Creativity of Belief: The question of belief is not what but why do we beleive as we do?

Capt Lightning said:
Modern Man didn't just appear. They appeared after many of iterations and improvements over about 2.5 million years. Of course, man wasn't the first life on Earth. From primitive life forms, through marine life, dinosaurs and early mammals, somehow it arrived at Homo Sapiens, and here we are. Of course, it seems very unlikely that we are the only ones. After all there about 100 Billion stars in the Milky way and around 2 Trillion galaxies in the universe.

I can understand ancient man trying to make sense of they could see around them and it was not unreasonable for them to think that they must have been created by a 'god'. . We are but specks of stardust, but day by day, we're learning more and maybe one day we will understand how we came to be here - without having to invent a supernatural being.
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My argument, in order to counter yours, is the significance of any religion throughout human history, (any religion emphasising the needs of all in contrast to, or balancing the interests of one individual), is/was so profound none of us would be here today without it.

If there had never been any religion anywhere in the world, what kind of world would/could have evolved, because all I can see is that every individual ever borne would/should put their own interests above all else in those circumstances. Why would you or anyone else wish to be a "good person", or thought of as a good person, wishing the best for all others, (so far as reasonably practical)?
 

Mr. Ed said:
Perhaps, beliefs are created from life experience. Where if at all does religion play a part in the lives of many? For people who do not believe in a Godlike figure I wonder why or perhaps more profoundly what happened to cause disbelief and possibly resentment?

Mysterious is life and the multiple variations of reasoning that describes us as individuals. As individuals everyone lives according the story they present and the story they disguise sometimes from themselves and from public view.

God is a form people create for themselves for whatever reasons. For some, God is good and God is not good and the consensus that God does not exist. God exists in everyone’s mind according to individual design.

There is no right or wrong way to understand God. Whatever God may be to you God is as you believe.
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Personally I am an agnostic. The universe is vast beyond our understanding. I admit I don't know, how could I, but for some, religion can be a life saving tool. To simply declare the non-existence of a God seems to me to be an unnecessary exercise. Religion can be a vital experience for those who do believe. The old man driving a car full of old ladies to church where they will mingle with dozens of friends. Good or bad? The church soup kitchen that feeds the needy. Good or bad? Both sound good to me. Opposition to Christian beliefs in the US and the developed world has an element that unfortunately should not be discussed in this forum.
 

JaniceM said:
I was going to say if you'd actually read my posts you know that is not what I said..
However, some advice I was given long ago by an Admin of another forum came to mind... he said when someone is clearly trying to pick a fight, trying to bait me into an argument, it's usually better to just shrug it off and walk away from it.

*shrugs.. walks away*
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Oh, so I pose an opposing opinion to yours ...... & you reduce that to me just 'pickin' a fight.

I did read your posts ..... and read it as i saw it , perceived as I did.
 
Mr. Ed said:
"Focusing on a single entity to blame doesn’t make sense to me.

@rgp said "I respectfully disagree. ........ if we are going to praise him for all that is good ? ...... then equally he should be blamed for all that is bad. ........... If he even exsist ?”

God exists, but not in the way you describe God to be. Sure God is recognized as the father figure of existence, but perhaps God is also every living and non-live being in partnership with one another? I cannot explain God but I accept God as I understand my God to be. There is within me a godly spirit who gives me peace and understanding of the world as I see it. I call it God.
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"but not in the way you describe God to be. "

The above is another reason why I do not believe he does ....... IMO a person's perception of what he is , is just too damn convenient.
 
JaniceM said:
Nope, opposing viewpoints are perfectly fine.
But concluding with (quote) <sarc>
shows you were not simply expressing a viewpoint.
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"
But concluding with (quote) <sarc>
shows you were not simply expressing a viewpoint."

In your opinion ...... I disagree.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but Quakers believe all worshiping is relevant to God. key word is God, what God, who God?

God is relevant to the individual. People see and understand differently, my point is everyone who chooses how they believe.
 
