Woman Hospitalized - Vaccine Reaction. No allergies

[StarSong]

I knew this would happen so someone show the number of persons vaccinated over the number of people having "reactions". Note, 311,529 dead in the U.S. 830 dead today at 11:51 AM CST.

Exactly, FM. The US is currently logging roughly 250,000 new Covid cases and 3,000 deaths every day.

I have to shake my head at some (but certainly not all) of the responses I've seen about the vaccines since real data was published and the vaccines were approved.

On some threads people are complaining about having to wear masks, being restricted from seeing family members, closed shops and restaurants, damaged economies, travel restrictions, the threat to children's educations and social development because of online schools, and so forth.
Many of those very same people are now saying, "No way I'm getting a vaccination."

I'm not talking about those who cannot have a vaccine because of allergies or health issues that prevent them from doing so.

I'm very curious as to what they propose should happen here. Continue closures for another year (or five) while more data is accumulated? Or should everyone else line up to get the vaccine, thus providing them with herd immunity?

 

[HoneyNut]

I'm very curious as to what they propose should happen here. Continue closures for another year (or five) while more data is accumulated? Or should everyone else line up to get the vaccine, thus providing them with herd immunity?

Although I think it would be nice to have more data, I feel like it is a civic duty to get vaccinated. So many people have suffered so much, and I would feel like quite a hypocrite to expect others to take all the risk. At least getting these emergency approved vaccines does not require as much bravery as the people who volunteered to be in the test groups.

Also, I expect to hear a lot of wild stories about bad reactions that are just due to coincidence. Once there was a new variety of horse dewormer that had good safety according to official data but lots of horrible stories from people who gave it to their horses. I decided to buy it and on deworming day when I took it out of the cabinet I was a little anxious but decided to trust the more scientific sources. The next day when I went to the barn one of my horses was horribly sick, drooping, not eating or drinking, very scary and I'd never seen a horse sick like that. Had to call the vet to come treat the horse. But, the point of the story is that the previous day I had forgotten and left the dewormer on the table and was too lazy to go back to the house, so the horses had not had the new dewormer. I'm glad I forgot it or I would have been someone putting a scary bad reaction story out on the internet.

 

[Sunny]

HoneyNut, for a moment there I thought you were going to start promoting the dewormer as the latest miracle cure for Covid!

I do agree with you about getting the vaccine. StarSong made the same point; many of the people who keep denying and putting down the vaccine were the same ones who initially denied that this was even a serious illness, and now they are bitterly complaining about mask wearing, business shutdowns, and so on. I think they plan on just counting on enough other people to get immunized so that we will eventually reach herd immunity, which will protect them as well.

The trouble with that reasoning, apart from the moral aspect, is that doctors keep telling us that a certain number of people must first be immunized before we get to that point. And the more people keep carrying on about how "dangerous" this vaccine is (with absolutely no evidence), the longer it will take, because they will be scaring other people away.

 

[Becky1951]

"And the more people keep carrying on about how "dangerous" this vaccine is (with absolutely no evidence), the longer it will take, because they will be scaring other people away."

Not enough people have been vaccinated as yet to determine its safety. The second shot required hasn't even been given yet.

Do you have "absolute" evidence that its safe? No, you do not. No one does at this early stage.

I'm not scaring anyone away from getting the vaccine, I am giving my opinion, which I have a right to do, as do others, as do you.

 

[HoneyNut]

Not enough people have been vaccinated as yet to determine its safety. The second shot required hasn't even been given yet.

Becky, I found this on WebMD, it sounds like the vaccine has already been determined to be safe...

"Paul Offit, MD, a member of the FDA advisory panel that recommended the vaccine’s use, says rigorous clinical trials of the shot identified no safety concerns, despite its sped-up production.

“These vaccines were subjected to large phase III clinical trials,” says Offit, a vaccine expert at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “Regarding safety, there was an insistence by the FDA that at least tens of thousands of people be observed for 2 months after the final dose to make sure that there were no … uncommon side effects.”

Offit says the fast-tracking of the vaccine was mostly a result of the upfront financing the federal government provided, so no shortcuts were taken in verifying its safety."

