Transgender teen commits suicide due to Christian parents lack of acceptance!

Good point, yet back before the '60's, in the days when gender roles were REALLY fixed, we didn't seem to see so much frustration and so many suicides over gender confusion.

Was it just covered up? I doubt it.

That's why I mentioned parental (and societal) laxity as a cause for such current-day problems. It's okay to be confused now, and that's a big part of the problem. Just as children thrive when given rules and regulations and taught proper behavior, so too do they go wild when told any behavior is fine.

I don't know ... maybe I got a good mix of hormones when I was born, maybe it's because I've never felt the urge for gender re-assignment, but I find it difficult to empathize with these suicides. I put it down more to teen angst than gender confusion.
 

BlazeDuskdreamer, don't think that I didn't take in in all that you have told us about your experiences.
I did, and I wish to extend my sympathies for all the pain you have suffered.

There is just one sentence that puzzles me.

I was Agnostic throughout the bulk of my marriage, he was Baptist but not very extreme in it, even agreed with not baptizing the baby
I do not find it surprising that a Baptist would agree to not baptising the baby. Indeed, I would find it surprising if he agreed to infant baptism at all.

Are American Baptists different to Baptists in other countries?
 
BlazeDuskdreamer, don't think that I didn't take in in all that you have told us about your experiences.
I did, and I wish to extend my sympathies for all the pain you have suffered.

There is just one sentence that puzzles me.


I do not find it surprising that a Baptist would agree to not baptising the baby. Indeed, I would find it surprising if he agreed to infant baptism at all.

Are American Baptists different to Baptists in other countries?


I was a baptist for a couple years and I don't ever recall a baby being baptized or christened. If anything, there was a ceremony in front of the church that simply acknowledged the new member. Baptism in our church was reserved for people who were able to make a cognitive 'decision for Christ'.
 

The ignorance related to the matter of sexual orientation that still exist with the so called more enlighten really astonishes me. People were jailed, brutalized and killed at times for a hint of being anyway but one way and that is so called, "straight," straight and narrow minded in their dealings in human sexuality. Seriously, this can still happen in some places, uh even in the good ole US of A, people are stalked and maimed for having a different orientation. Yes, people have been tormented for decades about their orientation only thing new is more people admitting they have feelings that don't fit inside a neat little box that they've been forced into by the people who can't seem to wrap their brains around the fact that we're not all cut from the same cloth. As human beings there's not one real set sexual orientation other than what we've boxed ourselves into believing by societal rules. Not saying we should all run out and go buck wild crazy, just saying people need to stop forcing others to whom appear wired different to conform to their way of existing simply because they don't quite understand. It might be better to educate oneself on the matter than just pull stuff out of the crapper for the sake of having something to say.

People have been committing suicide for not understanding, not being accepted, feeling trapped in no win situations such as knowing they're never going to fit in, never going to feel like a whole person when they can't be or live as they feel they are inside.

It wasn't gender reassignment issues, but, good example of this, would be to take a look at what happened to, the very brilliant, Alan Turing, in the recently released movie "The Imitation Game." Very sad what some people have to live through at the hands of the rest of us due to our very limited reasoning capabilities.
 
Many might say, "ok, what is "normal" in today's society"?. "Normal" is when people don't give you strange looks b/c of the way you look and or act. When a man or woman wants to change their first name to match how they feel about their sexuality AND when they want to change their looks, for the same reason.......many people will be against that and will make fun of that change. Some people who do that lose their families and friends, but do get what THEY want......to be the opposite sex of how they were born.

A lot of folks just aren't "open-minded" to things people do to themselves or how they act. A lot of people don't want to be "open-minded" to everything and that should be fine also.
 
I am of Baptist persuasion as well and whilst there are a number of families who don't accept anything different from the 'normal', I believe if God makes people the way they are and can love them the way they are, why can we not accept that. It's society and man's interpretations of any book of religion that causes the problems.