Gary O' said:
even the flood....even Sodom and Gomorrah
They were destroyed to keep them from destroying the world

It'll happen again

Not because God is vengeful
Quite the contrary
Because He is merciful
We can't go too much longer how we're going
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Believing it will happen again & believing the reason is due to mercy is nice up until all innocent mankind is murdered.
If that really took place then by the standards of society now, the story about back then having an ark built to house one family & drown the entire population on earth translates to pre meditated murder.

Maybe I have rose colored glasses on but just this site shows me there are a lot of really nice people in our world. I don't know why so many think of nothing but gloom & doom yet eat well, have a home to be able to sit in front of a computer & complain. :(
 
grahamg said:
If there had never been any religion anywhere in the world, what kind of world would/could have evolved, because all I can see is that every individual ever borne would/should put their own interests above all else in those circumstances. Why would you or anyone else wish to be a "good person", or thought of as a good person, wishing the best for all others, (so far as reasonably practical)?
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Primitive mankind lived in groups with a hierarchy, tribes living in jungles the same yet managed to do well without the influence of a religion.
 
Interesting thread; I just discovered it.

From my atheist (or maybe, it's agnostic?) point of view, we have no way of knowing if there is an entity controlling the whole universe. But just from reading a book on astronomy, or watching one of those documentaries you can stream about the universe, and trying to grasp its breathtaking size, it seems obvious to me that if there is a God, it's not a "he," it's not sitting up there in a made-up place called heaven, giving us all scores on whether we've been naughty or nice, it doesn't change things one way or another because we pray, it's not demanding our constant praise, loyalty, and love... and so on! It's not testing our loyalty (God testing Abraham?), rewarding its loyal followers, or punishing those who think otherwise than what's in the books that have been declared "holy" by other human beings. That sounds more like a human tyrant running the show.

My guess is that it is a mathematical equation or a scientific principle, far beyond our comprehension. One theory is that the universe will eventually collapse back into a point with infinite mass, and there will be another big bang, and a new universe will be born. And this continues forever. We cannot really visualize this, so we make up fairy tales and create a God who is very much like a human. But judging by the size of the universe, we are just tiny microbes, fighting to survive on a smallish planet going around a mid-size sun among trillions of other suns.

Most organized religions do this humanizing of God (not all). They contribute nothing to human love, understanding, empathy, cooperation, generosity, or any other good stuff. In fact, a lot more cruelty and hatred is generated by those religions than anything good for mankind. Once in a while, they do good. But they can do this without belief in a deity.
 
Pepper said:
What element is that?
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Hmmm, how shall I put this? Certain large and important elements in contemporary society have taken it upon themselves to define fundamental principles of morality and consequently feel challenged by traditional religious beliefs that conflict with their competing views. Hatred and resentment can ensue.
 
grahamg said:
I still think you're underestimating the importance of religions of one kind or another over millennia, going back before recorded history. :)
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You mean like these in the name of religion are important
Taiping Rebellion- 20,000,000 Deaths (Rank- 6th)

Thirty Years War- 7,500,000 Deaths (Rank 17th)

Madhi Revolt- 5,500,000 (Rank 21st)

Crusades (in the East)- 3,000,000 Deaths (Rank- 30th)

French Wars of Religion- 3,000,000 Deaths (Rank 30th)

War in the Sudan- 2,600,000 (Rank 35th)

Albigensian Crusade- 1,000,000 Deaths (Rank- 46th)

Panthay Rebellion- 1,000,000 Deaths (Rank 46th)

Hui Rebellion- 640,000 Deaths (Rank 66th)

Partition of India- 500,000 (Rank 70th)

Cromwell’s Invasion of Ireland- 400,000 Deaths (Rank 81st)
 
ElCastor said:
Hmmm, how shall I put this? Certain large and important elements in contemporary society have taken it upon themselves to define fundamental principles of morality and consequently feel challenged by traditional religious beliefs that conflict with their competing views. Hatred and resentment can ensue.
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Clear as mud.
 
