How long can the world sustain such huge population numbers ?

[officerripley]

The "invisible hand of the marketplace" was a term coined by Adam Smith, an extremely rational Scotsman.

He also said, "All money is a matter of belief." and "No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable."

 

[Don M.]

It's not a 30 year dip, it's an acceleration of existing trends over 30 years. In 1800 the vast majority of the world lived in extreme poverty -- over 80 percent versus less than 20 percent today.

Everybody hates business and profit, but it's market capitalism that has done more for peoples' lives than anything else. Look at South Korea, unbelievably prosperous today, yet a byword for poverty and backwardness just 60 years ago.

Yes, it's the "industrial revolution", and manufacturing, that has brought most of the world out of poverty, over the past 150 years. However, in the past couple of decades, much of the U.S. manufacturing has been moved overseas...improving the economies of those nations, while losing huge numbers of jobs for our people....all in the interest of increasing corporate profits.

The Only thing that is keeping more of our people from living in poverty is the government deficit spending to support the social programs. When we lose even more productive jobs, what are our people going to do to earn a living??? We can't all be selling insurance to each other, or creating new "aps" for Facebook. A "service" economy can only survive if it has a solid manufacturing base to support it.

 

[JaniceM]

Yes, it's the "industrial revolution", and manufacturing, that has brought most of the world out of poverty, over the past 150 years. However, in the past couple of decades, much of the U.S. manufacturing has been moved overseas...improving the economies of those nations, while losing huge numbers of jobs for our people....all in the interest of increasing corporate profits.

The Only thing that is keeping more of our people from living in poverty is the government deficit spending to support the social programs. When we lose even more productive jobs, what are our people going to do to earn a living??? We can't all be selling insurance to each other, or creating new "aps" for Facebook. A "service" economy can only survive if it has a solid manufacturing base to support it.

Economics was never my strong point, but one of the dumbest mistakes during my lifetime so far is welfare reform. It's backfired in many different ways, including a new category of "poor." When too-young, uneducated, unskilled individuals are forced to Work, they'll continue to need government assistance. And that's only one part of the mess.

 

[Georgiagranny]

Years ago Time magazine did a feature story on zero population growth. ZPG. No problem. Covid is taking care of it.

 

[jerry old]

A frighting topic

 

[Lakeland living]

The comments on birth control made me curious. This is what I found.https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/birthrates-declining-globally-why-matters/
Makes one wonder a lot more about what is going on.

 

[Don M.]

Here's a breakdown of global birthrates. The more developed nations seem to be stabilizing their populations, while the poor nations continue to "propagate" unchecked.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/birth-rate-by-country

 

[Knight]

Given the realization of the population of 7 billion plus & only one of the problems in this article should help with best guessing when.

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...stic,published Thursday in Scientific Reports.

My guess. I give sustainability about 5 more years. It's going to get ugly and go downhill from then on. Why? Resources like fertile ground to produce large quantities of food per acre declining. Raw materials used in manufacturing of all kinds of products declining.

One only has to look at the reaction of people when the virus hit & store shelves emptied to get an inkling of what will take place.

 

[charry]

Who in God's name says that?

Youve missed it then ......it’s well known, that this will happen Jim ....

 

[ElCastor]

Socialist China is the world's biggest polluter.



I don't care if you buy into it or not. Population growth is concentrated in the poorest countries, that's just a fact. You can't invade them and force them to have fewer children. Why not invade China and force them to stop building coal-fired power plants?

Can't invade countries with out of control population growth, but you can refuse to accept their excess population and you can decline to send ship loads of food to feed their starving population. You can also provide them with birth control pills and devices, and the means to make their own. BTW, Even after the end of the one child policy, China's fertility rate is below replacement. Here is where most of the excess population currently comes from. The numbers are fertility rates -- current average births per woman. 2.0 is theoretically stability, but due to death before reproduction, 2.1 - 2.2 is more accurate. Current growth in countries at or below 2.1 (not counting immigration) is due to a wave of female births before a recent slow down.