Some time ago I wrote a blog on another forum which I think is relevant to this thread. I didn't realise until I met the person I wrote about, the agonies they go through. It is horrendous for them personally and it doesn't help if they are looked down upon by society. I have also heard interviews with others who have undergone surgery to make changes and they are still not happy. Whether it's anything to do with the physical side I don't know but one army major lost his family when he told them how he felt, he went through all the processes but at the end of the interview, he was asked if he regretted it and he said 'yes'.

When blogging, my daughter has given me inspiration many, many times and one such story, inspired by a past friend of my daughter. The 'past friend' isn't due to a falling out or anything personal between them, it's because of the friend's journey into another life. The names are fictitious but the people are real.

"My daughter first met Katherine at an agricultural college. The college catered for farming, fishery and other countryside pursuits training and like the course for Countryside Ranger training, my daughter and Katherine were students there. Katherine however was to be known later as Archie because she belonged to that group of people of muddled gender, she was a male trapped in a female body. Psychologically she was a male and after years of deliberation decided that she would shed the femininity side and become a male. I had only heard of people like that and like many others, I felt a little apprehensive of the thought of it and by the time I met her, she was in the process of becoming male.

It wasn't an easy journey for her and one which wasn't being taken lightly. Once the process started, she only had two years to change her mind. That was the time she had been given to live as a man, in every way. She was now a 'he' and his name was Archie. He was a lovely person, very interesting to talk to, the big difficulty was remembering to address him as he or him or his. Of course being at college also meant he had to use the 'gents' loos which freaked the fishery students out because physically he was still in a female body.

He did look like a man, in fact although quite young, he looked much older and actually there wasn't really much femininity in his looks or manners other than still having normal female attributes. The body changes would all be scheduled for change under the knife. Graduation was the last time we saw Archie, he already had the first in a series of operations to change his body and the removal of his breasts had hit him harder psychologically much more than he had expected. He went through a long time of depression. He had decided to start a completely new life and shake off the old one by removing as much as he could of outside reminders of his past life. So he just disappeared completely, giving up all friends in the process.

I only met Archie once when he stayed the weekend with us and I've thought about him from time to time. We hear about people like him and dismiss the thought with sympathy, disgust or disdain. It's easy to judge when they are strangers but when you've seen the agony they go through, you can only try to understand but you never will completely because you've never been there. There's the thought of giving up the body you were born with and in Archie's case, he thought it would make the journey easier by giving up friends – both of these I think are beyond imagination. I know how I feel at losing even one friend,whatever the reason, but to give them all up deliberately as an easier option to risk seeing friends embarrassed and not being able to handle or accept the situation, or hearing the whispered remarks or seeing the nudges. It's difficult to disappear completely and we have heard he is living and working in the other side of the country from us. No doubt his friends could trace him if they really put their mind to it but will probably respect his wishes and privacy and hope just to hear, from time to time, that's he's ok. The journey for him would have been arduous enough psychologically without interference and if he wishes to re-appear again, I'm sure he'll find a way".

I also knew someone many years ago, a friend and a very nice young man and he too had psychological problems with being of mixed gender, but we were too young and naive to understand so I would think that any suicide attempt would come from an inner battle more so than outside influence.
 
Good point, yet back before the '60's, in the days when gender roles were REALLY fixed, we didn't seem to see so much frustration and so many suicides over gender confusion.

Was it just covered up? I doubt it.

That's why I mentioned parental (and societal) laxity as a cause for such current-day problems. It's okay to be confused now, and that's a big part of the problem. Just as children thrive when given rules and regulations and taught proper behavior, so too do they go wild when told any behavior is fine.

I don't know ... maybe I got a good mix of hormones when I was born, maybe it's because I've never felt the urge for gender re-assignment, but I find it difficult to empathize with these suicides. I put it down more to teen angst than gender confusion.

That is also a good point though I wonder how the suicide rates then and now compare and if any suicides could be attributed to gender identity problems most didn't know or understand back then.

BlazeDuskdreamer, don't think that I didn't take in in all that you have told us about your experiences.
I did, and I wish to extend my sympathies for all the pain you have suffered.

There is just one sentence that puzzles me.


