Before anyone else takes the shot

Geezerette said:
My feeling is that any adult who has an opportunity to get the COVID vaccine or by extension any other vaccine and refuses it for any but the most serious medically accepted health conditions should be denied treatment if they do get the disease.
They are tacitly counting on the idea that if they do get sick they will be cared for no matter what happens. Never mind the unnecessary pressure on already overstretched healthcare providers. They are choosing to gamble not only with their own lives but with others’ as well.
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AGEED, many people go through life making choices that put a burden on everyone else. I am always against any type of communistic like control, but in this case I am not.

EVERY kind of business and medical care facility should be allowed to deny service to everyone (with the exceptions you noted) who can't show a valid vaccination card.

They already can deny service with "No shoes, No shirt No service". This is far more serious then a missing pair of shoes and a bare hairy chest!

It is the only fair approach for the responsible people who always end up picking up the tab and cleaning up the mess from the uncaring selfish.

In addition, When their lungs are damaged put their names on the bottom of the transplant wait list.
 

Homeschoolie said:
AGEED, many people go through life making choices that put a burden on everyone else. I am always against any type of communistic like control, but in this case I am not.

EVERY kind of business and medical care facility should be allowed to deny service to everyone (with the exceptions you noted) who can't show a valid vaccination card.

They already can deny service with "No shoes, No shirt No service". This is far more serious then a missing pair of shoes and a bare hairy chest!

It is the only fair approach for the responsible people who always end up picking up the tab and cleaning up the mess from the uncaring selfish.

In addition, When their lungs are damaged put their names on the bottom of the transplant wait list.
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Out of curiosity, how should businesses and medical services demanding vaccination cards deal with (1) those legitimately vaccinated who've lost or forgotten their card? (2) the growing business of fake/counterfeit vaccine cards? or (3) the hippocratic oath for medical providers? Are we about to form a new government bureaucracy to issue and enforce a vaccinated license? Will the unvaccinated be forced to wear some form of designation like the jews were in nazi Germany? How far will this go?
 
JonDouglas said:
Out of curiosity, how should businesses and medical services demanding vaccination cards deal with (1) those legitimately vaccinated who've lost or forgotten their card? (2) the growing business of fake/counterfeit vaccine cards? or (3) the hippocratic oath for medical providers? Are we about to form a new government bureaucracy to issue and enforce a vaccinated license? Will the unvaccinated be forced to wear some form of designation like the jews were in nazi Germany? How far will this go?
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Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler becomes more likely.[2][3] That is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the point at which usually dampens discussion.
 

StarSong said:
Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler becomes more likely.[2][3] That is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the point at which usually dampens discussion.
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That's all fine, but consider the possibility that it should be a real concern and how you would address the issue rather than attempting to discount the analogy.
 
chic said:
I have an important question which does not apply to everybody but will apply to many in the world.

As everyone here knows I cannot wear a mask due to a medical condition so HTH am I supposed to get vaccinated even if I wanted to? You have to wear a mask to be vaccinated right?

You'd be surprised how many of my neighbors who know this still ask me if I've been vaccinated. How is that supposed to happen if I can't wear a mask in the first place.

I mention this for those in the world who may want to be vaccinated and cannot wear a mask to get vaccinated.
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I would think any outdoor vaccination site would be fine. One where you could drive through. If I were you...they're wearing masks and then some...I would just explain it to them that you can't wear a mask but want to be vaccinated and see what happens. Worst case senario they say no. If they do perhaps you could place a call to your physician and get a note sent to you to show them so they have to vaccinate you outside. If you don't at least try how will you ever know?
 
JonDouglas said:
That's all fine, but consider the possibility that it should be a real concern and how you would address the issue rather than attempting to discount the analogy.
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I dismiss it because it's not a real concern.
If you believe it is, I can't imagine why you haven't already packed your bags in hopes of getting out before the SS arrives at your door to check your identification.
 