1	Niger	6.91	2021 est.
2	Angola	5.90	2021 est.
3	Congo, Democratic Republic of the	5.70	2021 est.
4	Mali	5.63	2021 est.
5	Chad	5.57	2021 est.
6	Benin	5.47	2021 est.
7	Uganda	5.45	2021 est.
8	South Sudan	5.43	2021 est.
9	Somalia	5.41	2021 est.
10	Burundi	5.10	2021 est.
11	Mozambique	4.89	2021 est.
12	Guinea	4.89	2021 est.
13	Liberia	4.84	2021 est.
14	Afghanistan	4.72	2021 est.
15	Guinea-Bissau	4.72	2021 est.
16	Nigeria	4.67	2021 est.
17	Sudan	4.66	2021 est.
18	Zambia	4.63	2021 est.
19	Cameroon	4.61	2021 est.
20	Sierra Leone	4.58	2021 est.
21	Tanzania	4.45	2021 est.
22	Congo, Republic of the	4.41	2021 est.
23	Burkina Faso	4.39	2021 est.
24	Timor-Leste	4.32	2021 est.
25	Togo	4.28	2021 est.
26	Central African Republic	4.09	2021 est.
27	Ethiopia	4.07	2021 est.
28	Equatorial Guinea	4.02	2021 est.
29	Senegal	3.97	2021 est.
30	Zimbabwe	3.91	2021 est.
31	Ghana	3.71	2021 est.
32	Madagascar	3.70	2021 est.
33	Sao Tome and Principe	3.69	2021 est.
34	Eritrea	3.65	2021 est.
35	Cote d'Ivoire	3.60	2021 est.
36	Mauritania	3.59	2021 est.
37	Gaza Strip	3.54	2021 est.
38	Pakistan	3.53	2021 est.
39	Malawi	3.51	2021 est.
40	Rwanda	3.42	2021 est.
41	Kenya	3.36	2021 est.
42	Gabon	3.36	2021 est.
43	Iraq	3.32	2021 est.
44	Egypt	3.23	2021 est.
45	Gambia, The	3.13	2021 est.
46	Libya	3.13	2021 est.
47	Yemen	3.10	2021 est.
48	Namibia	3.03	2021 est.
49	West Bank	3.02	2021 est.
50	Jordan	3.00	2021 est.
51	Lesotho	2.95	2021 est.
52	Solomon Islands	2.92	2021 est.
53	Philippines	2.89	2021 est.
54	Comoros	2.86	2021 est.
55	Tuvalu	2.86	2021 est.
56	Syria	2.85	2021 est.
57	Tonga	2.81	2021 est.
58	Guam	2.81	2021 est.
59	Marshall Islands	2.81	2021 est.
60	Papua New Guinea	2.79	2021 est.
61	Oman	2.73	2021 est.
62	Vanuatu	2.72	2021 est.
63	Guatemala	2.67	2021 est.
64	Belize	2.66	2021 est.
65	Northern Mariana Islands	2.66	2021 est.
66	Nauru	2.65	2021 est.
67	Israel	2.57	2021 est.
68	Laos	2.57	2021 est.
69	Algeria	2.55	2021 est.
70	Kyrgyzstan	2.52	2021 est.
71	Eswatini	2.48	2021 est.
72	Tajikistan	2.48	2021 est.
73	Haiti	2.48	2021 est.
74	Samoa	2.46	2021 est.
75	Bolivia	2.45	2021 est.
76	Botswana	2.42	2021 est.
77	Cambodia	2.36	2021 est.
78	Faroe Islands	2.30	2021 est.
79	Morocco	2.29	2021 est.
80	Fiji	2.28	2021 est.
81	India	2.28	2021 est.
82	American Samoa	2.28	2021 est.
83	Micronesia, Federated States of	2.27	2021 est.
84	Kuwait	2.25	2021 est.
85	Venezuela	2.24	2021 est.
86	Dominican Republic	2.23	2021 est.
87	Kiribati	2.23	2021 est.
88	Panama	2.21	2021 est.
89	South Africa	2.20	2021 est.
90	Argentina	2.20	2021 est

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/total-fertility-rate/country-comparison

 

[Irwin]

Can't invade countries with out of control population growth, but you can refuse to accept their excess population and you can decline to send ship loads of food to feed their starving population. You can also provide them with birth control pills and devices, and the means to make their own. BTW, Even after the end of the one child policy, China's fertility rate is below replacement. Here is where most of the excess population currently comes from. The numbers are fertility rates -- current average births per woman. 2.0 is theoretically stability, but due to death before reproduction, 2.1 - 2.2 is more accurate. Current growth in countries at or below 2.1 (not counting immigration) is due to a wave of female births before a recent slow down.

