the risk to them from possible lawsuits if they release a drug too soon? Don't you think they are aware of that?
 
StarSong said:
Why? So that this virus can be stopped, that's why. Or do people want to live like this for several more years until herd immunity kicks in or the virus morphs into a less dangerous version.
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Herd immunity would have kicked in already after nearly a year, but it's compromised by lockdowns and masks etc. because as soon as the case numbers go up, they just lock everything down again. For herd immunity to be effective you have to be out with people daily and exposed so that your immune system can fight it.

Since 9 months of lockdowns, curfews, mask mandates and social distancing are clearly not working, not just in the USA but globally, I think the experts need to find another solution to this virus problem.
 
Sunny said:
And you know this how, Win? Should I trust your speculations on a public forum, open to every crackpot idea that is being spread, over the advice of a top-notch medical professional who knows and cares about me? And just FYI, when I asked him when he thought a vaccine would be available, he said probably not until next summer. So he's hardly rushing in to push it!

Having said that, I will agree that the testing for this has been quicker than usual, largely because the danger to every person on the planet is greater than what we usually live with. You say the vaccine has not been adequately tested (and there are at least three different ones in the running), well, how much is "adequately?" Do you know? Is "adequately" the same for ordinary drugs against minor, everyday ailments, as it is for a gruesome pandemic which is snuffing out thousands of lives daily? Do you know enough about the testing and manufacture of any of these three vaccines to be making statements about how inferior these practices are? What are your sources?

Yes, there is always a certain crossover between possible risk and probable benefit. Obviously, the higher the risk level, the less likely that the vaccine will be disseminated, or that people will take it. As much as some on this forum dislike and mistrust the drug industry, I doubt that most of us think that they are actively trying to kill as many people as possible.

And instead of, God forbid, assigning any noble motives to the drug companies, I'll add this: What about the risk to them from possible lawsuits if they release a drug too soon? Don't you think they are aware of that?
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https://www.historyofvaccines.org/i...es/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation

And, no, drug companies are not concerned about the risk of possible lawsuits because their profit is so great, they can easily afford to pay out.
One of the drug companies that caused the Opioid problem - Perdue had no problem paying an 8 billion dollar fine.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/oxycontin-maker-purdue-pharma-guilty-plea-opioid-settlement
 
chic said:
Herd immunity would have kicked in already after nearly a year, but it's compromised by lockdowns and masks etc. because as soon as the case numbers go up, they just lock everything down again. For herd immunity to be effective you have to be out with people daily and exposed so that your immune system can fight it.

Since 9 months of lockdowns, curfews, mask mandates and social distancing are clearly not working, not just in the USA but globally, I think the experts need to find another solution to this virus problem.
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My thinking exactly but i have been shot down in flames in other places for saying this,
 
StarSong said:
Why? So that this virus can be stopped, that's why. Or do people want to live like this for several more years until herd immunity kicks in or the virus morphs into a less dangerous version.
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And who knows if herd immunity will ever kick in for this virus. It doesn't work for every disease. Like polio, smallpox, etc., or things like yellow fever, cholera, etc., until we figured out how to knock them out with better sanitation and vector control.
 
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chic said:
Since 9 months of lockdowns, curfews, mask mandates and social distancing are clearly not working, not just in the USA but globally, I think the experts need to find another solution to this virus problem.
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It does if it is properly applied and adhered to. Except for a few minor clusters related to Australians returning from overseas, every state in Australia is now virtually free of corona virus. Your list - lockdowns, curfews, mask mandates and social distancing - has omitted isolating at home and quarantining in special hotels and one other very important strategy - contact tracing.

Another factor is time. It takes as long as it takes. In Victoria it took about 3 months to get things under control.

One weakness that this virus has shown up is insecure employment. Victoria was in a bad way because people working as security guards and cleaners in the quarantine hotels were also doing shifts in nursing homes and delivering pizzas. Once they became infected, they spread it around to work contacts and their families. The gig economy and multiple part time casual employment makes control that much harder.
 
Warrigal said:
It does if it is properly applied and adhered to. Except for a few minor clusters related to Australians returning from overseas, every state in Australia is now virtually free of corona virus. Your list - lockdowns, curfews, mask mandates and social distancing - has omitted isolating at home and quarantining in special hotels and one other very important strategy - contact tracing.

Another factor is time. It takes as long as it takes. In Victoria it took about 3 months to get things under control.

One weakness that this virus has shown up is insecure employment. Victoria was in a bad way because people working as security guards and cleaners in the quarantine hotels were also doing shifts in nursing homes and delivering pizzas. Once they became infected, they spread it around to work contacts and their families. The gig economy and multiple part time casual employment makes control that much harder.
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I only know what Aussie's tell me about Australia, but I do remember late last spring they were doing well while we were not. And now it's going badly again. And so it will go over and over again.

There is no way to make this work because it could take years, not months of this before there is a safe vaccine and this isn't working in the USA or Europe.

Why can't the experts work on medicine for the interim? Something that will help people recover from covid or at least survive it while freeing the rest of us from bondage until there is a safe, well tested, vaccine that will appeal to a larger segment of the population than is currently interested in vaccines?

To keep doing the same thing over and over again knowing it will not work is simply insane and a waste of time. It's worse because it's also a lie. I'm sure there are medicines that will help safely and effectively. At least they could try.
 
It's not going badly. These are the latest statistics

South Australian health authorities are racing to contain Adelaideā€™s Parafield coronavirus cluster, which numbers 31 cases, according to the latest SA Health figures.

Meanwhile, Victoria has reported 0 new cases today, marking the 27th day in a row that the state has recorded no new coronavirus cases or deaths. There are currently 0 active cases state-wide. Victoria is now in ā€œLast Stepā€ of the stateā€™s roadmap to reopening. The state will move to ā€œCOVID Normalā€ when there are no new cases for 28 days, no active cases state-wide and ā€œno outbreaks of concern in other states or territoriesā€, according to the stateā€™s health officials.

Elsewhere, NSW reported no cases today. It has been 19 days since the stateā€™s last locally-spread infection.
Queensland reported no cases today.
No states have reported any deaths yet today.

The data is among the charts below, which provide a guide to how Australia is faring in the fight against the spread of the coronavirus pandemic.

See here for charts: ABC coronavirus data charts COVID-19 spread in Australia - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The latest update was at 10:26 PM AEDT on Thursday, November 26.
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I wonder what the average length of time it takes for vaccines to be OK'd. Anyone know?
 


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