 

[Becky1951]

"Becky, I found this on WebMD, it sounds like the vaccine has already been determined to be safe..."

Determined to be safe in the trial studies that uses a limited number of people, and only studied for a short period of time during the trial period that was hurried up.

That's not my idea of determined safe. When enough people have been vaccinated without having serious side effects I will determine if its safe enough for me take. Not when some else tells me its safe to take.

 

[Autumn]

My cousin's son died from a severe anaphylactic reaction to the flu shot we get every year. My husband had an anaphylactic reaction to a bee sting. He survived, but required immediate treatment and then several years of allergy shots to desensitize him. We need to look at the risk/benefit ratio. If 2 people out of many thousands have a reaction, I'd say benefit far outweighs risk. Statistically, there's a much higher risk of dying from Covid than from the vaccine.

 

[win231]

Exactly, FM. The US is currently logging roughly 250,000 new Covid cases and 3,000 deaths every day.

I have to shake my head at some (but certainly not all) of the responses I've seen about the vaccines since real data was published and the vaccines were approved.

On some threads people are complaining about having to wear masks, being restricted from seeing family members, closed shops and restaurants, damaged economies, travel restrictions, the threat to children's educations and social development because of online schools, and so forth.
Many of those very same people are now saying, "No way I'm getting a vaccination."

I'm not talking about those who cannot have a vaccine because of allergies or health issues that prevent them from doing so.

I'm very curious as to what they propose should happen here. Continue closures for another year (or five) while more data is accumulated? Or should everyone else line up to get the vaccine, thus providing them with herd immunity?

It's much simpler than that. Anyone who has confidence in the vaccine & its safety should get it. Anyone who doesn't should not.
Anyone who buys the numbers we're being given regarding new cases & deaths would probably want the vaccine, thinking it will fix everything.

We don't know all the possible risks of this vaccine because it was rushed into production & as with any new vaccine, more & more problems will surface as more & more bad reactions happen.

 

[win231]

"And the more people keep carrying on about how "dangerous" this vaccine is (with absolutely no evidence), the longer it will take, because they will be scaring other people away."

Not enough people have been vaccinated as yet to determine its safety. The second shot required hasn't even been given yet.

Do you have "absolute" evidence that its safe? No, you do not. No one does at this early stage.

I'm not scaring anyone away from getting the vaccine, I am giving my opinion, which I have a right to do, as do others, as do you.

As I've discovered, when you give such as opinion, people get angry at you because you are interfering with their mindset of "That vaccine will fix everything, save the economy so we can get back to normal life again." By not getting the vaccine, or even expressing concerns about it, you are undermining people's confidence in it; people gain confidence when others make the same decisions they do.
Advertisers know this - that's why they'll tell you how many "Millions of people have bought this product." McDonalds' sign says "Billions & Billions Sold." (Must be a great hamburger if that many people bought it.)
And, you can expect the vaccinated people to blame the unvaccinated people for "Prolonging the virus" just as some dolts blame people who don't get flu shots for "Making other people sick."

 

[Becky1951]

"We don't know all the possible risks of this vaccine because it was rushed into production & as with any new vaccine, more & more problems will surface as more & more bad reactions happen."

Exactly.

Wow, its been a whole 5 days since the first shot was given, and there have been adverse reactions, and this is only with the first shot, another one has to be given.

Lets at least wait until the second shot is given before touting its absolute safety.

 

[StarSong]

In mid-August Pfizer's 2nd shots started to be administered to at least 18,500 people (an equal number received the placebo) as part of the phase 3 segment of their clinical trials.

I understand that it feels risky. Would I feel more comfortable with a vaccine that had five years under its belt. Of course. What sane person wouldn't?

On the other hand, all credible sources report that our hospitals are overwhelmed, ICUs are overloaded, deaths are spiking, and the virus is exploding at an alarming rate.
https://www.latimes.com/california/...y-coronavirus-hospitalization-surge-rationing

If we spurn the vaccine, we'll have what's at the end of that pathway: longer closures, online schooling for the foreseeable future, more economic pain, less travel, and more restrictions.