1	Niger	6.91	2021 est.
2	Angola	5.90	2021 est.
3	Congo, Democratic Republic of the	5.70	2021 est.
4	Mali	5.63	2021 est.
5	Chad	5.57	2021 est.
6	Benin	5.47	2021 est.
7	Uganda	5.45	2021 est.
8	South Sudan	5.43	2021 est.
9	Somalia	5.41	2021 est.
10	Burundi	5.10	2021 est.
11	Mozambique	4.89	2021 est.
12	Guinea	4.89	2021 est.
13	Liberia	4.84	2021 est.
14	Afghanistan	4.72	2021 est.
15	Guinea-Bissau	4.72	2021 est.
16	Nigeria	4.67	2021 est.
17	Sudan	4.66	2021 est.
18	Zambia	4.63	2021 est.
19	Cameroon	4.61	2021 est.
20	Sierra Leone	4.58	2021 est.
21	Tanzania	4.45	2021 est.
22	Congo, Republic of the	4.41	2021 est.
23	Burkina Faso	4.39	2021 est.
24	Timor-Leste	4.32	2021 est.
25	Togo	4.28	2021 est.
26	Central African Republic	4.09	2021 est.
27	Ethiopia	4.07	2021 est.
28	Equatorial Guinea	4.02	2021 est.
29	Senegal	3.97	2021 est.
30	Zimbabwe	3.91	2021 est.
31	Ghana	3.71	2021 est.
32	Madagascar	3.70	2021 est.
33	Sao Tome and Principe	3.69	2021 est.
34	Eritrea	3.65	2021 est.
35	Cote d'Ivoire	3.60	2021 est.
36	Mauritania	3.59	2021 est.
37	Gaza Strip	3.54	2021 est.
38	Pakistan	3.53	2021 est.
39	Malawi	3.51	2021 est.
40	Rwanda	3.42	2021 est.
41	Kenya	3.36	2021 est.
42	Gabon	3.36	2021 est.
43	Iraq	3.32	2021 est.
44	Egypt	3.23	2021 est.
45	Gambia, The	3.13	2021 est.
46	Libya	3.13	2021 est.
47	Yemen	3.10	2021 est.
48	Namibia	3.03	2021 est.
49	West Bank	3.02	2021 est.
50	Jordan	3.00	2021 est.
51	Lesotho	2.95	2021 est.
52	Solomon Islands	2.92	2021 est.
53	Philippines	2.89	2021 est.
54	Comoros	2.86	2021 est.
55	Tuvalu	2.86	2021 est.
56	Syria	2.85	2021 est.
57	Tonga	2.81	2021 est.
58	Guam	2.81	2021 est.
59	Marshall Islands	2.81	2021 est.
60	Papua New Guinea	2.79	2021 est.
61	Oman	2.73	2021 est.
62	Vanuatu	2.72	2021 est.
63	Guatemala	2.67	2021 est.
64	Belize	2.66	2021 est.
65	Northern Mariana Islands	2.66	2021 est.
66	Nauru	2.65	2021 est.
67	Israel	2.57	2021 est.
68	Laos	2.57	2021 est.
69	Algeria	2.55	2021 est.
70	Kyrgyzstan	2.52	2021 est.
71	Eswatini	2.48	2021 est.
72	Tajikistan	2.48	2021 est.
73	Haiti	2.48	2021 est.
74	Samoa	2.46	2021 est.
75	Bolivia	2.45	2021 est.
76	Botswana	2.42	2021 est.
77	Cambodia	2.36	2021 est.
78	Faroe Islands	2.30	2021 est.
79	Morocco	2.29	2021 est.
80	Fiji	2.28	2021 est.
81	India	2.28	2021 est.
82	American Samoa	2.28	2021 est.
83	Micronesia, Federated States of	2.27	2021 est.
84	Kuwait	2.25	2021 est.
85	Venezuela	2.24	2021 est.
86	Dominican Republic	2.23	2021 est.
87	Kiribati	2.23	2021 est.
88	Panama	2.21	2021 est.
89	South Africa	2.20	2021 est.
90	Argentina	2.20	2021 est

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/total-fertility-rate/country-comparison

Africa seems to be having a population explosion. What's driving that?

 

[Packerjohn]

Mother Nature has her own ways of reducing a species from overpopulating her space, perhaps covid is her doing.
Just a thought, I'm no expert.

Timoc, I agree 100%. I have said it before, when animal populations get too large then a disease comes along to kill of the excise population. Covid is a good example for homo sapiens. I have said this often. The future wars will be over food and water. There is not enough for everyone. The leaders of this world are hiding their heads in the proverbial sand. More people means more consumers. It also means more wars, larger and larger cities, less and less wildlife, more crime, more of everything bad and less and less of green space. We are paddling up that smelly river and we ain't got no paddle, pilgrim!

 

[officerripley]

This subject reminds me of a blurb for a movie a few years ago: "If the leaders of the countries of the world knew that the world was ending, how would they inform the population? They wouldn't."

 

[Alligatorob]

you can refuse to accept their excess population

Hasn't worked out real well so far. I am not sure it ever will.