I do not find it surprising that a Baptist would agree to not baptising the baby. Indeed, I would find it surprising if he agreed to infant baptism at all.

Are American Baptists different to Baptists in other countries?

I was a baptist for a couple years and I don't ever recall a baby being baptized or christened. If anything, there was a ceremony in front of the church that simply acknowledged the new member. Baptism in our church was reserved for people who were able to make a cognitive 'decision for Christ'.

Apparently, I'm ignorant of Baptist customs despite four years married to one! He wasn't much of a church-goer though he did believe in God. Thanks for enlightening me. No wonder he didn't argue when I refused to baptize her. His family did but his family was a mix of Baptist and Catholic and the Catholics were the more ardent. My daughter was younger than her Baptist cousins and I hadn't been present to know if there was a baptism or not. Seems there might have been some sort of ceremony but perhaps it's like my mother's Dutch Reformed. All 8 of us are dedicated, not baptized.

I am of Baptist persuasion as well and whilst there are a number of families who don't accept anything different from the 'normal', I believe if God makes people the way they are and can love them the way they are, why can we not accept that. It's society and man's interpretations of any book of religion that causes the problems.

Some time ago I wrote a blog on another forum which I think is relevant to this thread. I didn't realise until I met the person I wrote about, the agonies they go through. It is horrendous for them personally and it doesn't help if they are looked down upon by society. I have also heard interviews with others who have undergone surgery to make changes and they are still not happy. Whether it's anything to do with the physical side I don't know but one army major lost his family when he told them how he felt, he went through all the processes but at the end of the interview, he was asked if he regretted it and he said 'yes'.

When blogging, my daughter has given me inspiration many, many times and one such story, inspired by a past friend of my daughter. The 'past friend' isn't due to a falling out or anything personal between them, it's because of the friend's journey into another life. The names are fictitious but the people are real.

"My daughter first met Katherine at an agricultural college. The college catered for farming, fishery and other countryside pursuits training and like the course for Countryside Ranger training, my daughter and Katherine were students there. Katherine however was to be known later as Archie because she belonged to that group of people of muddled gender, she was a male trapped in a female body. Psychologically she was a male and after years of deliberation decided that she would shed the femininity side and become a male. I had only heard of people like that and like many others, I felt a little apprehensive of the thought of it and by the time I met her, she was in the process of becoming male.

It wasn't an easy journey for her and one which wasn't being taken lightly. Once the process started, she only had two years to change her mind. That was the time she had been given to live as a man, in every way. She was now a 'he' and his name was Archie. He was a lovely person, very interesting to talk to, the big difficulty was remembering to address him as he or him or his. Of course being at college also meant he had to use the 'gents' loos which freaked the fishery students out because physically he was still in a female body.

He did look like a man, in fact although quite young, he looked much older and actually there wasn't really much femininity in his looks or manners other than still having normal female attributes. The body changes would all be scheduled for change under the knife. Graduation was the last time we saw Archie, he already had the first in a series of operations to change his body and the removal of his breasts had hit him harder psychologically much more than he had expected. He went through a long time of depression. He had decided to start a completely new life and shake off the old one by removing as much as he could of outside reminders of his past life. So he just disappeared completely, giving up all friends in the process.

I only met Archie once when he stayed the weekend with us and I've thought about him from time to time. We hear about people like him and dismiss the thought with sympathy, disgust or disdain. It's easy to judge when they are strangers but when you've seen the agony they go through, you can only try to understand but you never will completely because you've never been there. There's the thought of giving up the body you were born with and in Archie's case, he thought it would make the journey easier by giving up friends – both of these I think are beyond imagination. I know how I feel at losing even one friend,whatever the reason, but to give them all up deliberately as an easier option to risk seeing friends embarrassed and not being able to handle or accept the situation, or hearing the whispered remarks or seeing the nudges. It's difficult to disappear completely and we have heard he is living and working in the other side of the country from us. No doubt his friends could trace him if they really put their mind to it but will probably respect his wishes and privacy and hope just to hear, from time to time, that's he's ok. The journey for him would have been arduous enough psychologically without interference and if he wishes to re-appear again, I'm sure he'll find a way".