JonDouglas said:
Out of curiosity, how should businesses and medical services demanding vaccination cards deal with (1) those legitimately vaccinated who've lost or forgotten their card? (2) the growing business of fake/counterfeit vaccine cards? or (3) the hippocratic oath for medical providers? Are we about to form a new government bureaucracy to issue and enforce a vaccinated license? Will the unvaccinated be forced to wear some form of designation like the jews were in nazi Germany? How far will this go?
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At work those of us who don't get a flu vaccination (I don't because I can't) we have to wear a colored dot on our name tag. Then we have to take special precautions during flu season of simply wearing masks to protect the patients as well as ourselves. Perhaps something along those lines would happen without your vaccine card which I haven't heard is going to be used in that way. So if extra protection (which you wear in stores and places now) were necessary for unvaccinated...how is that Hilterish or cruel?
 
JonDouglas said:
Out of curiosity, how should businesses and medical services demanding vaccination cards deal with (1) those legitimately vaccinated who've lost or forgotten their card? (2) the growing business of fake/counterfeit vaccine cards? or (3) the hippocratic oath for medical providers? Are we about to form a new government bureaucracy to issue and enforce a vaccinated license? Will the unvaccinated be forced to wear some form of designation like the jews were in nazi Germany? How far will this go?
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It would go as far as the frightened, frustrated, controlling, judgemental, scapegoat seekers want it to go.
 
Sunny said:
Gary, would you mind telling us what was your son's cause of death? If you'd rather not, because it's too personal, I understand. But it's hard to tell from what you have written whether his cause of death was the vaccine itself, or something else.
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No autopsy
His cremation was rather rushed
No help on our part

I will say this
He was fit and able, and ate right
49 is a bit young for natural causes

He took some heavy meds for his schizophrenia
But had physicals every six months to see if his major organs were doing OK

I can't say for sure the vaccine did him in
The vaccine with those meds didn't help matters

Still, four days after the vaccine, I don't believe to be coincidence

I'd appreciate this not to be on the banter bonfire

It's just FYI
 
StarSong said:
Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler becomes more likely.[2][3] That is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the point at which usually dampens discussion.
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If the shoe fits.................
 
JonDouglas said:
Perhaps someday you'll better appreciate how questions are used to both get people to think and discover if there any any hot spots to be aware of. It helps to remember that a response to posed questions can be quite telling in a number of ways. I trust you've noticed that a lot of threads in this forum start with a question, clever people that they are.

Best regards,
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{sigh} you are still trying to make this about me when it is about your posts, which is just another sad attempt at deflection. Your post #19 admonished folks to be look harder at things that were questioned, etc. Then in your post #105 you questioned the motivation/reasons for the USC study (publish or perish?) and the qualifications of the authors, which, in accordance with your post #19 is reason to "you know its time to give that view, voice or idea more, not less, attention". All I did was call you out on it.

But keep trying to unsay what you said. That is common practice by folks who don't want to own up to their own words.
 
StarSong said:
I don't agree with withholding any kind of medical assistance regardless of vaccination status, just for the record.
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We were told if the vax cards were lost, stolen or misplaced, we could simply call the "hub" (which is where we got vac'd) and they had a record of our vaccinations. They would then provide us with a new card. In other words, its on record. The paperwork you fill out prior to vaccination is kept online.
 
Liberty said:
We were told if the vax cards were lost, stolen or misplaced, we could simply call the "hub" (which is where we got vac'd) and they had a record of our vaccinations. They would then provide us with a new card. In other words, its on record. The paperwork you fill out prior to vaccination is kept online.
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That makes sense. However, my post was referring to the many comments I've seen on SF suggesting Covid health care should be denied to people who declined the vaccine and were then seriously sickened by the virus. For example, post #126. ^^^

In my eyes that would be little different from refusing assistance to Type 2 diabetics who persist in eating foods that exacerbate their conditions (plenty of these in my extended family), denying COPD, lung cancer or cardio vascular care to smokers, banning emergency care for drunk drivers who get into accidents, and so forth.

Civilized humans don't behave that way toward one another.
 
I don't think there is really any similarity between requiring health measures and Nazi Germany requiring Jews to wear a yellow star. Talk about a stretch!

