Feminist Trends: “Are You Speaking To Me, Momma?”

Shero said:
I visited Sweden and enjoyed many a fika with women, some feminists and non feminists. The feminists did not seem to m to be any different to those I have met in other countries. Is it possible you may be using the incorrect word and should say instead careless parents? These exist everywhere!
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I do understand what you are saying. But no, If a lackadaisical existence in society is considered general, global, careless parenting, this (of which I speak) on the other hand is obstinant and intentional behaviour rather than mindlessness.
 

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Verisure said:
Well, whereas TV "reality" shows are on the screen, edited, and often even scripted the experience of observing life is not. You can pass judgement (as you say) based upon your own values and morals, it's true, but it is real and you don't need to understand what you see by way of circumstance to know some of the things that I (or perhaps I can say " WE"!) have been talking about. By "knowing this woman's situation" as you said in your earlier post, I hope you are not making excuses for her behaviour or finding blame in the child?
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The OP concerned a child, if not a baby in a buggy, so obviously no blame there, but can I just make the point this young woman has carried that child, given birth, someone's trusted the mother/parents to take the child home and care for the baby, and who does know, maybe that baby does love their mother and vice versa!
Is everyone suggesting that baby would be better taken away from their mother because of the evidence in the OP?
 
Manatee said:
Brings to mind the story a while back of the woman so focused on her cell phone that she walked into the side of a moving train. She was lucky that it didn't injure her, just knocked her on her butt about 30 feet away from the tracks.
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Yes. Riding the city bus one day the light changed to green. We proceeded but just as we were getting started a woman (mobile telephone to her ear) ignored the red light and walked right into the side of the bus. The bus stopped, the police were summoned and I was picked to be a witness. After all, I saw the whole thing from my window seat. The woman and her telephone claimed that it was the bus that hit her! Impossible? Of course. And she was very careful not to admit the light had been red against her in the first place. I reminded her and I reminded the police too.
 

Verisure said:
I am suggesting that I know and fully understand the effect that feminism has on women in the very same way that I know and fully understand the effect that political propaganda has on the general population. You do see the correlation, yes?
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You've gotten me wrong if you're thinking I'm a supporter of any kind of radical feminist agenda, though I'd agree with those saying the OP has little or nothing to do with that movement.
 
grahamg said:
...... can I just make the point this young woman has carried that child, given birth, someone's trusted the mother/parents to take the child home and care for the baby, and who does know, maybe that baby does love their mother and vice versa!
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I don't actually see the relevance. Can you rephrase it, please?
grahamg said:
Is everyone suggesting that baby would be better taken away from their mother because of the evidence in the OP?
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No one has said it but it could be a possibility, among others. But Feminism is a lifestyle. If it works well then fine. But if ('if') the effects of Feminism is deficient parenting then what do you suggest be done?
 
grahamg said:
You've gotten me wrong .......
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I think the deleted post between your first comment and the second one is at fault. It gave me the impression that you were speaking to me. You probably were not.
grahamg said:
..... I'd agree with those saying the OP has little or nothing to do with that movement.
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As I already pointed out in my reply #50. However, I very deliberately - right from the OP - made certain that I was (and still am) talking about Feminism in Sweden. Not true?
 
Verisure said:
I don't actually see the relevance. Can you rephrase it, please?
No one has said it but it could be a possibility, among others. But Feminism is a lifestyle. If it works well then fine. But if ('if') the effects of Feminism is deficient parenting then what do you suggest be done?
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You're now suggesting removing this child as a potential action, regardless of whether anyone actually said it before or not.

In my view "parenting" is as much undermined by busy bodies making ridiculous accusations or assertions as it is by even radical feminism!

A mother who does none of the things spoken of in the OP, turns herself and her new baby out perfectly when they go to town or whatever, but because of her own psychology finds it difficult to show love, and warmth even to this beautifully turned out child, is a case maybe far more to worry folks, that the one you've described.

An aunt of mine loved my cousin, her first born child, a son, but when baby number two arrived she somehow lost her mothering behaviour. No one could say why, my father told me, though all was well because my uncle stepped up and fulfilled both caring roles, (more than adequately!).

You wouldn't have known there was anything wrong there, but the role of a good dad or father to a child can make up for a great deal, and the young woman in the OP maybe lacks that support, because the dad is useless, or not around anymore, for whatever reason, (including I very willingly admit, feminism!).
 
grahamg said:
You're now suggesting removing this child as a potential action, regardless of whether anyone actually said it before or not.

In my view "parenting" is as much undermined by busy bodies making ridiculous accusations or assertions as it is by even radical feminism!

A mother who does none of the things spoken of in the OP, turns herself and her new baby out perfectly when they go to town or whatever, but because of her own psychology finds it difficult to show love, and warmth even to this beautifully turned out child, is a case maybe far more to worry folks, that the one you've described.