I also knew someone many years ago, a friend and a very nice young man and he too had psychological problems with being of mixed gender, but we were too young and naive to understand so I would think that any suicide attempt would come from an inner battle more so than outside influence.

Insightful post. I think some of that is in play with daughter's gf too though I'm not sure how much and I doubt even she is. Like I said, some gender identity issues are at play. She looks like a woman but there's been some macho tripping and wanting to position as head of household. Also, for humor, she will let her voice drop into the deep man's voice at times. When we met, she did that to see if it would cause a reaction in me but it just made me (and my grandson) laugh. It was a joke punchline. She is also greatly bothered because her family insists on continuing to call her by her male name. Also, some of her older patents are in that name. I know recently, for a job she got and is now working, on a job interview that entailed showing those patents, the person actually said to her unless you've had a sex change operation not realizing he was not making the joke he thought until she replied, well, actually... She was also already a father when she underwent the surgery which complicates things for not just her but her children, both of which expressed confusion to me over it. As her son put it, "It's weird saying she's my dad," even though she is. They call her by her female name, not Mom (which belongs to the woman that gave birth to them in their minds) or Dad.

You do learn more getting to know people but I think it's much too complicated to blame on just the parents of these teens. Also, given the two year process and the tough decision involved, it seems to me unethical to begin while the child is still a minor though I don't object to allowing them to identify and dress and present as the gender opposite what they were born, just the actual surgery and the process before it should wait until they are an adult. It is a major physical change to a body undergoing the changes of puberty and seems to me unethical but then I was not being facetious. I also think boob jobs are unethical at that age for the same reason. Do doctors have no ethics any more? Is it just about making a buck?
 
BlazeDuskdreamer, thanks for sharing your personal experience. It's not easy for many of us to understand what's behind suicides and troublesome feelings and behavior. It's gotta be tough feeling threatened by your own mother, and then followed by threats from others in your life. I hope the situation improves for your daughter and her partner, the issues obviously run deeper than I know. Wishing a brighter and more positive future for both you and your daughter...hugs.

Thank you. Sorry, I missed this comment earlier. I don't know how it will turn out but suspect they run too deep and they won't. It's a difficult situation, especially as I'm currently not talking to her, which will only change with time, if things get better. I have a nasty suspicion that they're better as in not abusive but not good still. My daughter doesn't give up on family easily plus we're both attached to her partner's children, the youngest, her daughter, was born the same month as my grandson! Hopefully, for everyone concerned, especially the three children involved, they both (my daughter is not without fault) will get to a better place mentally.
 
I think years ago there were certain guidelines and expectations, if born looking like either a male or female then that's what you should be. It would have been even more difficult for parents to think otherwise and the children would need to follow the parents rules and regulations. So in spite of going through their own emotional turmoil, the fact that they did have parental guidance may have kept them on a more even keel. I could be wrong of course but children need guidance and we live in a society where children virtually rule the roost so I would think it more difficult if anyone who is transgender now to live without distinct guidance of some sort. It must also be a very strong feeling if a parent changes whilst the children are young and not able to understand. I can't help thinking that however unhappy I would be, I would prefer to wait until the children were grown up but that's from someone on the outside looking in.
 
I think years ago there were certain guidelines and expectations, if born looking like either a male or female then that's what you should be. It would have been even more difficult for parents to think otherwise and the children would need to follow the parents rules and regulations. So in spite of going through their own emotional turmoil, the fact that they did have parental guidance may have kept them on a more even keel. I could be wrong of course but children need guidance and we live in a society where children virtually rule the roost so I would think it more difficult if anyone who is transgender now to live without distinct guidance of some sort. It must also be a very strong feeling if a parent changes whilst the children are young and not able to understand. I can't help thinking that however unhappy I would be, I would prefer to wait until the children were grown up but that's from someone on the outside looking in.

I think there came a point where she just couldn't live the lie but, yes, also I think the more I know her, the wider a selfish streak I see -- but don't tell my daughter I said that!
 


Back
Top