By summertime, countries with large groups of non-vaxxers may permit/require vaccination proof for on-site work, airline travel, attendance to large venues, in-person schooling, and more.

 

[win231]

In mid-August Pfizer's 2nd shots started to be administered to at least 18,500 people (an equal number received the placebo) as part of the phase 3 segment of their clinical trials.

I understand that it feels risky. Would I feel more comfortable with a vaccine that had five years under its belt. Of course. What sane person wouldn't?

On the other hand, all credible sources report that our hospitals are overwhelmed, ICUs are overloaded, deaths are spiking, and the virus is exploding at an alarming rate.
https://www.latimes.com/california/...y-coronavirus-hospitalization-surge-rationing

If we spurn the vaccine, we'll have what's at the end of that pathway: longer closures, online schooling for the foreseeable future, more economic pain, less travel, and more restrictions.

By summertime, countries with large groups of non-vaxxers may permit/require vaccination proof for on-site work, airline travel, attendance to large venues, in-person schooling, and more.

If the deaths are exaggerated, (which I think they are), the sources are not credible. And several doctors have already admitted that the vaccine "may lessen symptoms, but will not prevent transmission." If that's true, ICU's will not be any less overloaded.
I doubt any employer will be permitted to require employees to be vaccinated. That would likely burden the courts with lawsuits against employers, & they would likely lose.

 

[StarSong]

It is so far unknown whether the vaccine prevents transmission. It's hoped that it will, but the data is not yet in.

If people who are vaccinated don't get sick with the virus they won't need to go to the hospital. Even if they contract the virus (unknown if they will) and can transmit it, if they are in contact with people who've also been vaccinated, those folks won't get sick with it either.

There is no telling what laws will be passed at federal or state levels if this virus continues to run roughshod through our population, particularly if large numbers of people refuse vaccines.

Airlines are already mandating mask wearing - I can certainly see them requiring proof of vaccination. International travel will almost certainly demand it by summertime.

 

[Becky1951]

In mid-August Pfizer's 2nd shots started to be administered to at least 18,500 people (an equal number received the placebo) as part of the phase 3 segment of their clinical trials.

I understand that it feels risky. Would I feel more comfortable with a vaccine that had five years under its belt. Of course. What sane person wouldn't?

On the other hand, all credible sources report that our hospitals are overwhelmed, ICUs are overloaded, deaths are spiking, and the virus is exploding at an alarming rate.
https://www.latimes.com/california/...y-coronavirus-hospitalization-surge-rationing

If we spurn the vaccine, we'll have what's at the end of that pathway: longer closures, online schooling for the foreseeable future, more economic pain, less travel, and more restrictions.

By summertime, countries with large groups of non-vaxxers may permit/require vaccination proof for on-site work, airline travel, attendance to large venues, in-person schooling, and more.

I understand the dire situation of needing to rush a vaccine for Covid.

I hope it works. I want it to be successful.

However I personally will wait until I feel it's safe.

I will not be bullied into getting it due to these early reports. Or early blame game, "if you don't get it others will die type of blame.)

Who is going to die if I don't get right away?

I don't plan on going out anywhere, no one is allowed in my home due to Covid.

I have everything I need delivered.

I sanitize everything coming into my home.

I see family outside, we keep a safe distance.

 

[Sunny]

In mid-August Pfizer's 2nd shots started to be administered to at least 18,500 people (an equal number received the placebo) as part of the phase 3 segment of their clinical trials.

I understand that it feels risky. Would I feel more comfortable with a vaccine that had five years under its belt. Of course. What sane person wouldn't?

On the other hand, all credible sources report that our hospitals are overwhelmed, ICUs are overloaded, deaths are spiking, and the virus is exploding at an alarming rate.
https://www.latimes.com/california/...y-coronavirus-hospitalization-surge-rationing

If we spurn the vaccine, we'll have what's at the end of that pathway: longer closures, online schooling for the foreseeable future, more economic pain, less travel, and more restrictions.

By summertime, countries with large groups of non-vaxxers may permit/require vaccination proof for on-site work, airline travel, attendance to large venues, in-person schooling, and more.