Knight said:
Maybe I have rose colored glasses on but just this site shows me there are a lot of really nice people in our world. I don't know why so many think of nothing but gloom & doom yet eat well, have a home to be able to sit in front of a computer & complain.
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Enjoy
 
The moment my brother died he suddenly rose up in his bed and his eyes were wide open and bulging. He then fell back dead. I wonder why that happened.
 
fmdog44 said:
So you are saying after death something reveals a falsehood to us? What I meant in my post is any way you look at it like Betty White just said recently "there is only one way to find out."
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If there is a falsehood to reveal it wouldn't be known, would it?
 
fmdog44 said:
The moment my brother died he suddenly rose up in his bed and his eyes were wide open and bulging. He then fell back dead. I wonder why that happened.
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Does the body spasm after death?
The body of a person who dies goes into a state of rigor mortis within two to four hours. During this time, the chemical changes within the body cause the limbs and muscles to stiffen for up to four days. A cadaveric spasm, also called instant rigor, occurs post mortem in rare cases.
How to Distinguish Rigor Mortis From a Cadaveric Spasm
https://sciencing.com › Science › Biology › Human Body
 
Knight said:
You mean like these in the name of religion are important
Taiping Rebellion- 20,000,000 Deaths (Rank- 6th)
Thirty Years War- 7,500,000 Deaths (Rank 17th)
Madhi Revolt- 5,500,000 (Rank 21st)
Crusades (in the East)- 3,000,000 Deaths (Rank- 30th)
French Wars of Religion- 3,000,000 Deaths (Rank 30th)
War in the Sudan- 2,600,000 (Rank 35th)
Albigensian Crusade- 1,000,000 Deaths (Rank- 46th)
Panthay Rebellion- 1,000,000 Deaths (Rank 46th)
Hui Rebellion- 640,000 Deaths (Rank 66th)
Partition of India- 500,000 (Rank 70th)
Cromwell’s Invasion of Ireland- 400,000 Deaths (Rank 81st)
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Why those things may be of evolutionary significance is because the outcomes would obviously affect who was left to procreate and contribute to the future of mankind, but to conflate human conflict directly with religion, "even if every one of those wars was 100% the result of religion" still misses my point about the significance of religion overall in the development of societies where the likes of you and I might one day be conceived.

In Elizabethan times in England it was decreed in law that everyone had to attend the church I believe, adultery was frowned upon to a degree we can hardly imagine now, (even if behind the scenes all sorts went on). You could be sued for "breach of promise" if you failed to marry someone you were engaged to, (because of the impact upon their reputations by your failing them I guess). All of these aspects of life generations ago were of evolutionary significance in my view.

Quote:
"The Elizabethan Recusancy Laws were established due to the 1559 Act of Uniformity of Common Prayer and Administration of the Sacrament in which attendance at church became compulsory and non-attendance was punishable by fine or imprisonment."

https://www.elizabethan-era.org.uk/... Laws were,punishable by fine or imprisonment.

And then there is this:
https://www.elizabethi.org/contents/essays/divorce.htm

Quote:
"In the early modern period, the institution of marriage was seen as almost sacred. Protestant theologians denied that it was a sacrament, but they maintained the pre-Reformation view that it was a holy union ordained by God for the prevention of sin and fornication. It was also seen as the backbone of society. It was believed to be an institution essential for the preservation of law and order, and was seen as a microcosm of society at large. William Gouge, the famous 'conduct book' writer, wrote in his Of Domesticall Duties (1622)

"...a family is a little Church and a little commonwealth."(1)

The breakdown of a marriage was therefore a source of great concern. Not particularly because it meant the relationship between a certain couple had broken down, but because it threatened social stability, and the potential breakdown of social order and hierarchy. The separation of a man and wife was to be avoided at all costs. Couples experiencing marital difficulties were expected to work through them and learn to live with, and love, one another as a husband and wife should."
 

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