An aunt of mine loved my cousin, her first born child, a son, but when baby number two arrived she somehow lost her mothering behaviour. No one could say why, my father told me, though all was well because my uncle stepped up and fulfilled both caring roles, (more than adequately!).

You wouldn't have known there was anything wrong there, but the role of a good dad or father to a child can make up for a great deal, and the young woman in the OP maybe lacks that support, because the dad is useless, or not around anymore, for whatever reason, (including I very willingly admit, feminism!).
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Sorry, but I made no punitive suggestion nor did anyone else. I think perhaps you've left the block before the starting pistol got off a shot.
 
Verisure said:
Sorry, but I made no punitive suggestion nor did anyone else. I think perhaps you've left the block before the starting pistol got off a shot.
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You said this in your previous post: "No one has said it but it could be a possibility, among others." (so somebodies lining themselves up as some kind of judge and jury in the case of this young woman).

I do jump to the defence of parents, (fathers being my main focus), yes, whilst I hope not ignoring just how many may lack some of the desirable qualities we'd probably all like them to possess, or demonstrate more clearly.

At the same time I'm not enamoured with parents/mothers who in my view try to make a show of their parenting skills, for the benefit of anyone watching. However, I guess the kids maybe come to figure out when their parents are "putting on a show for the cameras", or to make themselves feel better about how special a parent they are, and the children know perfectly well what moody devils, or otherwise flawed people their parents are, (all within a loving environment I'd guess you could say, and nothing for me to interfere in).
 
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grahamg said:
You said this in your previous post: "No one has said it but it could be a possibility, among others."......
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It didn't say anything about "removing the child" from its mother's care. You did.
grahamg said:
..... so somebodies lining themselves up and some kind of judge and jury .....
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That must be you again. It was you who introduced "judgement and jury" into the discussion, first against her ... and now against me.
 
Verisure said:
Those you describe consider themselves to be feminists and feel they have a right to that behaviour. It is a rules/laws be damned "I can do whatever I want because I am a woman" attitude. This, despite any existing definition of "feminism", is what the ideology has come to represent in Sweden.
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I do not like labels, so would not say I am feminist, but I admire women who are strong and can stand on even ground with men. I really cannot see what the fuss about with this woman. I have only been a visitor to Sweden so maybe I missed things which you notice living there day in day out.
 
grahamg said:
PS. Did someone mention the word "arrogance", (I'll take a look around for you, oh wait a minute, what's this? ) /\/\/\/\ :(
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How is this "arrogant"? Did I single someone out? Did I claim that anyone here is guilty of being "disgustingly selfish"? I described a certain behaviour consisting of several "disgusting & selfish" (my own choice of words) traits. I very much do find it disgusting & selfish, and anyone who displays those traits I think is disgusting & selfish. If anyone on this thread feels insulted by what I said it can only be because they either fit that description, or they have a chip on their shoulder that makes them sensitive to something other than what I am talking about, ie. a hidden agenda. So .... where does that leave us now?
 
Paco Dennis said:
Maybe the arrogance you sense is Swedish chauvinism.? All different cultures have different expressions of both feminism and chauvinism.
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It seems rather strange to me that I am being accused of arrogance and/or chauvinism yet I haven’t seen the proof of any crime yet. Is my crime a secret? Is it classified? If you tell me what it is I can probably help you out. You may find that it is neither arrogance nor chauvinism. How can anyone know if you don’t exhibit some proof?
 
While me and my husband were driving my Granddaughter to school today I noticed a man driving 3 kids to school and the whole time he was on his cell phone and had it tucked under his chin with his head tilted. What nut drives while talking on the phone. Driving is dangerous enough. Not only was he putting himself and his children in danger but everyone else around him.And he was not a woman and honestly I don't think he is what I consider a real MAN!
 
Verisure said:
How is this "arrogant"? Did I single someone out? Did I claim that anyone here is guilty of being "disgustingly selfish"? I described a certain behaviour consisting of several "disgusting & selfish" (my own choice of words) traits. I very much do find it disgusting & selfish, and anyone who displays those traits I think is disgusting & selfish. If anyone on this thread feels insulted by what I said it can only be because they either fit that description, or they have a chip on their shoulder that makes them sensitive to something other than what I am talking about, ie. a hidden agenda. So .... where does that leave us now?
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Look, its very easy to bury the hatchet, and I wont try to disrupt your thread with too much detail about "fathers or parents rights", but I hope you'll indulge me covering this story here.

On the child protection side of things, just to focus upon that aspect now, fifteen or twenty years ago I listened to the head of CAFCASS in Wales speak to a father's group, (Children And Families Conciliation, Arbitration Support Service, a government body with a very poor reputation amongst very respectable parents groups at the time).

The first thing to say about him was just how professional he appeared to be. If you listened to him in a court setting, giving an opinion on a child's welfare, you could just imagine how much more confidence whatever he might say would have, so much more than any member of the public or parent might be able to do.