That LA Times article was an excellent description, StarSong, and sums it up nicely. With the horror story going on in so many hospitals right now, all this quibbling about whether the vaccine has undergone testing for a long enough time to satisfy the doubters is foolhardy, even suicidal. Our choice is between bad (possibly rushing into a vaccine too quickly, which doesn't sound like what's happening) and even worse (continued deaths on a massive scale, escalating day after day, overwhelmed hospitals, the economy in a tailspin... which very definitely is what's happening.)

Thankfully, they have started administering the vaccine, so far with no particularly awful results. One person out of thousands receiving the vaccine gets a bad reaction and has to be hospitalized? This happens with every vaccine out there! The only significant fact in all this is the number of people this has happened to, vs. the number it has not happened to.

Yet, the deniers keep repeating, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." Boy, The Wizard of Oz certainly got it right when it came to human nature!

P.S. Becky, no one is bullying you. How can any of us "bully" each other into receiving a vaccine? There are people with a hysterical fear of this disease, who sanitize everything coming into their home, and refuse to leave the house for any reason, even to go for a walk alone, wearing a mask. And there are people stirring up hysterical fears of a vaccine with, so far, no evidence. Ultimately, this is a critical decision that we must each make for ourself.

 

[StarSong]

I understand the dire situation of needing to rush a vaccine for Covid.

I hope it works. I want it to be successful.

However I personally will wait until I feel it's safe.

I will not be bullied into getting it due to these early reports. Or early blame game, "if you don't get it others will die type of blame.)

Who is going to die if I don't get right away?

I don't plan on going out anywhere, no one is allowed in my home due to Covid.

I have everything I need delivered.

I sanitize everything coming into my home.

I see family outside, we keep a safe distance.

@Becky1951, I understand and respect your decision regarding delaying a vaccine, especially considering your willingness to remain in a state of near-quarantine because of it.

 

[garyt1957]

And several doctors have already admitted that the vaccine "may lessen symptoms, but will not prevent transmission." If that's true, ICU's will not be any less overloaded.

If it lessens symptoms, then yes, ICU's will not be as overcrowded. What do you think lessens symptoms means?

 

[Becky1951]

"P.S. Becky, no one is bullying you. How can any of us "bully" each other into receiving a vaccine? There are people with a hysterical fear of this disease, who sanitize everything coming into their home, and refuse to leave the house for any reason, even to go for a walk alone, wearing a mask. And there are people stirring up hysterical fears of a vaccine with, so far, no evidence. Ultimately, this is a critical decision that we must each make for ourself."

I should have explained that better. When its continually shoved down your throat by media reports, it seems like bullying.

"There are people with a hysterical fear of this disease, who sanitize everything coming into their home, and refuse to leave the house for any reason."

Hum, Hysterical fear...I sanitize everything LOL. Hum, I'm not leaving my house while this virus is raging. LOL

You can cover that up by your saying, "There are people", but it was intended to imply I am hysterical. LMAO.

Its ok, N/P. Wishing you and yours a Merry
Christmas.

 

[Sunny]

Although that "sanitizing everything" phrase was right out of your own note, Becky, I was actually referring to a friend of mine, who is in her 90's; it was not about you. She is so scared that she will literally not leave her house. Her children do all her grocery shopping for her, delivering it to her house, and she puts everything out on her patio for the sun to "sterilize" it. That includes her mail, newspapers, groceries, whatever. She has not left the house for months. I haven't met with her in person for months either, even outdoors with masks on. And I miss her; it's almost as if she had died. She will probably not get the virus, how could she? But I think she is letting the virus win the war with her anyway, and it's making her last few months or years a living nightmare, even more than most people consider necessary. Her best bet at regaining her life is to get the vaccine ASAP. She is very anxious to get it.

My point was that there are people with phobias about this on both sides of the issue. I was not talking about you, except to answer your accusation of "bullying."

 

[win231]

If it lessens symptoms, then yes, ICU's will not be as overcrowded. What do you think lessens symptoms means?

You omitted one important word: "May." In the pharmaceutical industry, the word, "May" is frequently used because they're not legally allowed to say "Will," because that would be a guarantee & they still need to sell the product/vaccine, even though they know it's not likely to help.