The requirement of proof of vaccination is for the public good, and helps to slow down the raging pandemic that is killing people by the millions. Some people may be against taking a vaccine (or any vaccine), but no one is accusing the medical establishment of practicing genocide against a helpless group of people because of their ethnic identity. One is being done for good (whether you personally want the vaccine or not), the other is pure evil.

There are situations in life that are comparable to Nazi Germany, but come on! Using that as an analogy for everything you disagree with cheapens the memory of the Holocaust.

P.S. Don't schools require proof of vaccination because kids can be registered as students? Don't some countries require immunization before admitting travelers to their shores? Nothing new about requiring proof of vaccination.
 
I was on the fence with getting the shot this morning. I decided I would rather get a little sick and feel free to see people again. So 1 down and 1 to go. I hung around our medium sized city afterward, hoping to find a cafe to get a little breakfast. Everywhere I went it was pretty crowded
( Sat. morning ) and 90% of the people were not wearing masks. I didn't get any breakfast...just came on home and ate.
 
StarSong said:
Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler becomes more likely.[2][3] That is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the point at which usually dampens discussion.
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wrong post edit
 
Gaer said:
I wish this would have been posted prior to my stupidly getting the shot!
Getting the vaccine will go down as one of the stupidest things I've ever done.
Wo! That list is getting awfully long!
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I'm not an anti vaxer per se but me, most of my family and friends are not planning to get the vaccine any time soon (if ever). One friend took it and after the first shot, she said her face was red like a beet and it lasted a few days. The doctor really couldn't do anything about it. Another one who's being treated for cancer took it and she said it made her so sick she had stuff coming out of both ends, got dizzy, weak and just felt awful for days.

I feel not enough is known about these vaccines yet. Information coming from health organizations keeps changing. Get the shot but still wear masks and social distance, which only recently has been revised. I don't rush and get a new operating system as soon as it's available because there are always glitches. Plus I've read some disturbing things about what's in the vaccine and what it does.

"Getting the vaccine will go down as one of the stupidest things I've ever done." Why do you feel that way Gaer?
 
Wow, six pages of commentary posts and no one questioned the validity of the original post. Interesting....

Fact check: COVID-19 vaccine not associated with neurodegenerative disease
USA TODAY 31March2021
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...cine-not-associated-prion-disease/7053007002/

(excerpt)
Prion disease and COVID-19 vaccines
Contrary to Classen's claim, there is no evidence to suggest the COVID-19 vaccines can cause prion diseases or other neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's.

USA TODAY found no mention in its review of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's decision memorandums for both Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines, which involved clinical trials with tens of thousands of volunteers. Similarly, no cases have been reported to the federal government's Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, or VAERS.

"VAERS has received no reports of prion-related diseases, Alzheimer's disease, or amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) after COVID-19 vaccination," said Martha Sharan, a spokesperson for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, to PolitiFact in February. "No evidence to date indicates a causative association between COVID-19 vaccines and these conditions."

Dr. Angela Rasmussen, a virologist affiliated with Georgetown University, told USA TODAY Classen's paper held "no scientific weight at all" and that the journal his article is published in, Microbiology & Infectious Diseases, was "not a reputable or reliable journal." (Microbiology & Infectious Diseases is an open-access journal published by SciVision Publishers, a potential predatory publisher intended for profit rather than academic peer-review.)

Dr. David Gorski, professor of surgery and oncology at the Wayne State University School of Medicine, echoed Rasmussen in a Feb. 22 blog post for Science-Based Medicine.

"What we have here is a whole heck of a lot of speculation, with the finding of an obscure connection based on methodology that is not explained with anywhere near the level of rigor a real molecular biology or bioinformatics scientist would require to be convinced," Gorski concludes.

It's worth noting this is not the first time Classen has used "science" to claim vaccines do more harm than good. In 1999, he claimed the influenza vaccine caused type 1 diabetes, a claim disproven by Johns Hopkins University's Institute for Vaccine Safety.
 

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