 

[hollydolly]

Timoc, I agree 100%. I have said it before, when animal populations get too large then a disease comes along to kill of the excise population. Covid is a good example for homo sapiens. I have said this often. The future wars will be over food and water. There is not enough for everyone. The leaders of this world are hiding their heads in the proverbial sand. More people means more consumers. It also means more wars, larger and larger cities, less and less wildlife, more crime, more of everything bad and less and less of green space. We are paddling up that smelly river and we ain't got no paddle, pilgrim!

...but Covid isn't doing it, w're now too fast with medical technology for something that would have wiped out half the population a hundred years ago..even 50 years ago...

 

[JimBob1952]

Youve missed it then ......it’s well known, that this will happen Jim ....

I would like to see sources, citations, etc. Not references to "they say."

 

[peppermint]

They do have to feed and clothe those children as they grow. I really don't totally buy into the, "I'm too poor not to have a whole bunch of children," theory. It only takes one to care for them in their old age.




Not too many religions still insist their members have lots of children. Even strict Catholics are allowed to use the rhythm method.

My Catholic in-laws had 12 children, 45 grandchildren by the time they died and now, 20 years later all those grandchildren are having babies. All that from two people who were soooo proud of themselves. I thought it was shameful.

It's really none of your concern....

 

[JimBob1952]

It wasn't the fact of population and poverty going together that I didn't buy into it was your statement that because they were poor they had to have lots of children to survive. I didn't suggest we force them to have fewer children either, where did you get that idea?

I've been poor with a baby. We didn't have any insurance and every pre-natal doctor's visit was a financial struggle, I'll never forget the doctor's receptionist yelling at me in front of everyone because my bill wasn't caught up. After he was born it took four years to pay off the hospital.

The nurses at that hospital told me I was the first person in thirty years to breast feed, I didn't tell her that the main reason was that I wanted to make sure the baby wouldn't starve if we couldn't afford formula. I also remember the back breaking work of washing diapers in the bathtub because we didn't have a washing machine and hanging them on the line only to watch them blow off in the dirt because I didn't have clothes pins. The very last thing that came to my mind was, "What would make things better would be to get pregnant again!"

You're confusing life in the West with life in a really poor country. They don't worry about the price of formula in Sierra Leone.

 

[JimBob1952]

Yes, it's the "industrial revolution", and manufacturing, that has brought most of the world out of poverty, over the past 150 years. However, in the past couple of decades, much of the U.S. manufacturing has been moved overseas...improving the economies of those nations, while losing huge numbers of jobs for our people....all in the interest of increasing corporate profits.

The Only thing that is keeping more of our people from living in poverty is the government deficit spending to support the social programs. When we lose even more productive jobs, what are our people going to do to earn a living??? We can't all be selling insurance to each other, or creating new "aps" for Facebook. A "service" economy can only survive if it has a solid manufacturing base to support it.

I'm not buying it. Some manufacturing jobs have been moved to lower cost locations. Many new "information age" jobs have been created here. Unemployment rates are at historic lows, in fact we are begging for workers -- and not just manual workers but workers of all kinds. It's not more "productive" to stamp tin plates in a factory than it is to write software for Workday.

 

[JimBob1952]

Skilled trades (plumbing, welding, electricians etc) are experiencing the biggest shortages of labor, btw.

 

[ElCastor]

Africa seems to be having a population explosion. What's driving that?

That is a difficult question. There are a variety of reasons. Ones I would rather not discuss. Basically it's economic and social. Why don't US, South Korean, and Italian women have 6, 8, or 10 children? The same factors don't apply in Africa.

 

[Della]

You're confusing life in the West with life in a really poor country. They don't worry about the price of formula in Sierra Leone.

Food insecurity is a problem around the world. A nursing mother needs an extra 1000 calories. I went down to 103 pounds at the time. So I imagine the mothers in parts of the world where they don't worry about the price of formula do worry about the price of food.

 

[Della]

It's really none of your concern....

I would think over population should be the concern of every person who lives on this planet. In fact everyone discussing it on this thread seems concerned about it so I wonder why you singled out me to scold?

 

[Paco Dennis]

Why would a planet -- a collection of rock, water and gases -- seek "revenge?" People don't take a rational approach to these problems.

The capitalist food industry disagrees. Here is a make believe propaganda ad that let's us know not to mess with nature. Millions of deaths caused by tobacco, sugar, and oil products reveals, if not revenge, then terrible unnatural consequences.

 

[JimBob1952]

The capitalist food industry disagrees. Here is a make believe propaganda ad that let's us know not to mess with nature. Millions of deaths caused by tobacco, sugar, and oil products reveals, if not revenge, then terrible unnatural consequences.

My suggestion, then, would be that you rely on a socialist food industry to deliver the goods. It works really well in places like Venezuela and North Korea.