The second thing to say, (to try to get to the point), is that when I asked him this question: "Could he envisage him not seeing his children being in their best interests"?

His response was: "Yes, if I was abusing them"!

You could imagine what a headline in the local Cardiff newspaper next morning might have been, "HEAD OF CAFCASS ADMITS HE COULD ABUSE HIS OWN CHILDREN"

He might have got away with this response had there not been other fathers ready to pick his up on his words, because anyone in their right mind cannot really "envisage" abusing their own children who they love, or should love of course. I acknowledge in his position he maybe has to look at any parent as a potential abuser, and he must come across so many difficult cases where children do have to be removed from their homes for their safety, and I'm sure they're never easy decisions, (hopefully rare enough, compared to most divorce cases his organisation will deal with though).

In my view there is a barrage of obstacles being placed in the way of decent parents/fathers in the UK, no matter what anyone says to the contrary, and in view of that situation criticising parents isn't something to do without a great deal of thought, (hopefully my last words on this thread!).
 
grahamg said:
Look, its very easy to bury the hatchet, and I wont try to disrupt your thread with too much detail about "fathers or parents rights", but I hope you'll indulge me covering this story here.

On the child protection side of things, just to focus upon that aspect now, fifteen or twenty years ago I listened to the head of CAFCASS in Wales speak to a father's group, (Children And Families Conciliation, Arbitration Support Service, a government body with a very poor reputation amongst very respectable parents groups at the time).

The first thing to say about him was just how professional he appeared to be. If you listened to him in a court setting, giving an opinion on a child's welfare, you could just imagine how much more confidence whatever he might say would have, so much more than any member of the public or parent might be able to do.

The second thing to say, (to try to get to the point), is that when I asked him this question: "Could he envisage him not seeing his children being in their best interests"?

His response was: "Yes, if I was abusing them"!

You could imagine what a headline in the local Cardiff newspaper next morning might have been, "HEAD OF CAFCASS ADMITS HE COULD ABUSE HIS OWN CHILDREN"

He might have got away with this response had there not been other fathers ready to pick his up on his words, because anyone in their right mind cannot really "envisage" abusing their own children who they love, or should love of course. I acknowledge in his position he maybe has to look at any parent as a potential abuser, and he must come across so many difficult cases where children do have to be removed from their homes for their safety, and I'm sure they're never easy decisions, (hopefully rare enough, compared to most divorce cases his organisation will deal with though).

In my view there is a barrage of obstacles being placed in the way of decent parents/fathers in the UK, no matter what anyone says to the contrary, and in view of that situation criticising parents isn't something to do without a great deal of thought, (hopefully my last words on this thread!).
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This is a very serious subject and I am happy you brought it up. But I cannot help but laugh at the theoretical headline "HEAD OF CAFCASS ADMITS HE COULD ABUSE HIS OWN CHILDREN". But there it is. Envisioning forfeiting visitation of one's own children or envisioning abusing them. It's simple grammar and what he meant was obvious but as cliches and pop phrases increase so decreases comprehension.

Good job concerning father's rights, by the way! Lord knows we need it. Some day maybe it will come to Sweden. A very quick side note: Abused women in Sweden have the possibility of simply pitching up any time of the day or night at one of the women's centres in town whereas abused men must make an appointment with a psychologist.
 
Sassycakes said:
While me and my husband were driving my Granddaughter to school today I noticed a man driving 3 kids to school and the whole time he was on his cell phone and had it tucked under his chin with his head tilted. What nut drives while talking on the phone. Driving is dangerous enough. Not only was he putting himself and his children in danger but everyone else around him. .....
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That's what I call bad shit. I must be boring everyone with Sweden this and Sweden that ... but what the heck. So I have to tell you that Sweden is the only nation in the EU that has not made telephoning and texting while driving illegal.
Sassycakes said:
..... honestly I don't think he is what I consider a real MAN!
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Nor do I.
 
Verisure said:
It seems rather strange to me that I am being accused of arrogance and/or chauvinism yet I haven’t seen the proof of any crime yet. Is my crime a secret? Is it classified? If you tell me what it is I can probably help you out. You may find that it is neither arrogance nor chauvinism. How can anyone know if you don’t exhibit some proof?
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When did feminism or chauvinism become a crime? Never. You deceive yourself if you belief you are not chauvinist to some degree. Tell us how this manifests in your attitude towards women you are attracted too. Then we can work with the facts.
 
Paco Dennis said:
When did feminism or chauvinism become a crime? Never. You deceive yourself if you belief you are not chauvinist to some degree. Tell us how this manifests in your attitude towards women you are attracted too. Then we can work with the facts.
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If what I think of myself is so important to other people's lives then humanity must be in a world of shit. If you like we can discuss that. We'll begin with you.
 

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